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ok i'm new to the 6th edition. was told by my local play group i was able to stack my Psychic powers, Specifically hammerhand.

Situation GK terminators have hammerhand mastery lvl 1. i add in a IC such as Librarian mastery lvl 2/3 with hammerhand and might of titans.

so in the assault phase when these powers can be used i'm able to use each power accordingly, allowing brotherhood of psykers to pass the power used to everyone.

terminaters use their hammerhand for +1 str
then the Librarian uses his hammerhand for +1 str
then the Librarian uses Might of titans for +1 str

codex states that the might of titans and hammerhand stack

so the real question here is does hammerhands stack? making this +3 str to the unit with IC or is it just +2.

Yes. The main rulebook talks about psychic powers stacking.

you're kidding right? you cant stack the same psychic power

different ones can be stacked, not the same ones

as much as I WISH my GK's could, you cannot...

same with all psychic powers they only stack with DIFFERENT psychic powers

Actually that's wrong, hammer hand does stack.

However in response to the OP there has to be 3 psychic tests done as brotherhood of psykers doesn't apply to the IC, only the unit


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Example enfeebled and any other power, they stack

what is the justification for hammer hand stacking? it would be the only power that does stack with itself.

hammer hand can stack with might of titan and other different powers, but no power stacks with itself.


pg 68 BRB top right of page under resolve psychic power "unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative."


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enfeeble does not stack with itself either, maledictions and blessings both have the stipulation, written in the rule book, that they are cumulative with different [u]powers
the same power cast multiple times is not different powers, and does not stack. so trying to stack the same power, enfeeble on enfeeble, or hammer hand on hammer hand, is not legal


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The Op would roll one test for the unit for hammer hand, since it is cast on a unit, which includes attached IC's, then another test for titan.

IC's and units have to roll force weapons activation seperately however

Hammer hand specifies that it stacks with itself.

@Ub3rb3n the GK codex states pg 25 If the Psychic test is passed, all models in the unit (including independent characters) have +1 str until the end of the assault phase.

rigeld2 wrote:
Hammer hand specifies that it stacks with itself.

no it doesn't

pg 25 GK codex is right in front of me and it does NOT say it stacks with itself.
"this power is used during the assault phase in either players turn, after assault moves have been made, but before blows have been struck. if the psychic test is passed, all models in the unit (including independent characters) have +1 strength until the end of the assault phase. Note that this strength bonus is applied before any other modifiers, such as nemesis daemon hammers and so forth"
says nothing about stacking with itself (though it will stack with titan)

RAW stacking the same power is ilegal,
RAW stacking DIFFERENT[u] powers is legal

quote me the rule, because I just quoted RAW in the BRB where it says you cannot stack the same power.

I believe that in the Fifth edition rulebook FAQ it mentioned something about stacking but I don't see anything in either the Grey Knights FAQ or the BRB FAQ that mention stacking of psychic powers. I do remember it being clearly defined that it was okay but that doesn't seem to be the case any longer.

The one caveat to that however is that Hammerhand is not technically a blessing as it does not have the blessing type and it is not used at the beginning of the movement phase like is mentioned in the BRB. Since it is not a blessing it isn't limited by the rules for blessing which do clearly state that only different psychic power stack. The power, as written, has no limitations on how many times it can be cast on a unit other than the general limitation that a psyker may not cast the same power more than once barring any special rule to the contrary.

It says bonuses and penalties from different blessings stack. "Different blessings" can also be read to mean blessings cast by different casters.

Actually, it's not as explicit as it used to be. The GK FAQ used to explicitly say that Hammerhand stacks with itself, but they took that out with the 6th ed update.

easysauce wrote:

RAW stacking the same power is ilegal,
RAW stacking DIFFERENT[u] powers is legal

quote me the rule, because I just quoted RAW in the BRB where it says you cannot stack the same power.

The Rulebook doesn't say this.
Different blessings stack.
You're confusing this with same powers can't stack. Very different, and not what the rule says.
One Psyker casts Hammerhand, another casts Hammerhand. You now have two different Hammerhands. Same power, but different castings.
Two identical cars, are still two different cars.

 Mannahnin wrote:
It says bonuses and penalties from different blessings stack. "Different blessings" can also be read to mean blessings cast by different casters.

Actually, it's not as explicit as it used to be. The GK FAQ used to explicitly say that Hammerhand stacks with itself, but they took that out with the 6th ed update.

Thanks. I knew I read it somewhere. I just misremembered where. And didn't know they'd removed it.

actually a different caster casting the same psychic power is still the same psychic power,

I quoted above the page in the BRB where it specifically says only different powers can stack

not just blessings and maledictions, it says all powers above those two sections as well, right under "resolve the psychic power" in the top right on the pg above i quoted

you have yet to quote the rule book for actual RAW saying the the exact same power can stack with itself, even if from different casters.

you may play it as a house rule, but the BRB RAW says only different powers may stack, the rule book would simply say they stack if they did, instead it says only different powers stack


unless you have your oppenents consent to change this rule, it is illegal to stack the same power

GW cannot FAQ away peoples lack of reading comprehension,
this is clear cut, RAW say you can stack DIFFERENT powers,
some people think this means you can stack the exact same power, from different casters, and they are wrong, and breaking the rules (weather maliciously or not)
not the same one over and over

easysauce wrote:

GW cannot FAQ away peoples lack of reading comprehension,
this is clear cut, RAW say you can stack DIFFERENT powers,
some people think this means you can stack the exact same power, from different casters, and they are wrong, and breaking the rules (weather maliciously or not)
not the same one over and over

Yes they can.

Please explain to me how the passage:

(I'm not complaining about POTMS or the changes, for the record.)

"May fire one more weapon than would normally be allowed"

could possibly be misconstrued as

"may fire one more weapon than would normally be allowed, except when you pop smoke."

There is no legitimate RAW reason for this. The closest to a legitimate reason that people give is a fluff based reason, which any good player knows should never ever apply.

GW can and will change the very comprehensive core of RAW if it'll make people shut the feth up.

/rant

You're right, but don't assume that people actually comprehend what they read. While sometimes the rules have grey areas, it is also true that people can sometimes just plain not pick up on things.

I see your point man, sometimes they do need to clarify

but still people in this case, are reading it wrong, very wrong


so no you can NOT stack the same power,

you CAN stack different powers however,

/thread

easysauce wrote:
I see your point man, sometimes they do need to clarify

but still people in this case, are reading it wrong, very wrong


so no you can NOT stack the same power,

you CAN stack different powers however,

/thread

It is not as clear as you think it is.

 Mannahnin wrote:
"Different blessings" can also be read to mean blessings cast by different casters.

So there is some debate.

different powers, means different powers

not different casters,

again, when the whole "arguement" for something rests on words meaning something other then what they mean, its not a good basis,

when the BRB specifically states, under maledicitons, as well as under blessings, and in addition says for psychic powers in general that all the diffferent ones stack, its cut and dry


you can argue the intent of the rules is to allow for identical powers to stack, but RAW only allow different powers to stack

easysauce wrote:
different powers, means different powers

not different casters,

again, when the whole "arguement" for something rests on words meaning something other then what they mean, its not a good basis,

when the BRB specifically states, under maledicitons, as well as under blessings, and in addition says for psychic powers in general that all the diffferent ones stack, its cut and dry


you can argue the intent of the rules is to allow for identical powers to stack, but RAW only allow different powers to stack

The rules doesn't say different powers, it says different blessings.
If it said different powers, then you'd be right. It would be clear cut. But it doesn't.

the BRB does NOT state you can stack multiple identical powers,

so unless someone quotes an actual rule that allows this, there is no basis for it

and there is an actual RAW that forbids it (brb specifically states that different powers (not casters) stack)

argueing that power=caster is not logical, or correct


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 grendel083 wrote:
rules doesn't say different powers, it says different blessings.
If it said different powers, then you'd be right. It would be clear cut. But it doesn't.

actually, you need to read that page again, it says powers in the top right of that page, right under resolve psychic power pg 68 BRB top right of page under resolve psychic power "unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative."


it specifically says for blessings, maledictions, under that part,

Well you are allowed to cast Psychic powers.

Different Psykers can cast the same power in the same phase.

They are allowed to cast on the same target.

P.66 has the rules that allow this.

Now find something that restricts these rules.

easysauce wrote:
and there is an actual RAW that forbids it

There really isn't.
You have permission to apply stat modifiers via blessings, nothing then prevents them stacking.
There's a rule saying the benefits of different blessing are cumulative (however you choose to read it), there is still nothing preventing the stacking of blessings.

the rule book says different powers (specifically uses that word powers)

the rule book is permissive, not restrictive

IE just because the rule book doesnt say you cannot use loaded dice, does not mean you can use them

permission is only given to stack different powers

permission is not given to stack identical powers,

other wise RAW would say "psychic powers are cumulative"
as opposed to "different psychic powers are cumulative"

you can argue its RAI to stack all psychic powers,
but RAW does not support this, RAW just says its ok to stack different powers


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 grendel083 wrote:
The rules doesn't say different powers, it says different blessings.
If it said different powers, then you'd be right. It would be clear cut. But it doesn't.

and there I just showed you where it says "different powers"

and you completly ignore that RAW rule, and keep going on...

by your own words, this is clear cut, you can stack different powers,

you need to find permission to stack identical powers,

I do not need to prove a negative here, you need to prove you have permission to do somthing NOT written in the rule book

easysauce wrote:
the rule book says different powers (specifically uses that word powers)

Really? The word "power" does not appear once in the blessing rules.
Page 68.

easysauce wrote:
the rule book says different powers (specifically uses that word powers)

the rule book is permissive, not restrictive

IE just because the rule book doesnt say you cannot use loaded dice, does not mean you can use them

permission is only given to stack different powers

permission is not given to stack identical powers,

and one psykers casting is a different power than another psykers casting.

I have shown permission to cast psychic powers, at the same target. As you know, with a permissive ruleset, once you are given permission to do something you can do that until something takes that permission away.

"Note that bonuses and penalties from different blessings are always cumulative" P. 68

 grendel083 wrote:

easysauce wrote:
the rule book says different powers (specifically uses that word powers)

Really? The word "power" does not appear once in the blessing rules.
Page 68.

dude, read my post, read the whole thing, and actually look at the BRB page, where I am quoting, not the section below it. pg 68 BRB top right of page under resolve psychic power "unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative."


ABOVE the rules for blessings, and maledictions, there in the top right of the page, under "resolving psychic powers"

it says "different psychic powers are cumulitive"


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you have permission to cast the same power again with a different caster, you do NOT have permission to stack that same power,

you still ahve not given any RAW that says identical powers stack,

where as there is a RAW saying different powers stack, which does mean identical powers do not stack
pg 68 BRB top right of page under resolve psychic power "unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative."

"where as there is a RAW saying different powers stack, which does mean identical powers do not stack "

Wrong. Logical fallacy. Try again

(Just because it explicitly states a permission on one thing does not mean a similar thing is restricted)

I don't think we can for sure know, but based of some of the new Chaos spells I'd say different casters can stack the same spell.
Sucks for my monsters at times :(

it says different powers for a reason,

if you truely can stack powers,

as opposed to stacking different powers,

why does the RAW say "different" powers at all?


you are contending that "different powers are cumulative" means "all powers are cumulative"

which is A: an assuption, B not RAW, and not IMO RAI

however when I read that "different powers are cumulative"
I know it means "different powers are cumulative"
stop, that is is, there is no hidden meaning whereby this one permission for different powers to stack also means that ALL powers now stack

Again, reread what you are saying.

You have made a claim that permission to do A means that B is not allowed. Logically you have no argument

RAW you have permission to cast the same power from different sources onto the same target. RAW they add +1S to the model.

Now find a restriction on this +1S. Find something like "to unmodified strength" or similar. If you cannot find it then you go:

S4 -> S5
S5 -> S6

And so on.

In essence - you have no proof of your contention, as you are reading a restriction when in fact there is only permission.

im not reading a restriction that is not there,

you are reading a permission that is not there.


permission to stack different powers, is not permission to stack identical powers.


you have to show where the rule book gives permission to stack identical powers