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This is a take all comers type list,ment to be competitive and fun.



Lords-646


Lord+horse,Virtue of heroism,Armour of agilulf,shrieking blade,mantel of elana-226
Lord+Virtue of empathy,enchanted shield,biting blade-135
Green Knight-275

Heroes-422

Paladin+lance,shield,horse,Razor Banner-127
Damsel+ LVL 2,,dispell scroll,horse,barding
Damsel+LVL 2,prayer Icon,mask of EEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Core-1173

KOTRx9+command,flamming banner-250
KOTRx9+command,gleaming pennet-245
KEx9+command,erranty banner-221
MAAx50+command-277(points up at damsel with icon and mask)
Bowmanx10-60
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65

Special-165

Pegasus Knightsx3-165

Rare-588

Trebuchet-90

Grail Knightsx11+command,wailing banner-498

Thoughts???

Quite a few things I'd change.

Firstly, ditch the Green Knight, he isn't very good at much and a prophetess would do much better. Get rid of the empathy lord and swap them both for a prophetess.

BSBs can't have mundane equipment, so you should get rid of it and the razor banner, give him something with a rerollable armour (i.e Gromril Great Helm) because you don't want his leadership to die.



The mask of EEE! is pointless, give her the ruby goblet or a silver mirror or anything but it.

Maybe too many GK for my liking, but if they survive to make contact they will wreck anything.

Also, only one trebuchet? Do you want the enemy to laugh at your misfortune, or for someone with the new HE army book to Roflstomp you with his HE deathstar? This is a grand army, bring 3 or 4 and watch your enemy cry as you pound him with S5 turn after turn.

I've been tempted to drop the green knight,,,but would like to hear abit more about why you think I should/shouldn't??

As to the BSB I thought he couldnt take magical equipment?,,,ok smacks forhead,,,,,reread his rule entry,,,so the BSB paladin is a knight but can't take lances or shields unless they are magical right????

How is the mask of eee pointless? combined with the icon ,it gives my MAA's a ward save and makes them cause terror/fear?

The lord on foot goes with the MAA's aswell for his LD,or is there something better that I could do there?

The GK are expensive points wise,but I love them and well,you are right when they hit its awesome .

I would love,both as a model and for what it does,,would take another trebuchet but well,I only own one >.<

Also I have been told that magical weapons are always used,even if the bret book says they use lances on the charge is that right?,,,thats why my lord on horse does not have one,

Bretonnia is different, we ALWAYS use the lance on the charge (knights are too damn stubborn to follow the BRB, besides Armybook < BRB)

The reason that the Green Knight isn't very handy is that he can't win combats on his own. He doesn't appear until the second turn and because the table has terrain placed randomly, he may proved useless in getting anywhere. Whilst he can come back to life, several band rolls will have him off the table for most of the game, because he will most likely die.

As for the foot lord, he isn't very good because he hasn't got much hitting power. Plus if the damsel explodes....... well you may have lost the lord too.

The mask of EEE! only provides terror for 25 pts iirc, and terror isn't the best thing this edition. So then they rely on the Lord's LD, but then he may explode because of the damsel.

Hmmmms

So I'm thinking ,,,,I add the lance up to my general,,,,add a helm to my bsb paladin(can't remember the name,the one that gives him 2+armour,,,work 3rd shift and Im dead tired atm)

I am extremely torn on the green knight,,love the model,,,his fluff is cool,rules are okish,,,but Ive had games where he shows up and is almost ignored,games where he has totally rocked,,,,,,,,then several games where he stays behind,,,hanging around with the lady of the lake I suppose,,nudge,nudge,,,,,,,

If I were to drop him,,,,,,

I could either,,,take another unit of KOTR,,,or add more knights to my squads,,,,add another damsel or so,(I use my magic to augment my units,rather than as offensive units)

What are some suggestions folks? what would you change/add???

I think the foot lord can work, but you seriously need to ask yourself what he is trying to accomplish. In order for him to be useful, he will need to add to the Men at Arms, Consider this build.

Bretonnian Lord- Questing Vow, Great Weapon, Virtue of Empathy, Armour of Silvered Steel, Ruby Goblet, Luckstone

a 2+ save is far better than a 3+ save which is the best he can get with an Enchanted Shield, the Ruby Goblet is great because it forces opponents to wound the Men at Arms on a 3+, this pairs excellently with the Blessing of the Lady making the Men at Arms a supurb tarpit against s5+ attacks. Questing Vow and Great Weapon are to give him consistant strength 6, and conserve magic items allotment for his defense and unit buffing abilities.

You won't need to worry about Exploding Damsel syndrome too much, since your Lord can just park himself on the opposite side of the Men at Arms horde from her. As long as you play it smart, he can stay pretty safe from explosions.

On your mounted Lord, Swift Slaying will be infinitely better than Shriking Blade + Mantle. ASF re-rolls pair very nicely with HKB.

Wailing Banner is going to be largely useless on your GKs, reason being is that you are only getting half of the benefit of Terror- because you are already immune to psychology. So really you are just taking it for your opponents leadership checks. Considering how expensive Grail Knights are, and how devestating they are in close combat, I would give them the Banner of Defense for similar points. You have a huge block of GKs, being able to give them a 4+ ward save against high strenght magic and warmachines, like Cannons or the Foot of Gork could be huge, and may very well mean the difference between your Grial Knights getting shot down, or failing to do anything.

Banner of Chalons, or Lichebone are both better magic banners than the Gleaming Pendant. Chalons because it lets you fearlessly charge things like Handgunners or thunderers, and Lichbone because Magic Resistance will stack with your Blessing Save against Spells, which can be cool.

Also note the War Banner, bretonnia get it at a discount, and straight up +1 combat resolution for 25 points is a pretty solid deal. For added hilarity, you can give your BSB the Virtue of Duty and join him to the squad with the Warbanner. You get a static +4 bonus to your combat resolution (unit banner + warbanner + BSB + Virtue of Duty). That can be absolutely awesome.

Ok,,,after pondering over the suggestions thus far here is an updated list,,,I toyed around with a toned down paladin on foot but was not too thrilled with his options,,,so in for a penny in for a pound so to speak for the lord on foot,,,,,this list leaves me with 8pts to play with,not sure if I should drop a couple MMA and get something for my 3rd damsel or drop her and roll her into a prophetess,I use the lore of life. Especially 2 and 3,,,having T7 knights is nice but T7 MMA is hilarious,,,basic battle plan,,,lord unit of knights supported by the other KOTR ,,,GK's supported by KE hammer into things,,,MMAs waddle forward and take on nasty things,,,peg knights fly around looking pretty,,,er I mean,,,,attack things like cannons and what not,,,bow men ,,,let loose and ,,well generally annoy people,,,,treb flings flying pigs at people,,,

Lords-452


Lord+horse,lance,Virtue of heroism,Armour of agilulf,shrieking blade,mantel of elana-232
Lord+Virtue of empathy,sword of might,dawn stone,shield,DragonHelm,questing vow,Ruby Gantlet-220


Heroes-528

Paladin(BSB) Virtue of Duty,biting blade,enchanted shield-110-(-a 1+base save,,yeah Ill take that,,,lol)
Damsel+ LVL 2,,dispell scroll,horse,barding-144
Damsel+LVL 2,prayer Icon,mask of EEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-155
Damsel+LVL2,horse,barding-119

Core-1279

KOTRx12+command,War Banner-331(plus BSB,lord,damsel)
KOTRx9+command,Lichbone Pennant-255
KEx9+command,erranty banner-221
MAAx50+command-277(points up at damsel with icon and mask and lord on foot)
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65(flaming attacks always cause fear in beasts,correct,not just in the shooting phase??)

Special-165

Pegasus Knightsx3-165

Rare-568


Trebuchet-90

Grail Knightsx11+command,Banner of Defence-478 (damsel on horse)



OR

Lords-232


Lord+horse,lance,Virtue of heroism,Armour of agilulf,shrieking blade,mantel of elana-232



Heroes-633


Paladin-60,virtue of empathy,questing vow,sword of might,enchanted shield,luck stone,-113

Paladin(BSB) Virtue of Duty,Biting Blade Dragon Helm-110
Damsel+ LVL 2,,dispell scroll,horse,-140
Damsel+LVL 2,prayer Icon,mask of EEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-155
Damsel+LVL2,horse,-115

Core-1401

KOTRx12+command,War Banner-331(plus BSB,lord,damsel)
KOTRx12+command,Lichbone Pennant-327
KE x12+command,erranty banner-281
MAAx48+command-267(points up at damsel with icon and mask and lord on foot)
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65

Special-165

Pegasus Knightsx3-165

Rare-568


Trebuchet-90

Grail Knightsx11+command,Banner of Defence-478 (damsel on horse)

===============2999====================================

Neither list is focused enough really, you're trying to do too much. You're also spreading your characters around too much which means that you're not going with the tanking capability that gives Brets most of their combat power.

I'm only going to go over list 1, mainly because a lot of what I would suggest would simply be repeated for list 2.

Having a magic weapon and a lance on the lord is a bit of a waste of points really. The Shrieking Blade might be worth it for the one time your opponent fluffs their Fear test and you get to hit them on 3s, but by and large this will be so inconsistent there's no point building towards it. I'd say give him just Warrior Bane and be done with it. Your Lord (and I'm assuming general as he's the first on the list) is also far too east to kill- WS 10 goes a little way towards helping him, but he's still only got a 2+ save with no re-roll- this will be far too easy to kill. I'd suggest instead going with the tried and tested build of making him survivable of Warrior Bane/Biting Blade and Gromril Great Helm- he loses the WS10, but instead gets a 1+ save with a re-roll, which will in general be much much better for him- WS3/4 stuff isn't going to kill him anyway with this kit loadout, and it is much stronger against WS5 or better.

The only real reason to take 2 Lords is for the Alpha Strike turn 1 33" charge which your list clearly isn't built to do. Otherwise, a Lord just doesn't add enough- a Paladin offers a similar tanking capacity for many fewer points, and his points could instead be spent on more bodies elsewhere, almost a full unit. If you don't want to build the Alpha Strike list, I'd suggest swapping him out for a level 4 on Lore of Heavens (easily the best all-round lore for Brets at the moment) on a horse with the Silver Mirror and the Falcon Horn. If you really want, you can get in both Lords and the Level 4 at 3k, but you do have to make cuts so I wouldn't suggest doing it unless you really want to run the Alpha Strike list.

The Virtue of Duty is pointless- your combats should not be so close that something like this matters. Instead, the Dawnstone is better on the BSB- you now have a 2nd T4 character with a 1+ re-rollable save to go in the front rank of the megalance.

In order to increase the threat range and tanking capacity of the megalance, I'd suggest then adding in the usual 2nd Paladin- lance, Dragonhelm, Luckstone and Virtue of the Impetuous Knights. This means the front rank of the megalance will now have 3 T4 1+ re-rollable characters with 5++s in the front rank, so they will take very little damage. The characters do a bit of damage, as do the knights behind who mainly add an extra 3-4 ranks which gives you rank bonus and breaks Steadfast. As long as you pick your combats correctly, you will either run over something in one round or get caught by a Stubborn Crown. This is the key strength of Brets- it maximises the benefits of the lance formation and magic items available whilst minimising the weakness of the army, which is that the knights are quite easy to kill and don't kill very much.

If you put the level 4 in, you won't need 3 level 2s. I'd take just 1 Damsel on a horse, and just as a level 1, to carry the 2nd Scroll. Lore of Beasts will also get you more mileage here, Life magic in general isn't great on Brets especially when it's just a level 1. Beasts will instead guarantee you Wildform, so your knights will become both harder to kill and kill more (S6 on the charge is a huge increase compared to S5).

If you do decide to stick with all 3, I wouldn't consider the Prayer Icon or the Mask worthwhile investments in this list- coming back to what I mentioned earlier, you're not building the Alpha Strike list so you'll be Praying more often than not and on the occasion that you don't want to Pray, the Icon won't really be relevant. Terror tests do very little in this edition, and most things you charge you'll be able to run over anyway. I'd also swap all 3 of them to Beasts, as you will get so much more mileage from them instead of Life.

The KotR are best suited to be your megalance in this list. I would swap them out for Knights Errant, because they're cheaper and the drop from WS4 to WS3 will not be relevant for them very often- you'll still run over WS3 units and the knights shouldn't be getting attacked by WS4 enemy because of the front rank of tank characters. Having to take the ld test is annoying, but the benefits outweigh this downside especially as you should really swap out the War Banner for the Standard of Discipline for the same reasons that the Virtue of Duty is redundant. I'd also put an extra body in there to get the unit up to 13- with the Lord, level 4, BSB and ChargePaladin in there, along with a hero mage or another character, you will get a lance of 18 bodies which is the most you can put in your deployment zone.

The Lichebone Pennant is somewhat wasted on the KotR, I'd be inclined to just drop it outright and save the points. If you really want MR1 on them, a Damsel can sit in there with them. I'd also suggest trying to get some more bodies in there to make this into your baby lance. If you want a magic banner on them or have points left over, the +1 movement banner won't hurt but I wouldn't say it's necessary either.

Your list is very, very light on both chaff and anti-chaff which can be a massive issue. I'd strongly recommend dropping the 12 Knights Errant, and instead taking 2-3 units of 5 KotR with musicians and then 2-3 Paladins with lances and shields. These chaff lances can great at redirecting or getting rid of other chaff, and the Paladins can do either the same thing or can go in the front rank of the baby lance to add some extra damage output and tanking capability.

Men at Arms are, in general, really quite bad.

I wouldn't bother with the Bowmen either.

I'd absolutely take a 2nd Trebuchet, and at 3k (unless you're playing without Grand Armies) you can take 4- again, I would absolutely do this.

I'm not sold on the Grail Knights in this sort of list, as it's not an out and out rush combat list so you'll quite often be better served sitting back and using your shooting/magic to pick the enemy apart. Because of this, taking a big unit of GK will mean you have a lot of points sitting back not fulfilling their potential because to do so would endanger the rest of the army. However, I would suggest swapping the Banner of Defence out for the Gleaming Pennant, as it will let them re-roll their first failed Break test even if they get isolated away from the BSB.

 tmarichards wrote:
I wouldn't bother with the Bowmen either.

I would like to interject that a minimal unit of bowmen with braziers can chip the regen off a hydra or a hellpit and are quite cheap, and provide you with a drop. But for the most part, I agree with tmarichards' post.

I must be missing something,,for the Gromril Great Helm,which give a 6+save,,,how is that better than his heavy armour and shield?????

Gomericus wrote:
I must be missing something,,for the Gromril Great Helm,which give a 6+save,,,how is that better than his heavy armour and shield?????

It is in combination to everything else. So it works like this. Heavy armour gives you a 5+, The barded mount brings it down to a 3+, shield takes it to a 2+, and the helm to a rerollable 1+.

I always start with 2 trebuchets and work back. Even if you trim about 3-4 grail knights to pay for it then grail knights are still big enough to hurt.

Ok,,,here goes,,,

Total-2998

Lords-237


Lord+horse,lance,Virtue of heroism,Gromil great helm,,shrieking blade,mantel of elana-237



Heroes-749


Paladin-60,virtue of empathy,questing vow,sword of might,dragon helm, shield,luck stone,-115

Paladin(BSB) dawnstone,biting blade,enchanted shield,horse-115
Paladin, virtue of duty,charmed shield,lance,horse,-115

Damsel+ LVL 2,,dispell scroll,horse,-140
Damsel+LVL 2,prayer Icon,mask of EEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-155
Damsel+LVL1,dispell scroll,,horse,-105

Core-1189

KOTRx8+command,War Banner-241(plus BSB,lord,paladin, lvl2damsel)
KOTRx9+command,Lichbone Pennant-255
KE x9+command,erranty banner-221
MAAx48+command-267(points up at damsel with icon and mask and lord on foot)
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65
Bowmanx10+flamming arrows-65

Special-165

Pegasus Knightsx3-165

Rare-658


Trebuchet-90
Trebuchet-90
Grail Knightsx11+command,Banner of Defence-478 (damsel on horse)


I tried out the larger,,12 unit of KOTR,plus characters,,it was just too unwieldy as far as maneuvering goes for my taste,,,stuck them out too far,,,I ALWAYs pray,so that left my core generals unit sticking out too far, and I really do not like getting charged 1st turn,,,,
The addition of the 3rd paladin worked well,,stuck with the virtue of duty for my generals unit,but swapped it around so my bsb had a 1+rerollable save,,,having 4+straight off,plus four ranks before even going into combat seems like a sure thing for me,,,as half the time you are wanting units to run,,,as alot of times knight units are not going to kill that many,,but rather to make them run and then ride them down,,,

Tactics

Fear causing blade on my general is not to inflict it on enemy units but rather to counter it from in coming attacks via fear causing enemies,
Bowmen,,,yeah they are the IG of fantasy,,,but they are cheap,will kill something,and I deploy them first,,,then my block of MMA's giving me the chance to see what I am facing and where to better deploy my knights

I was abit torn on taking that 2nd trebuchet,but having two strenght 5 pieplates is like having more knight units,,,,just gotta finish building it,using my metal one as a guide,,,

I did not miss the green knight at all ,,,

I would have liked to get more knights via another unit of KOTR,but found that the list I worked with did well,was fun to run(which is my main goal)

The damsels buff my units,,,I use my MMAs damsel to really make them nasty in cca something most people are not expecting ,,thats the same reason I give them a damsel with the icon and mask,,,giving them ward saves and making them cause terror,,,

The other lvl2 goes with my general,,,helping buff them out,,,

The lvl1 goes with my GK's,,,again,addin to their protection
I thought about trimming them down some,,,but well,,,idk,,,just like them for some reason,,,
also about the damsels,,,
If they explode,they explode,,,but thus far in the time Ive been playing since going into fantasy I've only had that happen once,it it was kinda funny anyway,,,,sooo was worth

 ruminator wrote:
I always start with 2 trebuchets and work back. Even if you trim about 3-4 grail knights to pay for it then grail knights are still big enough to hurt.

This.
The only time I wouldn't do this would be in a 3,000 point game, then I'd start with 4.
As far as must takes,
1) As many Trebuchets as you can fit.
2) BSB (you want him, and you have to take him)
3) Level 4 wizard (You'll really want her in these big games)
4) Silver mirror and/or Dispel scroll (at 3K, I'd take both).

Bowmen with fire arrow are totally worth it. I'd run a unit on each flank and try and pick off a wound before the trebuchets fire.
What's got Regeneration:
Hydra, Abomination, Chimera, Beast of Nurgle, Trolls

-Matt

hoping this doesnt count as necromancy but could folks give me a hand trimming down this list to 2500 pts ive got a 2500pt tourney in a few weeks and cannot think of what to cut

only endtimes rules that are being used are for the 50% lords and heros rules

Take a lvl4
Take 9 Paladins with one being the bsb
Take a unit of 5 knight of the realm
Take 2 units of 6 Knights errant
Take 2 trebuchets
Then take 4 units of 40 bowmen with flaming braziers
Then with points left over take magic items that you want.

Tactics are easy, a trebuchet and 2 units of bowmen on either side all Knights together and bubble savage beast or panns pelt and win. Just remember to put down pesants first.