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Well, first post I have ever made on Dakka Dakka.

And as alluded to in the subject, I am new to the hobby (began during the summer of this year), but am very much immersed and wishing to learn quickly.

As I've pored over the vast amount of painting tutorials on the internet, I've seen a lot of sprayguns. It seems that with this expensive tool, you can accomplish things that are far more difficult with a mere brush. Thus, my question is two-fold:

1) How much of a difference has a spraygun made for you? OR, if you don't have one, how much of a difference do you feel it WOULD make for you if you had one?

2) What would you consider to be a reasonably priced spraygun that I wouldn't regret purchasing?


Glad to be here, looking forward to learning from you all.

Spraygun...airbrush...or something different?

Semantics perhaps - but it is important in order to avoid confusion.

Normally a spraygun is used to cover larger areas with a single color of paint and not too much detail work without the aid of masks of one form or another.

An airbrush however is generally best suited for small amounts of paint in small areas (granted most miniatures qualify as small areas).

You can see some structural differences between the two - airbrushes tend to be held like a pen while sprayguns tend to be held like a gun with a pistol grip, though there is crossover between the two with some airbrushes having pistol grips and some sprayguns having a grip which is more like a brush or pen.

All of that said, I use many of both types and I would have to say that they are probably more valuable to my painting than any of the other paint related tools which I own. They allow me to paint faster with smoother coats and less time spent doing touch up work than my best sets of traditional brushes.

It helps if you have the space and means to set up a dedicated area to use your tools in though. I know some people who own an airbrush or spraygun who do not use them much at all. Largely it is because they have to setup their compressor, move stuff out of the way for their workstation, dig out the hoses and hook everything up and finally do a little bit of painting. After that it is more of the same in reverse as they clear the area to allow their kids to do their homework or make room in the laundry room for doing chores.

For me though, I have a dedicated booth with a airsupply manifold that has several different brushes hooked up at all times. The compressor is hooked up and the tank is full and ready to spray some paint. When I want to work with them, I merely have to turn on the exhaust fans, turn on the lights and figure out what paint I want to spray. When I am done, I spray a bit of cleaner through my brushes and leave them where I found them. As such, I don't have to think about the hassle if I only want to prime one miniature or if I need to use an airbrush to apply a difficult color like yellow.

As far as what to buy - you will find a lot of different opinions on that from cheap Chinese knockoffs to a variety of somewhat pricey brands like H&S. Since reasonable isn't a very helpful term in that regard - all the input will be as valid as all others and without knowing how much you are willing to mess around with your tools to keep them in running order a specific recommendation is hard to give.

You can find additional information in addition to the advice you will no doubt get here on these sites:

http://www.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showreviews&secid=15 (look at the airbrushing categories for reviews of different brushes)

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/

After that - figure out a budget, figure out how much you are willing to deal with (do you want to go ahead and deal with cleaning and lubing the brush on a regular basis) and finally see if you can find one which you can hold in your hand.

That last bit can be a bit of an odd one at first glance, and quite often it isn't relevant but I know of two particular cases where I have seen the actual design come into play. The first is with regard to people with small hands. My wife has a hard time gripping a couple of my brushes because they have a somewhat taller than normal trigger. On those, she needs to use two hands - one to grip the brush and the other to operate the trigger...something which looks to be very awkward.

The other issue is with people with large hands. A friend of mine can only comfortably use trigger grip guns and brushes. His hands are so large that he can not comfortably hold a pen grip brush. Although the trigger grips are still tiny in his hands, they provide more meat for him to grab a hold of - so as a result he likes brushes like the Tritium TG and Iwata TR brushes.

i think your talking about airbrushes?
or spraycans?

good starter airbrushes are about 80 dollar i think (dont really know the usa prices) and would be the starter brushes from companies like badger...

personally i would really recommend badger airbrushes or go for german quality and get a harder & steenbeck. those 2 have the easiest airbrushes to disassemble, clean and assemble

Wow, very helpful information. Thank you very much. That tells me a ton... really answers all of my questions, actually.

And yes, I had wondered if there was actually a difference and ignored my better judgment to ask. Thank you both for bearing with me on that. I now realize that I what I do, in fact, mean is an airbrush.

I would suppose what I am willing to spend, at least to start with, is between $100-150.

Thank you both again for your input.

well for 80 dollars you can get an airbrush, you can get a chinese knock off for about 15 dollar but those are pretty crap... but good enough to get the hang of airbrushing, but once you get a "real" AB you will see the real shortcomings of the chinese replica...

you will still need a compressor... and those will be about as expensive as an airbrush... i personally recommend getting a compressor with at least a small air tank... it will release the stress from the compressor and will serve as a first moister trap, but adding a real moister trap is also recommended

Okay, now my question(s) are as follows:

1) What's a good place to learn the terminology you are using (not familiar)?

2) What is a moister trap?

The answer to 1 may cover 2.

also dont forget to get a dual action airbrush! this is probably the biggest piece of advice anyone can give you. I ignored this piece of conventional wisdom and bought a cheap single action. its pretty much a spray can with no control. the whole point of getting an airbrush is to have more control over what you are doing (and faster...)

also it takes a lot of practice (painting fine lines, etc) to get the hang of. Its a tool thats well worth the effort in the long run and wish I had gotten one years sooner than later.

Just don't forget its another tool to painting great models, you'll never put down your paintbrush or any other tool you aquire over time.

 themeremortal wrote:
Okay, now my question(s) are as follows:

1) What's a good place to learn the terminology you are using (not familiar)?

2) What is a moister trap?

The answer to 1 may cover 2.

Not sure which terminology other than moister trap you are interested in finding out what it is - but there are several sites which have "airbrush glossaries" on them. The best one will be the one which explains them in a manner which you understand - some people like to see it in pictures, others like analogies, I am also not sure on your background...so a specific recommendation can be hard. I think Don has one on his site - and most manufacturers and many retailers have them on their sites...so as they say, Google it.

Regarding the moister trap specifically - it is a bit of a typo for moisture trap. When air is compressed and subsequently expanded, water vapor in the air condenses and can be released into the air stream. These water droplets than travel up your line and can be released with the paint in spits and sputters which can ruin a paint job. The moisture trap is placed between the compressor and the airbrush and catches the water droplets either in an expansion chamber and catch or through media which is designed to trap water and moisture from the air. The media is the better option in terms of performance, though it does need to be maintained. Over time, the small pellets become saturated and can hold no more water - however most of it can be refreshed simply by cooking it in the oven at a specific temperature for 10 or 15 minutes to drive the water out. Living in exceptionally humid Florida, I have to do that a couple times a month when I am using my airbrush on a regular basis.

Paitryn wrote:
also dont forget to get a dual action airbrush! this is probably the biggest piece of advice anyone can give you. I ignored this piece of conventional wisdom and bought a cheap single action. its pretty much a spray can with no control. the whole point of getting an airbrush is to have more control over what you are doing (and faster...)

Unless you don't need or want a double action brush.

The choices are really going to be based on the individual. Single action brushes work fine for a lot of people. Many of them just want a spray can that they can load up with whatever paint they want. Also, single action does give you control - though not as much as you have with a double action brush.

Probably half the people who I talk to are interested in getting an airbrush in order to prime, base and clear coat models - often in order to avoid the issues relating to rattle cans and humidity/temperature, though also in order to get the ability to spray colors and paints which are not readily available in rattle cans.

For those people, a simple single action - external mix brush like the Badger 350 is what they will want. It is easy to get a handle on and maintenance is simple and straight forward. The spray pattern is largely fixed - though normally you can choose a few different nozzles that can allow for more broad or more fine painting. External mix brushes also have an added benefit as the manner in which they work means that when the air speed over the nozzle drops to the point where a vacuum is no longer created to pull paint into the airstream the flow of paint also will stop. This prevents problems with sputtering paint flow that happens with rattle cans when you stop spraying.

Next up in terms of control would be the Single Action - Internal mix brushes like a Badger 200. The Badger 200 has a needle to control the flow of paint and spray pattern like you find in a double action brush, but it is not controlled with the trigger. The needle is adjusted with a screw on the back of the brush which allows you to open it more or less depending on whether or not you want to do fine lines or large areas. Because it is internally mixed, the pattern is more consistent and you can operate at lower pressures. The biggest practical downside to brushes like these is that you get paint which collects near the nozzle when the air flow is shut off so it can lead to a bit of splatter when you start back up again. Although it does have an internal cavity which needs to be cleaned, the maintenance and parts are simpler than a double action - internal mix brush which needs to have regular care regarding the needle internal seals.

Finally you have the double action - internal mix brushes. Because these add something different to the mix, they have a greater learning curve compared to a single action brush. Because those just have a single control point to them, there is a good comparison to be made to things which most hobbyists are familiar with when they start looking at airbrushing. With the double action brush, you push the trigger down to open the flow and you pull back in order to start the paint. When you finish your stroke, you move the trigger forward to shut off the paint and then you stop the airflow. This prevents the splatter that can happen from paint left in the nozzle area and makes doing things like darts and fades easier. They have more moving parts, especially more moving parts which are in contact with paint so you will need to do a bit more work in keeping them clean and in working order. It isn't too bad, but for some people it is more than what they want to deal with.

Some of the newer double action brushes have began to integrate the best of both. They realize that most people won't use the double action function for actually working but understand the advantage of clearing the paint from the nozzle area. On those brushes, the trigger is a simple front back motion - however the first portion of the action starts the airflow and after you have pulled the trigger back about 25% of the way, the paint flow begins. When you stop spraying, the tail end of the stop clears the paint from the nozzle area for the next stroke. Because of this, they have a reduced learning curve and somewhat reduced level of control because both the airflow and the paint flow are tied together.

A lot of single action brushes get a bad name because of the cheap plastic ones which are sold by some companies (including GW's spraygun). Those have issues both because of the way they are designed (often the trigger control is a plastic clamp which pinches a bit of surgical tubing) as well as inferior tooling that leaving chunks of plastic in the airstream of the nozzle that can clog or create funky spray patterns as the air is deflected off to one side or another.

If you are realistic with what you plan on doing with your airbrush from the start - you can avoid a lot of hassles later on. A double action brush may be overkill and break your budget compared to getting a descent single action brush with a spray booth and good compressor. If you really think you need a double action brush right now, chances are better than not that you will then actually want a high dollar one in order to get the level of control and consistency in painting that a bonifide need for double action brushes demands.

 themeremortal wrote:
Okay, now my question(s) are as follows:

1) What's a good place to learn the terminology you are using (not familiar)?

2) What is a moister trap?

The answer to 1 may cover 2.

I think he means a moisture trap, to take the water out of the air and stop it interacting with your paint or your airbrush. Obviously more of a problem if you are spraying enamels.

For the rest of it, it mainly boils down to single or dual action, internal or external mix, suction fed or gravity fed, and which nozzle and needle you use.

Single action means you only control the amount of paint going through the airbrush, dual action allows control over how much air you are using too.

Internal mix means the air/paint is combined inside the airbrush, harder to clean but generally considered to be the better system. External mix means the air stream pulls the paint into it outside the airbrush. Easier to clean, but almost all fine work airbrushes are internal mix.

Suction fed means the paint is in a container below the airbrush and is sucked up to the tip by the lowering of pressure as the air is blown past the end of the tube that sits in the paint. Gravity fed airbrushes have the paint at the same level, or a little higher, so the paint is pushed towards the nozzle.

For example, the GW spraybrush is a (Very) basic external mix, single action, suction fed airbrush. Very easy to clean, very hard to work with except for base coats, undercoats, and varnishes. (And I've heard it's not that good a quality either!)

You will get a more even flow of paint with a well controlled dual action gravity fed brush than with any other type and these are generally considered the best airbrushes to use. Getting that control is no easy task, however. You will need lots of practice at getting the right distance to the object you are painting, and keeping the airbrush at a right angle to the surface, not easy given some of the things we paint.

Buy and watch this DVD by Airbrush Action magazine, Robert Benedict was one of the top custom airbrush artists of his time. It shows him painting 2 skulls in a circle the size of a quarter, then goes on to produce 23 in a circle the size of a Dime! The DVD also includes excercises to practice and tips on how to improve your technique.

https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?products_id=2970

honestly spending 80$ on an airbrush right off the bat might not be the best option. (hear me out) if I were you id buy a one of the cheap knock offs from china, practice and learn with it. i mean it sounds crazy but you dont learn to drive stick shift/manual in a Lamborghini.

i spend 15$ on mine and have never needed to upgrade because im happy with how well it works (able to paint these GK weps) and this was my first time using the airbrush. (at the time)


http://imgur.com/DFpiQ

its been almost 6 months with it now and my skill i feel has doubled if not tripled with it.

what i will say is tho should invest in a good compressor that hopefully isnt too loud (this can be an issue depending where you live) for me i only air brush during the middle of the day just so i dont piss off my neighbors. just my 2 cents on it. i mean if you want to jump head first into a big investment go ahead, i would just hate for you to do it. then find out its not for you and feel like you wasted your money.

 Conrad Turner wrote:
Buy and watch this DVD by Airbrush Action magazine, Robert Benedict was one of the top custom airbrush artists of his time. It shows him painting 2 skulls in a circle the size of a quarter, then goes on to produce 23 in a circle the size of a Dime! The DVD also includes excercises to practice and tips on how to improve your technique.

https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?products_id=2970

I had picked that up years ago - thought it would have gone out of production when he passed...good to see it is still available. You can also get some useful information from fingernail airbrush videos (both DVDs and on sites like YouTube). They tend to be more accessible just because there are more people doing that than their are doing the "micro airbrushing" of models.

Thank you all very much. You all put a lot of time and thought into your responses, and that is greatly appreciated. I'm sure what has been posted here will help me make a good decision.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, I have one last question that I can't seem to locate an answer to right off the bat:

Must all paints for an airbrush be thinned using a thinner (that is, something chemically-based rather than just water)?

I see several acrylic paints as an option for use with an airbrush, but no clarification as to whether those paints still require anything besides clean water to thin them.

Any insights, general or specific, would be greatly helpful.

Generally my understanding is that

1. Vallejo Model Air are pre-thinned and don't require further thinning unless using some high end techniques.

2. Even when thining with water, a flow aid or surface tension adjuster may be necessary. (Acrylic medium, or small drop of washing up liquid to allow the droplets to be small enough for even coverage without pooling and running off.)

Both the above points are not hard and fast rules. Try something out and if it's too thin, add a little washing up liquid before trying to add more paint and see if that works.

Also, don't forget to keep shaking the paint in the airbrush. Even as you use it, pigment is settling to the bottom of the cup, so you need to keep re-distributing it or you will get thicker and thinner sections on your models.

Ah! That all makes sense.

What are some common examples of a flow aid or a surface tension adjuster?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if I use this:

http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-Regulator-FREE-HOSE/dp/B001BJFHAW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=31LJ3ZYPUF1GU&coliid=I1N2D2PP84XOA8

will I need a tank for it as well?

The purpose of the tank is to prevent air 'hiccups' that can occur when the compressor kicks on and off. Air pressure changes whenever the compressor starts and stops, an air tank helps maintain a steady pressure. The compressor can rest without running all the time, only starting to maintain the pressure in the tank.

Not only are there potential "hiccups" when the compressor starts and stops, there is often a degree of pulsation while it's running. Since many are piston driven, air is pushed through the hose in tiny pulses. If painting a fine line, it's possible to see regular variations in thickness as the pressure pulses, so your line looks like this (--o--o--o--o--o--) instead of this (--------------).

Air tanks will negate pulsation completely, but moisture traps and even the hose itself act like tanks, to a degree, smoothing the pulsation, so a tank isn't an absolute necessity. If mostly spraying larger surfaces, minor pulsation isn't an issue. Personally, I haven't noticed any pulsation at all, even using a cheap, tankless Harbor Freight compressor. This is partially due to using a 10' hose and partially due to using a cheap brush to spray (relatively) large patterns at high(ish) pressure.

A tank also eases the burden on the compressor, itself, which doesn't have to cycle on as frequently, since it can run at a higher pressure to fill the tank then rest as the air is used up slowly, thanks to the tank-side regulator.

Even if doing more detailed work using a brush with tighter tolerances, many hobbyists get by just fine without a tank. If you think you're really going to take to airbrushing, though, it's worth getting the good stuff right out of the gate (much like with the brush) to avoid duplicating equipment in the upgrade process, which costs you more in the long run.

Personally, I imagine a mid-range tankless compressor would do you just fine, as it does the majority of us. Considering your posted "starter" budget, something like the HF compressor sounds right up your alley, as it gets the job done reasonably well and leaves you enough funds to shop around a bit for the brush, itself, either shooting for the higher end knockoffs or the lower end of the trusted names.