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Hey guys, just a couple of Qs today:


1) Can Jetbikes (and eldar jetbikes) deep strike? I was under the impression that they could (and a sentence in the eldar etbikes designer's note says "even if they arrived by deep strike") - but I can't actually find permission for jetbikes to do this in the deep strike rules - can anyone help me out with a reference?

2) Say you have an independant character charging into a combat, and also a second unit with no characters in it. If a challenge is issued by the charged unit, is the IC forced to accept as there is no one else in his unit? Or does the presence of the other unit allow him to refuse? Really not sure on this one.

3) Had this debate on our local forum.

"Necrons over here are very tough to beat in this mission (the relic). A unit grabs the relic, jumps into a night scythe, which automatically crashes, sending the unit into reserve. This doesn't trigger any of the conditions for the unit to drop the relic, so it would seem that it goes into reserve with them.

Can anyone come up with a solid rules argument that prevents this, or is just another little boost for the tin men?"



So assuming that all the models dont die, the relic + model holding it goes back into reserve lol.

I disagree with the quote - I was under the impression that the relic had to be put into B2B with a model if that unit is not in a transport. Also, nothing expressly allows the relic to leave the table (or move back onto it either). But I'm finding it difficult to argue with the logic here. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance Dakka.

Iirc, Jet bikes cannot normally deepstrike. The brb just wanted to cover all it's bases with the deepstrike comment because there are all kinds of special scenarios where anything can deepstrike, like planet strike for example.

For number 2, the IC does have to accept as he is by himself and not attached to the unit that charged in with him.

For number 3, I never considered that and I have no idea.

If the unit that charged in with the IC has a character in it that character can take the challenge instead.

As for the teleport win, it seems that it is allowed but super broken. The rules don't seem to have an issue with it. HOWEVER, I would check and see if the model that is holding it has to survive the crash, if it must survive then there could be a chance the relic is left in b2b with the crashed ship.

For number 3. A flyer can't zoom with the relic as it auto crashes. Crap was going to say, you can't put the relilc in the flyer because of that, but in this case it is a "good" thing to have happen.

I think the intent of the rule was to not let flyers be able to make this easier to when, and it backfired badly in this case.

I think you have to go to the last rule on the Relic mission and the rule about falling back for this. If the Relic is dropped in impassable terrain move it to the the closet point were it is not in impassable terrain. This would either be by the crashed flyer or the board edge, case could be made for both, since the Necron unit is nominally falling back (going in to reserve) and moving more than 6 inches it drops the relic .

For the challenged IC, note that he is only forced to accept because he hasn't yet formally joined the unit. If no challenge were issued, he would be able to refuse in his following turn.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
If the unit that charged in with the IC has a character in it that character can take the challenge instead.

As for the teleport win, it seems that it is allowed but super broken. The rules don't seem to have an issue with it. HOWEVER, I would check and see if the model that is holding it has to survive the crash, if it must survive then there could be a chance the relic is left in b2b with the crashed ship.

IF the model dies it does drop the relic, so that is at least one way it has to drop the relic.

Challenges are issued to a unit in assault. so in this case if the IC is not joined to the second unit before the charge the then the Character in that unit is unable to accept the challenge for the IC. Pg 64 under issuing and accepting challenges. the text is bolded in the BRB about it being a character in the unit challenged.

Challenges are issued to "the foe at large" (p64). In your scenario, only the IC is able to accept or refuse the challenge, since the 2nd unit has no characters. Since the IC is in a unit by himself "Heroic Stand" kicks in, and he must accept.

The use of the flyer-relic stunt is very limited, it's only a 1/6 chance the model will survive and be placed in reserves. 5 out of 6 times you would have lost a valuable flyer and a troop.

barnowl wrote:


IF the model dies it does drop the relic, so that is at least one way it has to drop the relic.

Challenges are issued to a unit in assault. so in this case if the IC is not joined to the second unit before the charge the then the Character in that unit is unable to accept the challenge for the IC. Pg 64 under issuing and accepting challenges. the text is bolded in the BRB about it being a character in the unit challenged.

Misread the OP and yes in that case the IC is going to have to challenge it up but to barnowl... NO.
As has been said challenges are issued in general, if I have a massive multi-assault mess on my table any the assaulting player may issue a challange and only 1 of the characters in the mess has to answer it. It doesn't matter if it's a grunt sergeant or Mephiston only 1. You cannot choose the character your opponent will accept the challenge with unless there is only 1 character.

So - "so the model carrying the Relic cannot Run and can never
move more than 6" in any phase. If it is forced to do so, the
Relic is immediately dropped."

When a flyer zooms, even though it crashes the model was forced to move over 6" so the relic should be dropped.

 Super Ready wrote:
For the challenged IC, note that he is only forced to accept because he hasn't yet formally joined the unit. If no challenge were issued, he would be able to refuse in his following turn.

No he wouldn't. You can't join a unit that is locked in Combat, so while the combat is ongoing they will remain separate units. As long as a challenge is issued he will have to accept, provided no other character accepts before him.

 liam0404 wrote:
2) Say you have an independant character charging into a combat, and also a second unit with no characters in it. If a challenge is issued by the charged unit, is the IC forced to accept as there is no one else in his unit? Or does the presence of the other unit allow him to refuse?

Page 64: CHALLENGES: Accepting a Challenge: 'If your opponent issued a challenge, you can now accept it - nominate one of the characters in your unit to be the challengee.'

Page 64: Heroic Stand: 'A unit that consists of only a single character cannot refuse a challenge.'

There is no requirement in a multiple combat to respond to a challenge with a unit that has a character. You can get around Heroic Stand, or Challenges for that matter, by responding with the unit that has no characters. I do not like this.

That's not true. You have to nominate a character to accept the challenge - if a unit has no characters you cannot elect to accept the challenge with it.

 Kevin949 wrote:
So - "so the model carrying the Relic cannot Run and can never
move more than 6" in any phase. If it is forced to do so, the
Relic is immediately dropped."

When a flyer zooms, even though it crashes the model was forced to move over 6" so the relic should be dropped.

But does he drop it before or after he's put back into reserve? Which effect is resolved first, dropping the relic, the scythe exploding, or putting the embarked Necrons back in reserve? I know how I would play it (relic gets dropped, scythe explodes, remaining 'crons back in reserve) but I can't think of any kind of rules support for this conclusion, it's just the least broken.

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not true. You have to nominate a character to accept the challenge - if a unit has no characters you cannot elect to accept the challenge with it.

In a single combat with two units, this would be true. I can find no requirement in the challenges section on pages 64-5 or the multiple combats on 27-8 that a player has to respond with a unit that has a character. If there is, please tell me.

Actually the flying transport is prohibited from moving more than 6" so the relic would not in fact be dropped as it is not moving more than 6". It may be dropped for other reasons, such as death but it will in fact not move over 6 ".

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not true. You have to nominate a character to accept the challenge - if a unit has no characters you cannot elect to accept the challenge with it.

In a single combat with two units, this would be true. I can find no requirement in the challenges section on pages 64-5 or the multiple combats on 27-8 that a player has to respond with a unit that has a character. If there is, please tell me.

That's because units don't respond. You choose your response first, accept or reject. If you reject the challenge, your opponent chooses one of your characters to hide. If you accept, you choose a character to accept. At no point do you nominate a unit as part of the response, so it's not possible to nominate a unit to accept and have it all fail because the unit has no character.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not true. You have to nominate a character to accept the challenge - if a unit has no characters you cannot elect to accept the challenge with it.

In a single combat with two units, this would be true. I can find no requirement in the challenges section on pages 64-5 or the multiple combats on 27-8 that a player has to respond with a unit that has a character. If there is, please tell me.

4th paragrah, second line in bold on page 64, "nominate on of the characters in your unit.....", you do have to respond with a character as only characters can answer or decline challenges. However, it does indeed seen to indicated that you can respond with any character from any unit to a challenge.

Actually for the relic it does not restrict the flyer from moving more then 6", it just says if the vehicle moves more them 6" it is dropped

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
So - "so the model carrying the Relic cannot Run and can never
move more than 6" in any phase. If it is forced to do so, the
Relic is immediately dropped."

When a flyer zooms, even though it crashes the model was forced to move over 6" so the relic should be dropped.

But does he drop it before or after he's put back into reserve? Which effect is resolved first, dropping the relic, the scythe exploding, or putting the embarked Necrons back in reserve? I know how I would play it (relic gets dropped, scythe explodes, remaining 'crons back in reserve) but I can't think of any kind of rules support for this conclusion, it's just the least broken.

Ub3rb3n wrote:
Actually for the relic it does not restrict the flyer from moving more then 6", it just says if the vehicle moves more them 6" it is dropped

It is clear in the section stating "Dropping the Relic" that if it is dropped whilst in a vehicle you place it 1" away from any access point so it would go like this: Move flyer, flyer moves more than 6', reaction: relic drops, reaction: being forced to stop --> wreck. as stated in "Moving with the relic"

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not true. You have to nominate a character to accept the challenge - if a unit has no characters you cannot elect to accept the challenge with it.

In a single combat with two units, this would be true. I can find no requirement in the challenges section on pages 64-5 or the multiple combats on 27-8 that a player has to respond with a unit that has a character. If there is, please tell me.

You quoted it in your rules. Units don't respond, characters do. You have no permission to "elect" a characterless unit to respond to (and decline) the challenge. The single character is required to accept because he's the only available target for the challenge.

Of course if you really want to start an argument, you could always claim that since the Necrons don't disembark from a crashed Nightscythe, they technically cannot user their special rule, and must be placed on the table. Definitely not RAI however.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally, even if the relic went into reserves, if it is there when the game ends, then no one would control it, as the unit it is with is destroyed.