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Hi Dakka,

So my wife just got off the phone with her mum in the Philippines and it turns out my house has been burgled. Not much taken, mostly because we are in the UK at the moment so all our tech stuff (TV, PS3 etc etc) are with my mother-in-law, but I feel somewhat dirty. Even though I'm something like 6000 miles away!
A quick discussion with the wife and we have decided to buy a gun for home defence when we go out there again. Now being a wet British guy, I feel a little nervous about this but I guess if our house has been targeted once it could be targeted again.

So I'm turning to you American Dakkanauts to helpe out here, as I know diddly squat about guns. What's best for home defence? A few pointers, I'd like something that I can take to my local Gun Club at least 3 times a week (to get my aim in), I'll have a budget of around $500. I don't even know if that's enough tbh!

Thanks in advance guys!

What are you "allowed" under phllipines law on the type of fire arm you can legaly have

edit
all weapons can be for left hand shooters to

I most recently fired a .38 revolver. Simple to use and fun. Can't jam. There better not be more than six of 'em you have to shoot though, otherwise you'll have to laugh the last two to death.

A 9mm will run you between one and two hundred, and then is the issue of whatever licenses you would need.

Its an easy to use gun, the ammo is cheap, and you can buy it just about anywhere, but it can lack stopping power. Meaning placement is everything.

a .45 will give you more assurence of stopping what you hit but will be more expensive.

I hear good things about .38 revolvers too, plus they look badass.


Of course it entirely depends on whats avaliable in your area as that will effect price.

For your budget, a 9mm would probably be whats in your price range.

Ok, after a quick bit of Google-fu, basically I can buy anything as long as I can prove its for home defence or target shooting...

Really, I'm looking for a reliable, accurate pistol. Any ideas?

Edit: Thanks for the quick responses guys, in the time it's taken me to find out about gun law in the Philippines you guys have come up with some good answers already!

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Hi Dakka,

So my wife just got off the phone with her mum in the Philippines and it turns out my house has been burgled. Not much taken, mostly because we are in the UK at the moment so all our tech stuff (TV, PS3 etc etc) are with my mother-in-law, but I feel somewhat dirty. Even though I'm something like 6000 miles away!
A quick discussion with the wife and we have decided to buy a gun for home defence when we go out there again. Now being a wet British guy, I feel a little nervous about this but I guess if our house has been targeted once it could be targeted again.

So I'm turning to you American Dakkanauts to helpe out here, as I know diddly squat about guns. What's best for home defence? A few pointers, I'd like something that I can take to my local Gun Club at least 3 times a week (to get my aim in), I'll have a budget of around $500. I don't even know if that's enough tbh!

Thanks in advance guys!

1. You need to thoroughly vet the rules of your location (Phillipines?). Assuming there are no issue there, you need to answer a few things.

1. Pricing $500-check. This slightly limiting but not unreasonably so. Again where you get it matters in regards to influencing price.
2. Are you looking at a specific category-long gun/shotgun or pistol? If pistol do you like something like an automatic (think evil German with evil Luger) or revolver (think evil cowboy with evil six gun)
3. Self defense only or other things as well (target shooting, hunting, general plinking)?
4. Just you or something both you and wife can easily use?

At $500 there are some moderately priced pistols, especially 9mms I'd steer you to in the US. You have a plethora of shotguns from your basic all purpose hunting shotgun to something obscenely tacticool, all wel; within $500. In the Phillipines you might be able to get a ahold of cheap AK types but I really really don't know.

Now this is scary to hear from me, but think before making a purchase. A weapon will not stop a burglary when you're not home, and if you have one and pull it you'd better be of a mind to use it.

My father-in-law and I both agree; for home & personal defence (usually 6 to 10 ft) look at a Taurus Judge series revolver.
Automatics are cool, but have jamming/stovepiping issues, while revolvers are more reliable.

They are chambered for .45 long colt and .410 shotgun shell. We recommend the latter.
Federal Arms makes a self-defence round that has a few buckshot topped with what looks like watch batteries. In a few of our field tests, these are devestating. Even if you just catch an arm on your assailant, dont expect him to make it very far.

Keep in mind; a dead man cant sue. Of course his family can; but it's much less damning.

For home defense, I'm a fan of Beretta's series of 9mm pistols. You really don't need much more than a pistol. I'm not much of a pistol shooter myself, but I have a friend who owns a Beretta 92 FS (about $650) and it's got to be one of my favorite pistols. If you want something cheaper, there is the Beretta Px4 Storm, full size, 9mm (about $575). I've not used it, but it looks very good and solid and undoubtedly carries Beretta's fantastic craftsmanship.

I cannot stress enough that before purchasing a firearm, you understand how they operate, how to use, clean and care for them and that you get all of the required licenses and permits.

For homedefense, the ability to load it quickly and aim it is whats important. That last thing you want to be doing is fumbling with your gun while a potentially armed person is invading your home.

Maybe find some people that have different handguns so you can try out what feels best in your hands. Something you are comfortable with. Both shooting, loading, and maintainance.

A revolver may not be best for your own personal style of shooting, it may be clumsy to load for you. Speed loaders are good but can require practice to be as fast as a magazine. The same for a magazine weapon, it may not jive with you.

1. You need to thoroughly vet the rules of your location (Phillipines?). Assuming there are no issue there, you need to answer a few things.

1. Pricing $500-check. This slightly limiting but not unreasonably so. Again where you get it matters in regards to influencing price.
2. Are you looking at a specific category-long gun/shotgun or pistol? If pistol do you like something like an automatic (think evil German with evil Luger) or revolver (think evil cowboy with evil six gun)
3. Self defense only or other things as well (target shooting, hunting, general plinking)?
4. Just you or something both you and wife can easily use?

At $500 there are some moderately priced pistols, especially 9mms I'd steer you to in the US. You have a plethora of shotguns from your basic all purpose hunting shotgun to something obscenely tacticool, all wel; within $500. In the Phillipines you might be able to get a ahold of cheap AK types but I really really don't know.

Now this is scary to hear from me, but think before making a purchase. A weapon will not stop a burglary when you're not home, and if you have one and pull it you'd better be of a mind to use it.

Ok, I can answer a few of these now, I'll be using the gun primarily for Home Defence, however I'll also be taking it to my local Gun Club in Makati at least 3 times a week whenever I'm out there (6-8 weeks a year). It would have to be a gun that my wife could use also, when we go out to the Philippines we are not always together. A shotgun I think is out, mostly because my wife would never be able to wield it properly.
The budget is flexible, it could be as much as $850-$1000. My thinking is you can't put a price on your family's safety. Another thing to bear in mind is that we almost always have kids staying with us in the form of nieces and nephews, so a digital gun safe of some form is an absolute must...

I know I'm british and young but I know a small amount of gun knowledge small mind you.

FN Five Seven would be a good bet, reliable a big clip size accurate low recoil and is often used for target shooting, so able to get in by the laws there.

But I think it's a bit more expensive, but can you put a price on safety and coolness?

You said exactly what I said, I just looked and I think it's about $1000.
It has enough stopping power to be a sure kill if hit but not so much it would go through your house.

I think it's accurate up to 50m or so.
Hoped a brit helped

FN Five-seveN is WAAAAY overkill. It's designed for armor-penetrating capabilities, not stopping a regular thug.

 InquisitorVaron wrote:
I know I'm british and young but I know a small amount of gun knowledge small mind you.

FN Five Seven would be a good bet, reliable a big clip size accurate low recoil and is often used for target shooting, so able to get in by the laws there.

But I think it's a bit more expensive, but can you put a price on safety and coolness?

I sure can.

Ok second post attempt.
1. As noted, go to a store or club and try some out. Thats your best bet.
2. Autos: Beretta 92 and Sig 226 are excellent at about $600. Both are rugged and accurate. Both can be shot by your wife (my daughter and wife both love the Beretta).
Smith and Wesson also has the M&P which ways less for $500-$550. It has more capacity and is stainless steel which may be important in a high humidity environment. Of course there is Glock as well at about the same price point.

Also 45s. The Phillipines makes their own dirt cheap .45 ACPs via Rock River Arms (and another one who's name escapes me). The Rock River is very cheap but a good no nonsense boom stick. By local!

Revolver: I'd look at a .357 which can be loaded with .38 specials but will kick even less because they are heavier. Taurus, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson are good guns

I thought it depended on the round used for its armour penetration skills?

 InquisitorVaron wrote:
I thought it depended on the round used for its armour penetration skills?

The FN is firing a small bullet at high velocity. One of the originally intents of the design (first for the newest generation of tacticool CQB weapons and not a pistol actually) was armor and cover penetration. PLus they are damned expensive - both the weapon and the ammo.

 InquisitorVaron wrote:
I thought it depended on the round used for its armour penetration skills?

It does, it only uses the one bullet design which it shares with the P90. You can't get a "dummed-down" version of that bullet. Essentially, it's a round the size of a pistol round in the shape of a rifle round, thinner and elongated so that it can slice through body armor more effectively. I've seen some newer polymer-tipped ammunition in various calibers that claim to offer similar perks anyway. I still don't see the point of a civilian owning armor-penetrating ammo though, to me it's just stupid.

Ninja'd

EDIT: another problem I have with that ammo is the potential for collateral damage, the bullet has a good chance of going "through-and-through" a soft target and maintaining a decent speed, if that happens or you happen to miss your target and the bullet hits a wall, it will probably go straight on through where it has the potential to injure innocent bystanders.

If the ammo costs a bit then scrap that idea, I imagine you'd like to fire this weapon for fun since otherwise it's redudant until that unlikely intent.

Glock 18 with Illuminated sights and small underbarrel light? Overkill again? Just thought it would be useful considering most home intrusions would be at night.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Ok, I can answer a few of these now, I'll be using the gun primarily for Home Defence, however I'll also be taking it to my local Gun Club in Makati at least 3 times a week whenever I'm out there (6-8 weeks a year).

From personal experience, I think that a shotgun fits this requirement the best. However you immediately followed up with:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:It would have to be a gun that my wife could use also, when we go out to the Philippines we are not always together. A shotgun I think is out, mostly because my wife would never be able to wield it properly.

I think that you are either overestimating a standard shotgun, or are underestimating your wife. Shotguns, as noted this is from personal experience, are the ideal when it comes to home defense. Even my tiny sister can proficiently wield a shotgun. Her aim might not be the best, but who cares? Its a shotgun! Because shotguns by their nature have less punch to them, you limit the risk of hurting anyone else who might be in the house, and putting bullets through multiple walls. Pistols, and even more likely rifles, can very easily punch through walls, especially if they are rather thin, and can risk hitting a different individual in the house. A shotgun's spray will cause damage in the area it is pointed, which would most likely be the unlucky thug in front of you, and it is unlikely that they will cause anything beyond superficial damage to your house. I have experience using both in warding of bandits (God Bless Texas Castle Law), and I am very much in favor of shotguns being the ideal firearm for both home defense and sport.

Now that being said, Frazzled's suggestions are absolutely important, and you should definitely do your best to follow them. Be careful though, I am sure Fraz would also suggest that you invest in an army of killer wiener dogs as the ultimate method of defense. Don't listen to him though, he has just become their mindless pawn!

In all seriousness though, before you go out and purchase a firearm, I suggest you try to find some sort of opportunity to go and test fire several weapons, and take your wife if at all possible. This could be a great excuse to come on down to Texas for an "educational" vacation!

 JEB_Stuart wrote:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Ok, I can answer a few of these now, I'll be using the gun primarily for Home Defence, however I'll also be taking it to my local Gun Club in Makati at least 3 times a week whenever I'm out there (6-8 weeks a year).

From personal experience, I think that a shotgun fits this requirement the best. However you immediately followed up with:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:It would have to be a gun that my wife could use also, when we go out to the Philippines we are not always together. A shotgun I think is out, mostly because my wife would never be able to wield it properly.

I think that you are either overestimating a standard shotgun, or are underestimating your wife. Shotguns, as noted this is from personal experience, are the ideal when it comes to home defense. Even my tiny sister can proficiently wield a shotgun. Her aim might not be the best, but who cares? Its a shotgun! Because shotguns by their nature have less punch to them, you limit the risk of hurting anyone else who might be in the house, and putting bullets through multiple walls. Pistols, and even more likely rifles, can very easily punch through walls, especially if they are rather thin, and can risk hitting a different individual in the house. A shotgun's spray will cause damage in the area it is pointed, which would most likely be the unlucky thug in front of you, and it is unlikely that they will cause anything beyond superficial damage to your house. I have experience using both in warding of bandits (God Bless Texas Castle Law), and I am very much in favor of shotguns being the ideal firearm for both home defense and sport.

Now that being said, Frazzled's suggestions are absolutely important, and you should definitely do your best to follow them. Be careful though, I am sure Fraz would also suggest that you invest in an army of killer wiener dogs as the ultimate method of defense. Don't listen to him though, he has just become their mindless pawn!

In all seriousness though, before you go out and purchase a firearm, I suggest you try to find some sort of opportunity to go and test fire several weapons, and take your wife if at all possible. This could be a great excuse to come on down to Texas for an "educational" vacation!

Agreed. Hand on testing is the best way to see what you like.
Now on the dog front OF COURSE a pack of ravaging wiener dogs are alway option A. Plus you'll never have to worry about badgers again.

You want a weapon for home defense that your wife can also wield safely and effectively, hmm? May i suggest pepperspray and/or a stungun/taser? That isnt a slam against your wife/women, as it also applies to you. If your house is being burglarized and you or your wife pull out a firearm... are you going to have the nerve to pull the trigger and end the life of another? If the answer is anything other than "Yes, absolutely" then the gun isnt for you, because if you dont pull that trigger then there is a very good chance that you will end up arming what might have otherwise been an unarmed attacker and making the situation more dangerous for yourself than it originally was. You really cannot rely on the presence of a weapon as being a deterrent, in most cases it will be but in some cases it wont.

Have you considered getting a dog instead? As others have pointed out, a bazooka won't help you if you aren't home.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
What's best for home defence? A few pointers, I'd like something that I can take to my local Gun Club at least 3 times a week (to get my aim in), I'll have a budget of around $500. I don't even know if that's enough tbh!

I've been saving this thread for myself all day...mmm savor.

I'll start to answer your question by not answering your question at all.

What gun is the best for home defense?

The one you shoot well enough to not be a hazard to yourself, your family, and innocent bystanders. Which generally speaking means a gun you will shoot a lot and fits you well.

I have a budget of $500.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and you can get an awful lot of gun for that but let me give you a piece of unsolicited advice. Spend what it takes to get the gun you want. If you shoot on a regular basis, and by that I mean significantly less than 3x a week. The cost of ammunition alone will outstrip the price of the firearm in no time. It doesn't even matter how much you shoot or how expensive the gun is. Over it's lifetime it will cost you more in ammunition and training/range fees than the gun ever will. With the obvious exception of ridiculous guns like say Conneticut Shotguns hummingbird, or a Holland and Holland (although over its life its conceivable it might hold true.)

Don't limit yourself.

There are pages and pages and pages of advise on what gun is best for blah blah blah and a lot of really smart people giving good opinions; none of them are you. When push comes shove it's you with your boogersnatcher on the goswitch if there's a bad guy in your house. I've listened to and participated in countless discussions,arguments, and fistfights about the effectiveness of birdshot in home defense, 9mm vs 45, long vs short barrels, 308 vs 260, who genitals are larger, semi auto vs pump, etc. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what DirtyHarry762 thinks if you are comfortable with a drilling rifle for home defense by all means give him the little bullet, the big one, and the shot.

If I were you I'd go out and buy a 22 pistol. Probably the Ruger 22/45. Although virtually any accurate magazine fed 22 will do. Shoot it as often as you can afford to. When you have achieved competency with it start looking for a 9mm. 22s are great for a lot of things but you can develop bad habits in rimfires that will not overly affect your skills but will be magnified to devastating effect once you move to centerfire. Keep shooting the 22, but build your skills on that 9 until you are at least equally competant. In a pinch either will work in Home defense, any gun is better than none at all.
If that doesn't fit your fancy, but you have a good idea what style,brand, caliber, or size you want I can probably steer you to the right place...gunz is kinda my thing.

First piece of advice- Don't accept advice from anyone calling a magazine a "clip".

Second piece- the best firearm to defend yourself with is one that you can hit the target with.

Take it from me, metal violently going inside you hurts. Caliber matters little in most circumstances.

My recommendations for you to research for combination home defense + shooting range fun are:

Springfield rifles (Socom II if you can find a nice civilian version), and this will be fun for the Mrs to shoot as well
1911 3.5 in variants
Baby Eagle .40
Any shotgun.
W PPK or PPK/S
B 92F

Edited so many times because I take this seriously.

Thanks for all the great advice guys, Im gonna take it all in and have a chat with the missus and work towards finding a suitable means of protecting ourselves and our family.

As for the question of 'Could you pull the trigger when faced with a real person?'....The answer is unequivocal, its yes. If that person is in my house, without my permission and trying to harm/steal from my family I will put him down..If that means buying a Taser to stun the bastard, a big dog to chew on his baps for a while and a .38 to finish the job then so be it!

If you meet a little resistance with the missus, I'd suggest warming her up to a standard Schnauzer. They are highly trainable and their bark is intimidating and deep (even the females are unique in that their voices are as low as the males). The females are great with kids and the "dog" route may be the key to unlocking your home-defense lifestyle with the missus.

The best home defense is multiple defenses.

If it's purely for home defense, I'll echo the shotgun recommendations.

Whatever you end up getting, take a class. Then take another. Then take as many as you can afford. I'll take $1000 worth of training behind a $50 gun over $50 worth of training behind a $1000 gun any day.

You might want to look in to Rock Island Armory, they're a manufacturer local to the Philippines the specializes in the 1911 using Colt Original Machines and guides. I got one in the U.S. for approx $400 + Shipping/Transfer fee and that pistol has never steered me wrong before. Couple hundred rounds of quality ammo, and a couple hundred rounds of garbage russian plinking ammo and never had a misfire.

My big piece of advice is to go to a gun store and "try" a couple guns on, have the missus get a feel for the grips as well. You want a pistol that is most comfortable in your hand, whatever that might be.

12 gauge double barreled shotgun, let whatever little is left of the intruder just try to sue you. On a serious note though, I'm with the revolver crowd for what i consider is a good home defense weapon (followed by the 12 gauge as a close second)

Some good advice there from those two ^

Revolvers are great for reliability.

The best firearm is the one you are the most comfortable with. End of story.


A well-practiced, comfortable firearms wielder will be far more deadly to his target with only a .22 than some tacticool poseur with a red dot sight on an assault rifle.


I consider the 1911 to be the best handgun ever made; and I think most firearms instructors will recommend it as a good "learner" handgun because its kick is pretty soft, despite the .45 ACP cartridge's good stopping power.






EDIT: I must've missed his post, but you should listen to AustonT.