Atlantik Wall and Overlord

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Reaver83**

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=126&aft=553153&afv=topic

Just in case people didn't read in their start of the year message, Battlefront are redoing Normandy to bring it in line with all the new V3 books, so expect lots of what we already have with maybe a couple of new lists.

**infinite_array**

Mmmmmmm.... not sure whether to be happy or unhappy.

On one hand, updated Normandy list are welcome since, well, everything WWII I own is for Normandy.

On the other hand, I spent money on Turning Tide in hardcopy (thank goodness I held of of buying Earth & Steel, and both TT and E&S in Easy Army, only to now have that all replaced.

It's also extremely worrying that this'll be the big reveal on whether 'codex creep' exists in FoW or not. Will Brit players accept going back down to AT 13 Fireflies and 15-pdr guns, and AT 10 6-pdr guns? Will the American lists actually be stronger than their Late-Late war counterparts? And what will that do for game 'balance'?

**MarsNZ**

Codex creep is much less of a problem because they are limited by what was actually available, and BF doesn't have a FW equivalent to throw point values out across the board. We've already seen how '44 and '45 lists operate together, it's not altogether too bad but personally I prefer to take opposing lists from similar campaigns, ie 2AD vs 2SS from Cobra, for example rather than seeing a beachlanding force take on the defenders of Berlin.

**col. krazy kenny**

I hope they add some new lists for the books.

**creeping-deth87**

I'm sorry, but... why exactly would Fireflies go back down to AT 13? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them AT 15 for consistency, since we're talking about the same weapon?

On topic: I'm still pretty new to this game so I'm happy about any new book release. I've been having fun with Bridge by Bridge but more briefings wouldn't hurt.

**infinite_array**

creeping-deth87 wrote:
I'm sorry, but... why exactly would Fireflies go back down to AT 13? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them AT 15 for consistency, since we're talking about the same weapon?

The reasoning given for the bump in AT for the Brits was that APDS ammo was much more common in comparison to the amount being used back in Normandy. Thus, 17- and 10-pdr guns that got the AT bump from the improved ammo for Market-Garden can't have the same AT ratings as those in Normandy.

**col. krazy kenny**

Why would they rename them?
They should just put a V3 approved on the front of the book.but i would like to see more SS love.

**infinite_array**

Also, isn't this the first time Battlefront has re-done hardcover books, instead of compiling softcover books and pdf's?

**d-usa**

creeping-deth87 wrote:
I'm sorry, but... why exactly would Fireflies go back down to AT 13? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them AT 15 for consistency, since we're talking about the same weapon?

Fireflies with AT-13 have a different pointcost than Firelies with AT-15. It's not really any different than having the same tank as trained and veteran. It's not really anything that messes up the game to keep both versions around.

**Reaver83**

col. krazy kenny wrote:
Why would they rename them?
They should just put a V3 approved on the front of the book.but i would like to see more SS love.

They renamed them so people would not get confused between the 'old' books and the 'new' books as they have the same cover art.

I do wonder that with allied books now being named 'overlord' and 'market garden' whether they'll name the italian compilations 'avalanche' or some such

**LuciusAR**

Constantly pumping out hardcover books at £30 each, especially as the old Overlord hardbacks are only about 2 years old, seems increasingly indefensible to me. Is there a PDF errata available for those who already have the Overlord hardbacks?

**AndrasOtto**

So far I have managed to avoid buying hardcover books. I refuse to pay twice for something (soft bound volumes first, then hardcover) let alone three times with a revised hardcover book.

**infinite_array**

So, Battlefront has revealed the covers for Atlantik Wall and Overlord.

Just in case you forgot, or never saw them, here's the soon-to-be old covers:

Alrighty. Now here's the new covers:

Yup. Little bit of photoshop and you're good to go.

Also, there's this little tidbit:

Battlefront wrote:It is not just for third edition changes this has been necessary but with the evolution of Airborne forces and US Armour in the Ardennes series of intelligence briefings, (Blood, Guts & Glory, Devil’s Charge, NUTS) and the Market Garden compilations these books needed a good overhaul.

Translation:
No one's going to buy this if it isn't as good as the books we've put out, so we're going to screw around with the semi-historically correct forces even more to make them at the very least on the same level. Probably better, since the Germans weren't exactly as screwed in Normandy as they were later on the Western Front.

Blaugh. Will any shops be selling Battlegroup Overlord in Dublin? Might as well pick it up while I'm there for study abroad.

**Xanthos**

The big problem with these books, is that they aren´t even discounting them for people who already have them. Instead, they are throwing in a set of scenic bases for these players. Now, the new scenic bases are nice, no doubt, but it´s still a silly way to go about it.

I was really hoping that they would go with the route of the V2->V3 system, where you didn´t get screwed over if you had the old ones.

At my FLGS the plan is to have the store absorb part of the cost for players who have the old books, because honestly, I wouldn´t buy them if I had to get them at full price, and I wouldn´t expect others to do so...

**Bezerker Saberhagen**

When was it stated there's no longer a discount?

The front page article http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=3823 is still talking about a special price for the exchange and I'm sure that now Battlefront have promised a half price refund plenty of customers will be miffed if they don't stick to that.

**Xanthos**

I believe the "special price" they mention is the combined set price, not a better price for people who have the old books. Half price seems to be off the table as far as I can see.

"any customer who goes along to their local store and presents their old copies will not only be able to pick up the new pair of books for the combined special price but they will also be given a set of our new “rural” bases absolutely free."

This seems to imply that you get the bases as a thank-you, not a discount in price other than the combination deal they´ve been doing lately on their book sets.

So basically you get a 10% discount if you buy both books, and that´s it.

**Bezerker Saberhagen**

They have stated in the past that there will be a half price discount IIRC for either book exchange, not just the combined set.

I'm sure people will be able pull that quote from archives if they decide to go back on it but I haven't seen any direct statement that they have reversed it or noticed any discord from the community which I would expect to inevitably follow such a decision.

The "special price" could be either or both. Have you actually heard anything that says the discount has been reversed, or is this just speculation based on the lack of recent confirmation that was still the case?

Bear in mind that when the orifgnal discount was announced a few people said that even at half price it was a poor deal. It looks to me like the base offer is an additional incentive to justify what would still be ~£25 for only an additional 100 pages or so on the combined books.

**Xanthos**

No actual confirmation, I´m just worried that this may be what´s happening, seeing as there is no mention of it in the article. It seems weird for BF not to mention something like a 50% discount, I feel. I hope I´m wrong of course. I´ll try and get a call in to my guy at BF, and see if he has news either way...

**Bezerker Saberhagen**

Bad news, looking through the Battlfront site there was this post on their product support forum from JP:

I am sorry to say that me not addressing the previous post was not part of my plan and in the last minute running around to complete the web update yesterday I simply forgot to post here to explain in the more detail why our plan had changed.

When Pete and I discussed this idea initially we came up with the discounted price idea thinking it would be both simple and cost effective to run such a promotion. Now call us optimistic but sometimes our wishes are harder to deliver than we think and after talking to many stores and trying to work through the logistics of the plan combined with the costs involved created a messy and unprofitable result. These books have not had a “tweak” done to them but have taken the same time to produce two new books, something we did not expect at the outset, and have ended up being larger and more costly to produce than we ever expected.

The “discounted” price issue is much more problematic to manage with over a thousand stores and given neither the stores or us could predict how many people would take us up on offer the “how” became harder and harder to solve as if this was just a direct solution it is easy but our commitment to support the local stores and get you to go to them makes the idea unfortunately harder to execute that we imagined.

It is always disappointing to realise that you can’t stick to your “word” and deliver exactly what you wanted but despite our best efforts we are simply not able to deliver what Pete and I thought we could all those months ago. Not wanting to let our starting intention go to waste we came up with an alternative plan to simply making the books cheaper by giving added value and something for free that is both new and easily traded should you not want to use them. It is true that this is not as good a deal as saving US$50 on the purchase of the two new books but with our new pricing policy and the added free gift you are still getting something from us to say thank you.

Our apologies for the change in plans.

John-Paul

So yes, they have actually backed up on the original intention fro a half price exchange.

I'm personally not that concerned with them revising business plans (they wouldn't have offered it in the first place if they didn't think they could deliver), but at the end of the day, even with the bases it simply means that the updates just don't justify the cost for me.

**d-usa**

At least they are not pretending that we should be happy to get this new book printed on the finest paper with the finest ink ever made by a company.

Even if they had to back up on their original plan, I can appreciate a company saying "sorry it didn't work out".

**Xanthos**

Yup, that´s pretty much what I was told as well. They couldn´t make it work in the way they originally wanted to... :S

Ah well, we´ll see what the books look like when they land.