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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

To view the previous report in this series, click here. To view the next report in this series, click here. To view more battle reports in The Hand of the King series, click here.

To view the tactical overview for this report, click here.


***


The rain was pouring down as if someone had overturned a bucket of water. Lightning flashed immediately overhead, the concussive blasts of thunder slamming into everyone below. It was as if the sky had been stabbed in the neck, its lifeblood violently ejected.

The gale sent a tidal wave into Melchoir's eyes, blinding him and making his uniform flap wildly. He desperately struggled just to remain upright in the storm. Everywhere was grey, and water, and chaos. The officer shouted at his men, but his words were obliterated by another peal of thunder that forced him down to the ground instinctively.

He desperately slipped on the muddy ground as the wind nearly knocked him off of his feet. It wasn't even a matter of keeping discipline now. It was a matter of surviving against nature. Melchoir desperately attempted to wipe his eyes free of the downpour. He could scarcely see anything.

Before him, he could make out the ruins of a building, its broken, jagged form spiring up into the rain. He scrambled to attempt to make it to cover. As he approached, he lost his footing on some rubble, causing him to fall over. His hand reached out and found a piece of a twisted steel pipe to grab onto to try and keep his footing. The wind blew him around like a kite. The deluge made it difficult to do anything at all.



In a blinding flash, lightning hit one of the ruined buildings near him. The concussive blast of the thunder knocked him down into a window well. The officer flopped into the ruined building.

The lack of wind and rain was a shock to his body. His muscles ached as they strained against forces no longer attacking him. Water was pouring in through the cracked window well like a faucet, sending a steady stream into his helmet and armor.

Melchoir scrambled over to where some of his guardsmen were cowering in the storm.

Several of them were huddling in around the priest, who was situated under the remains of some floorboards. The officer made his way over.

"Did you see it?" Sanario shouted over the deafening roar of water slamming into the ground, and whipping around their heads.

"I don't know!" the officer shot back.

"It's right in front of us! We have to move out!"

"Like hell we do!" Melchoir shouted.

The priest got up, gently pushing some of the guardsmen to the side. He squatted face to face with the officer.

"This is the most important thing you will ever do in your life, Melchoir Theleos!" Sanario shouted over the storm, "The whole crusade here hinges on it!"

"I don't even know what 'it' is! I don't have orders to do anything! I don't intend to do anything in this!" he shouted. The air was lit up by a strobe of lightning. Thunder crashed into the ruins a half second later.

"You don't need to know. You just need to do."

Melchoir stared blankly at his priest. What was even going on here?

Another surge of wind pounded into them, the blast screaming through the ruined windows and knocking the officer down to one knee. The gravel soup gave way beneath him. The priest reached out to steady the officer.

"Trust me!" Sanario shouted, "Have faith."

Melchoir scowled, "Just what do you think your purpose here is, Sanario? I'm the one in charge here. I'm the one who is responsible for making it work EVERY TIME. What are you? You can't tell me -"

"Melchoir!" came a shout from the lascannon team bravely weathering the storm from what was left of the upper floor of the ruin. "Melchoir! I think there's something out there!"

"War is for soldiers and officers," Melchoir finished, "not for old men with an attitude."

Melchoir looked out into the storm. The torrent of rain made visibility all but impossible. He strained his eyes as more water poured into them.

Wait, there. He thought he could see it.



"We've got something out there!" Melchoir shouted to whoever could hear him, "Hold your fire until they close!"

Slowly, the enemy tanks in front of him continued to slog their way forward through the storm. Melchoir could hardly believe it. What was so valuable that the enemy thought it worth while to attack in all of this? The russes struggled as their massive bulk sunk into the sopping ground. They were barely making any progress. It was pure insanity.

Some of the rubble gave way in front of the guardsmen, causing water to pour in through the gap. A small pool quickly began to form as a few more rocks gave way. The wind and the rain lashed on the tanks upfield. Their tracks desperately spun as the lumbering behemoths tried to get traction.

"We've got to go!" Sanario shouted, still stinging from the rebuke. We have to get the relic before the enemy does! We'll make it faster on foot than they will on tread!"

"Get what?" Melchoir angrily demanded, "What relic?"

"I can't tell you, but it's important," Sanario replied.

As the enemy tanks rounded the corner of a collapsed wall, they suddenly began to open fire. Massive gatling cannons poured out a flaming stream of hot lead that nearly put the storm to shame. Back and forth, the laser-like deluge of chaingun fire swept slowly across the field.

The beam raked over the ruin, sending a hundred shots slamming into the building, shaking it violently. The guardsmen cowered against the awesome display of rate of fire. Bits of dust and rubble collapsed in, causing even more water to gush in from above.

As the fire lifted, it displaced down onto a group of conscripts that were hiding out in the storm. Immediately they began to shout in panic as the beam of gunfire sliced through them like a knife through butter. Desperately, those who weren't instantly made a casualty attempted to flee for better cover.

The lascannon teams scattered around began to return fire into the driving rain. They could scarcely see their targets, so they fired for the muzzle flash of the spinning cannons on the tank turrets. One shot rang out, and then another. Anti-tank fire began to return against the tanks. Whether or not they were having any effect was impossible to tell.

"Melchoir!" the priest shouted.

"No!" the officer shouted back.

Another flash of lightning lit up the air followed by another deafening crash of sound. The officer looked up. Water gushed into his eyes from the clouds above. He blinked away the stinging and tried to shield his face.

Could it be possible?

A second bolt of lightning followed in quick succession after the first. As the thunder washed over him, he could see dark shapes floating against the sky. There were aircraft up there!

"What?" Melchoir shouted incredulously. What could possibly be so important that it was worth FLYING through this?

He looked down and could see that one of the aircraft had dropped off some enemy soldiers right in front of his lines.



The enemy fliers hovered around the guardsmen on the ground. Without warning, they began to open fire. Lascannons and heavy bolters strafed down into them. The men on the ground desperately attempted to take cover. The rain poured into their faces as they attempted to look up at their assailants. Lightning flashed. Thunder boomed.

Then, from the side, another enemy tank opened up. This one had managed to move undetected through the storm, only to make its presence known as its punisher cannon spun up to speed and began to rip a long, loud steam of shots into the side of the ruins. The building began to quake. Guardsmen began to get ripped apart.

The enemy was everywhere. Melchoir didn't know what to do.



"Melchoir!" Sanario shouted.

The officer looked down at the priest.

"Melchoir, the enemy is taking the relic!"



"Not now!" the officer shouted back. "Everybody! Return fire! Bring those fliers down!"

Lascannon volleys began to trade back and forth between the heavy weapon gunners on the ground and the fliers who were somehow being able to stay airborne in the straightline winds. The vehicles bobbed up and down, left and right, while their shots strafed across the top of the ruins.

With any luck at all, they all just might be able to survive. The storm would give them cover from the aircraft.

"Melchoir Theleos!" Sanario shouted, pointing into the storm, "The enemy is getting away! We have to assault them!"



"No! We! Do! Not!" Melchoir shouted in return, practically screaming into the priest's face.

The clergyman remained unmoved.

"I don't know who you think you are," Melchoir seethed, wiping rain off his face, "But I'm in charge here!"


***

Dammit, his long-wave vox was completely dead.

The sentinel pilot could scarcely believe it. There he was, driving through the middle of a hurricane and thunderstorm combined, in a giant metal walker. Worst off, the vehicle was open-topped.

The sentinel struggled to make headway against the driving winds and endless gushing of rain. The sentinel's cab was half-filled with water. The pilot had been trying to desperately bail out his vehicle while keeping it moving forward, but it was little use. He was now swimming in hit seat. He was certain he was going to get electrocuted soon.

He flicked the switch on his vox set to short wave. A loud snap shot a few sparks at his face. The pilot flinched as his electronics completely died.

"Dammit!" the pilot shouted at the storm. He looked over at the two other sentinels in his squadron. The others were likewise desperately attempting to keep their vehicles operable as the walkers struggled in the mud and the drivers struggled with the controls. There was water everywhere.

The sentinel pilot steeled himself. He didn't know for certain what his mission was, but he knew well enough to understand that it was going to be worth whatever hardship he was going to have to face. Plus, he was in recon. Doing the worst jobs in the worst possible weather was pretty much at the top of his job description. He'd been through worse before, if not by much.

The vehicle began to slip and skid as the articulated legs struggled to stay upright in the mud. The pilot reached down between his knees and threw back a small lever. At least the mechanical systems still worked, even if his electrical ones didn't.

The sentinel's actuators instantly stiffened as the tension line was drawn back. The pilot gave the vehicle everything he had, and the walker began to jerk and hop forward. Slowly and erratically, the vehicle managed to scramble up the side of a low earthen berm.

The pilot turned and looked behind him, the downpour lashing at his face. Behind him, both of the other sentinels were likewise struggling with the slope. One of them managed to get up while the other's legs kept locking up, causing the vehicle to slide down the hill. He squinted through the rain. He really, REALLY hoped he wouldn't need to break out his tow cable.

The lagging sentinel gave it one final push and just barely managed to clear the earthworks.

The sentinels continued on through the driving rain. The pilot took one hand off the controls to loosen his actuators again. Floating on the top of the water in his cab between his knees was his mess kit. He took a moment to bail a few cups of water before continuing forward again.

Then, right overhead, a pair of valkyries flew overhead. FLEW, in this weather. The sentinels picked up the pace as the fliers came down to drop off their cargo. They could just make it out through the whipping cascade of water. It was Kingsguardsmen!



More flew overhead and dropped in. The sentinels could just see it now. Right in front of them, some enemy tanks had just begun to open fire at something in front of them as they struggled with the mud.

They could see flashes of light as some of the stormtroopers rushed in to attack the tanks from the rear with their meltaguns and krak grenades.

It was to no effect, though.

The tanks began to traverse their turrets around to handle the new unseen threat, spinning around in the mud to bring hull weapons to bear.





With insane firepower, the tanks let into the stormtroopers with their gatling guns. The brilliant spray lit up the millions of raindrops cascading around them.

The stormtroopers desperately began to scatter in the face of the awesome power of the retaliatory strike.

"All right, boys!" the pilot shouted, as if anyone could hear him over the driving rain and the punisher cannons, "Lets get 'em!"

The three sentinels moved in out of the storm for the kill.



With lascannons blazing, they rushed the back of the nearest tank. One of the shots burst clean through the turret, sending punisher cannon barrels spinning off and killing the tank commander instantly. Another burst of energy ripped through one of the side sponsons.

The tank began to groan and creek as it began to pivot to meet its new threat. More lascannon shots bounced off the front armor as the massive vehicle turned. Its own lascannon fired and hit the sentinel in front of it, the shot punching through one of the vehicle's legs and slamming into the other.

The sentinel pilot shouted angrily at the battle tank. He twisted the cab to realign his cannon. The air split open as he threw another shot into the front of the vehicle. This time, it hit the lascannon mounting, punching through into the vehicle itself. He could just barely see smoke beginning to emerge from the engine block.

The pilot attempted to turn his sentinel, but it was no use. The actuators had been shot clean through. He waved at the other members of his squad. They would have to go on without him. The other two got the message and began to try to find new targets in the storm.

He looked up and could see even more aircraft who were insane enough to brave the impossible. These appeared to be those of the enemy, though, and they were shooting down into some presumably friendly ground units.



The two other sentinels raced forward and tried to engage them only for another flier to swoop in and fire down on them with its lascannons. In a pair of catastrophic explosions, the two other sentinels blew up in a blaze of horrible glory. The sentinel pilot winced as the enemy aircraft swooped overhead and out of sight.

He looked forward. From a nearby ruined wall, someone was firing a flame thrower at someone else. As the blaze cascaded down, lasgun fire started to go back and forth.



Wind and rain slammed into the sentinel pilot.

Well, there was one thing that was certain, he wasn't going to be doing anything in a junked walker. He reached down and picked up his mess kit. It was now floating on a pool of water that was up past his navel. He flicked a few switches to power down his sentinel, and then used his arms to push himself up out of his seat.


***

"I don't know who you think you are," Melchoir seethed, wiping rain off his face, "But I'm in charge here!"

"Not now!" the priest replied.

"What?" Melchoir shouted.

Sanario leaned in and grabbed the officer by the collar. His scowling face came in almost close enough to touch. He looked the officer straight in the eyes.

"Melchoir Theleos, you are a part of something now that you can not fathom, much less begin to understand. You and your troops are going to go forward and they are going to seize that relic. Your life depends on it, and so does your soul."

"What are you-"

"Silence! You will obey me - a sanctified servant of the God-Emperor and of his servant, the king of Folera. I have orders from higher than your faithless mind will believe. Whatever personal fear or delusion of power you have right now, stay it from your thoughts.

You may think me an old man with an attitude, but I am more than you think, and I am telling you now what needs to be done."

Melchoir stared at the priest in shock.

From behind them, reinforcements were arriving, having been drawn to the battle around them.



Rain poured down on the two of them, water pouring down their faces and off of their armor.

"You heard him!" Sanario shouted to those nearby, "We're moving out, let's go!"

"Where are we going?" Melchoir managed to stammer.

"Come on, men, CHARGE!" was his only reply.


***


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/10 07:10:23


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

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Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

That dude had 4 Punishers...wow.

Honestly he deserved that win for sheer ballsiness.
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




Lurker for some time, but now I decided to post because your battle reports have inspired me: I'm a new player and I decided to play with mostly infantry, really few toys, and spamming lascannons like there's no tomorrow.

IMHO you should field a ADL with a quad-gun. Seems you're having a lot of trouble with flyers, and I found that against my opponents' flyers at my local gaming store massed fire simply doesn't work. Simply put, without Skyfire weapons I have to put way too much firepower to bring down just one flyer; as a IG player most of the times I win because I outgun my opponent, but if I have to use so many weapons to bring down just one unit I no longer have the advantage. I read somewhere that you don't want to field Vendettas, IMHO Hydras are a waste of points if your opponent doesn't field flyers while a quad-gun could still be useful against light armour and infantry. By the way with an ADL your opponent will find more difficult to kill your infantry, more protection for lascannons means that they will fire longer and, hopefully, do more damage to the enemy.

Really, try an ADL next time. It's cheap, it's useful, it will take care of those flyers.
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant






4 punishers and 2 vendettas?

I have a solution...
Spoiler:
37 lascannons

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 02:56:26


"We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey" Commandant Pat Quinlan 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





6th edition is not about objectives. At the end of any 6th edition game, one side is dominated so completely that holding objectives aren't what actually wins games any more. That's why you're seeing people minimize Troops and go for offense. Scoring just barely matters anymore.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in nz
Pauper with Promise




Was that list tailored for yours?

Just find it hard to see a player taking 4 punishers in a TAC list.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





McKenzie, TN

Ailros can you check your dice for me I think they may be weighted. In a bad way.

Four punishers with multimeltas...sounds like a list of awesome. Would be interesting to see what it does in a tournament.
   
Made in nl
Confessor Of Sins






I feel your guard regiment should invest in some weather control satellites, it's always foggy

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Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Bristol!

Great Report!

What a weird list he used..pity you didn't roll 'Scouring'....when the dice abandon you like that tactics/lists etc won't make much difference..better luck next time.


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AlexHolker wrote:At this stage, I'm starting to think GW's CEO was just getting ready for the Rapture
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





Boston-area [Watertown] Massachusetts

As the local meta 'matures', your list has to adapt. You're clearly facing flyers and vehicles, you'll have to bring stuff to the table. I also think your opponents are tailoring their lists to you again. Do you know, in advance, who you are playing?

I believe this battle would have gone differently had your dice luck not gone south in the storm. I have the same problem, not matter what dice I use, I roll below average. Upping your anti-vehicle firepower is not a bad thing. Also, if you discover that you're fighting lists tailored to yours, it may be necessary to bring several lists, and the models to field those lists, so you can throw them off. Even if you're just picking one list at random before the game, or some such.

Luck for Folera.

--B.




Falling down is the same as being hit by a planet — "I paint to the 20 foot rule, it saves a lot of time." -- Me
ddogwood wrote:People who feel the need to cheat at Warhammer deserve pity, not anger. I mean, how pathetic does your life have to be to make you feel like you need to cheat at your toy army soldiers game?
 
   
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Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






New Hampshire

The narrative style makes it fun to read

WAAAGH!!!

 
   
Made in us
Manhunter






Little Rock AR

Vendetta, heavy bolters
Vendetta, heavy bolters

2x Punisher - both with lascannon, multimeltas
- one with Pask
Punisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Punisher - lascannon, multimeltas



This seems tailored to kill you and you alone Ailaros.



Proud to be Obliviously Blue since 2011!

 
   
Made in us
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader



DC Metro

Given the preponderance of allied IG blobs showing up in the tournament meta, I don't fault anyone for loading up on Punishers. The Vendettas will handle the heavy armor, leaving the buzzsaws to shred AV10 and AV11.

If the list were tailored, he'd have skipped the lascannons and multimelta sponsons in favor of 9 more HB shots per tank and spent the 100 points he saved on a unit of Rough Riders to murder your Stormtroopers.
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie





Just a quick question. Are the Kingsmen of Folera descended from the 70s edition Oompa-Loompa's? Their coloring is eerily reminiscent.

**It may just be the hazy nature of the last picture....** (Please do not take this as me making fun of your painting or figures!)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 21:54:09


 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

 ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:
Vendetta, heavy bolters
Vendetta, heavy bolters

2x Punisher - both with lascannon, multimeltas
- one with Pask
Punisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Punisher - lascannon, multimeltas



This seems tailored to kill you and you alone Ailaros.




It is something I have not really seen. Do you know if the person always fields lists like this? Some people do just field crazy lists. It could just be an AA list that has turned out to be good against foot Guard.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The only that list seems tailored for is a meta that doesn't include strong anti-tank firepower.

Probably no Dark Eldar around.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Firstly, no, this list is not tailored. The guy doesn't play guard, he plays punishers. It's his schtick.

Secondly, even if it were, it would be a challenge to meet, not a choice worth deriding.

Thirdly, lascannon/multimelta punishers are really pretty good. The hull weapons give you anti-tank, the punisher cannon gives you anti-horde and light vehicles, and all of it combined gives you good anti-MC and TEq. This person took 2nd at a local tournament a week ago, and I even tried a couple out for said tournament.

And no, the color scheme isn't oompa loompa It's brown and white, not orange and white.

As for list changes, I made this thread for that purpose. Not too keen on an ADL with quad gun, though. That's just going to provide too little anti-air to really make it all that worthwhile.

Plus, it was the punishers I struggled with much moreso than the vendettas.

DarknessEternal wrote:6th edition is not about objectives. At the end of any 6th edition game, one side is dominated so completely that holding objectives aren't what actually wins games any more. That's why you're seeing people minimize Troops and go for offense. Scoring just barely matters anymore.

I don't know how much I believe this. I'd like to think that 40k has moved on more substantially from its 4th ed roots into something more strategic nowadays.

But perhaps I'm wrong.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Leaping Dog Warrior






I literally laughed when I saw all four punishers bring those guns to bear on those poor stormtroopers.

But yeah, even though that's the list he normally runs, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only thing is to stay out of range and go for his troops. Personally, I'd have dropped those stormies on his vet squads and
played to draw. There's no way the troops could have grabbed that relic charging down four punishers. But if you want to re-enact something like the charge up Omaha beach, go for it.

Although, I'm a bit surprised he didn't run at least one of the Valkyries with hellstrike missiles. To give himself at least some long-range-anti-cover.

You've got orks now, yes? Put a power claw on some bikers and get to krumpin' those tanks. The punisher doesn't do much against those high toughness bikers with that cover save.

MRRF 300pts
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Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






Yea I doubt that was a tailored list, if you read Ailaros overview on his page he touches on his local meta shifting to more toys. Best way to beat other peoples toys it to bring even more of your own. Those punishers and vendettas will make short work of even a flier heavy min max list to be fair.

@Ailaros, don't read to much into it buddy, looks to me like you went for the throat and just rolled poorly this go around. Had you popped the punishers initially when your stormies had dropped this game would have been much different I feel.

The mech list looks crazy fun actually, can't blame a guy for wanting to through that many dice at a problem. Ha ha...

Like the stranger says... "sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you"....

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Ailaros wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:6th edition is not about objectives. At the end of any 6th edition game, one side is dominated so completely that holding objectives aren't what actually wins games any more. That's why you're seeing people minimize Troops and go for offense. Scoring just barely matters anymore.

I don't know how much I believe this. I'd like to think that 40k has moved on more substantially from its 4th ed roots into something more strategic nowadays.

But perhaps I'm wrong.

The evidence found here seems pretty conclusive to me. Except for the parts wherein the author plays games with on D2s instead of D6s.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 06:09:44


"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

That next game is freaking hilarious.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

kestril wrote:You've got orks now, yes? Put a power claw on some bikers and get to krumpin' those tanks. The punisher doesn't do much against those high toughness bikers with that cover save.

Technically, but not really. I'm a slow modeller. My orks are a long term project, not a short term fix.

Red Corsair wrote: looks to me like you went for the throat and just rolled poorly this go around.

My concern, though, is that it wasn't just luck this time. Do I actually have enough to handle this situation, or do I need good luck?

DarknessEternal wrote:The evidence found here seems pretty conclusive to me. Except for the parts wherein the author plays games with on D2s instead of D6s.

So, I went back through my games, and of the 19 where I could make a decision with any degree of utility, 10 were mostly decided by toys, 5 were decided by boys, and 4 were some combination.

The problem is that you could read this data two ways. The first is that boys are nearly equally important as toys, as half the games required them for the win. The second is that toys played the most or a very important role in 3/4 of the games, and thus you should focus only on toys, and don't sweat it too badly for those other games.

The main problem I have is that I don't identify with toys, and so switching my list from a all or mostly boy list to at least 50% toys is triggering an identity crisis for my guard army. If my 1500 point list looks like 6 melta/las PISs, the three officer squads, and 9 basilisks, that will make me an artillery player, rather than an foot player, or an infantry player, or a troops choice player. Taking on a new identity isn't exactly easy.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

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Boston-area [Watertown] Massachusetts

I am curious:

Could you break down your boys/toys ratio by point value?

IE:
500 points X Boys/X Toys
1000 points X Boys/X Toys

Etc.


Falling down is the same as being hit by a planet — "I paint to the 20 foot rule, it saves a lot of time." -- Me
ddogwood wrote:People who feel the need to cheat at Warhammer deserve pity, not anger. I mean, how pathetic does your life have to be to make you feel like you need to cheat at your toy army soldiers game?
 
   
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Vallejo, CA

My last league list ended with:

1850: 820 boys / 1030 toys

In this league, it was...

1500: 745 boys / 755 toys
1000: 870 boys / 130 toys
500: 395 boys / 105 toys

For, in descending points order, 44%, 49%, 87%, and 79%, respectively. I don't know what my opponents are spending, as I don't have their codices, but in the case of this game, my opponent spent only 18% of his points on boys to 82% on toys.

What's interesting here is that I actually had a much easier time at lower point games. I don't know if that's just because other codices struggle more at lower levels compared to guard, or I was being most successful at 1000 points (didn't lose a game at this points level) because I spent the most points on boys.

I suppose it gets trickier the higher points levels I go to as I only have SO many guard models, and I only have SO much space in my deployment zone to put them.






Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
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 Ailaros wrote:

The main problem I have is that I don't identify with toys,

If you play long enough, there will come a time when your army stops existing in practice. Oh the models are still there and the units exist; they are what you were playing, but not why you were playing them.

So you have to decide what's more important, the what or the why.

When I finally caved and admitted the models I was using no longer represented the army I actually enjoyed playing, it was quite freeing. Of course, I play with people that would let you play with pennies as models if it actually meant playing, so switching armies isn't really a big deal for me.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


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When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
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Keep in mind that identifying with things makes you bad at the game-- indeed, identifying with things often makes you bad at real life.

I also don't understand why you're so averse to using Vendettas, since all your fluff reports seem to have Stormtroopers deploying from Vendettas anyway.
   
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Boston-area [Watertown] Massachusetts

 Ailaros wrote:
My last league list ended with:

1850: 820 boys / 1030 toys

In this league, it was...

1500: 745 boys / 755 toys
1000: 870 boys / 130 toys
500: 395 boys / 105 toys

For, in descending points order, 44%, 49%, 87%, and 79%, respectively. I don't know what my opponents are spending, as I don't have their codices, but in the case of this game, my opponent spent only 18% of his points on boys to 82% on toys.

What's interesting here is that I actually had a much easier time at lower point games. I don't know if that's just because other codices struggle more at lower levels compared to guard, or I was being most successful at 1000 points (didn't lose a game at this points level) because I spent the most points on boys.

I suppose it gets trickier the higher points levels I go to as I only have SO many guard models, and I only have SO much space in my deployment zone to put them.



I think that, at lower points levels, Boys > Toys. But it looks like, when you get into the 1500 point range, the ratio flips. Your 'base troops + HQ' cost takes up a much, much smaller fraction of your total army, leaving you space to buy a LOT of toys.


Falling down is the same as being hit by a planet — "I paint to the 20 foot rule, it saves a lot of time." -- Me
ddogwood wrote:People who feel the need to cheat at Warhammer deserve pity, not anger. I mean, how pathetic does your life have to be to make you feel like you need to cheat at your toy army soldiers game?
 
   
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Vallejo, CA

DarknessEternal wrote:So you have to decide what's more important, the what or the why.

When I finally caved and admitted the models I was using no longer represented the army I actually enjoyed playing, it was quite freeing.

Well, you will always have a "why", or else you won't bother at all. In your particular case, the why went from "army I enjoy playing" to some thing else, not "army I enjoy playing" to nothing. Reasons may be more obscure, but that doesn't mean they're not present.

In this case, I'd have to come up with a new set of reasons (well, partially. Most of the reasons would still be there), hence the identity crisis, so to speak.

And even if you want to avoid it internally for some reason, you will have it applied to you externally. I mean, whenever I walk into a game store, people will go "There's Ailaros, the guy who plays ______". I always have a degree of choice over what is in that blank. It's the choosing that's the interesting part.

Kingsley wrote:Keep in mind that identifying with things makes you bad at the game-- indeed, identifying with things often makes you bad at real life.

While years ago I may well have had the same opinion as the author of this article, I consider it to be woefully inaccurate now. Furthermore, the DSM agrees with me, which is why it has several mental disorders that contain the word "identity" in them.

Human brains are designed to cheat - breaking down extremely complicated things into easy abstract principles. This is so important that our brains make us emotional about it to reinforce this behavior. Identity isn't just something that sometimes gets in the way of useful conversation about various topics, it's the core around which our brains operate, and it's vital to human happiness.

What the article is complaining about is people who lack wisdom, not people who have a sense of identity. Asceticism isn't the correct answer to a bad aesthetic, better aesthetics are. Because, as mentioned above, aesthetics are what give our actions meaning, and if something we do is meaningless, why bother doing it at all?


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





Boston-area [Watertown] Massachusetts

I love how deep down the rabbit hole these threads go.

So, the question is: Would the return of an Aegis line help or hinder? Comms relay to help get reserves in sooner?

Falling down is the same as being hit by a planet — "I paint to the 20 foot rule, it saves a lot of time." -- Me
ddogwood wrote:People who feel the need to cheat at Warhammer deserve pity, not anger. I mean, how pathetic does your life have to be to make you feel like you need to cheat at your toy army soldiers game?
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Ailaros wrote:
Human brains are designed to cheat - breaking down extremely complicated things into easy abstract principles. This is so important that our brains make us emotional about it to reinforce this behavior. Identity isn't just something that sometimes gets in the way of useful conversation about various topics, it's the core around which our brains operate, and it's vital to human happiness.


The Stoics and Buddhists would disagree with you.

Briancj wrote:I love how deep down the rabbit hole these threads go.


Me too!
   
 
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