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Hi all, looking at the much leaked new eldar codex. Don't know if you have, but i also get mine tonight at midnight or Sunday.

Anyways - i want to do a largely focused wraith army. Here is what i gathered

Wraith Shoot- all forms seem good
Wraith Melee- is it just me or do these guys seem to slow, and would have to always take the axe and shield combo.
Wraith lord - competes with the new Knight - supports ample amount of weaponry, can work as an AA platform.
Wraith Knight - Really really up in the air on this one, supports long range, moves quickly, seems like a good deal.
Spirit Seer - Basically a farseer, works very nicely.

My general thoughts are
2 - Seers
4 - 5 man wraiths
2 - wraith lords
1 Wraith Knight
the wraith flier seems to be a huge leadership boat over actual real damage.

Clear weakness: Slow to move, Super short range, Anti Tank weaponry and plasma is super effective.

Converse on how to cover the weakness or make it better - the goal is all wraith, it will be a uphill battle for sure.

My thoughts:
Use the lords and knight to provide a long range fire base loaded with high strength and low ap weaponry.
Use the guard - 2 with cannons to walk around and general objective harassment
Use the guard - 2 with d-scythes to defend the lords and knight and over all keep the army glued together
Use the seers to buff and debuff with random powers - also twin-linked shots.. woo.

Secondary goals - if this could all be foot slogging that would be nice, but it doesn't seem likely.

You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

 warpspider89 wrote:
You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

If you run the Wraithguard with D Scythes then you aren't going to be getting charged by much at all, only T6+ MCs will consider charging into 5D3 automatic AP2 hits and since they can always auto wound and cause ID on a 6 to wound its still very risky.

Anyway, first off you need a Spiritseer to unlock Wraithguard as Troops. This kinda limits you to another Spiritseer (good if you run 2 big units of Guard) or a Farseer (to Guide some stuff) as your second HQ, since an Autarch doesn't give you much if your army is on the board the whole game and the Avatar really needs a Farseer to maximise his chances of reaching combat. You also want at least 2 x 3 Jetbikes (its only 100pts, you can afford it) even in this kind of list, they let you grab objectives late rather than just sitting on them all game. Your probably could run Wraithblades as your counterpunch units if you want to stay all Wraith based, since everything is slow anyway so its not like anything can get isolated. The biggest issue with this army will be dealing with assault based hordes, since they will just drown you in bodies.

Powerguy wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

If you run the Wraithguard with D Scythes then you aren't going to be getting charged by much at all, only T6+ MCs will consider charging into 5D3 automatic AP2 hits and since they can always auto wound and cause ID on a 6 to wound its still very risky.

Anyway, first off you need a Spiritseer to unlock Wraithguard as Troops. This kinda limits you to another Spiritseer (good if you run 2 big units of Guard) or a Farseer (to Guide some stuff) as your second HQ, since an Autarch doesn't give you much if your army is on the board the whole game and the Avatar really needs a Farseer to maximise his chances of reaching combat. You also want at least 2 x 3 Jetbikes (its only 100pts, you can afford it) even in this kind of list, they let you grab objectives late rather than just sitting on them all game. Your probably could run Wraithblades as your counterpunch units if you want to stay all Wraith based, since everything is slow anyway so its not like anything can get isolated. The biggest issue with this army will be dealing with assault based hordes, since they will just drown you in bodies.

As a native Ork player I am very aware of the horde game. D-scythes take of that no problem. A unit of 5 should be able to handle a 20 boy mob.

I bought a Farseer to be a Farseer or a count as a spirit seer, I also have a spirit seer!
i have 15 wraith and i think what i will do
is 2 x D-scythe
and 1 x wraith cannon
The ap 2 and instant death of the scythe makes it very versatile even if limited range.
The heavy support slots are going to have to fill the long range shooting in this list
1 wraith knight - still cant decide on a second
1 wraith lord - still cant decide on a second, kinda wish these got squadron rules. 9 wraith lords on the table make a good Iyenden army.
I thinking of putting those fancy missile launchers on the knight and lord for some AA, Anti horde and Anti tank.
I could always just by a fighter, wish it was a wraith fighter that could take on other air craft, but the wraith one is clearly a demoralizer to make the enemy run.
Thoughts?

Powerguy wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

If you run the Wraithguard with D Scythes then you aren't going to be getting charged by much at all, only T6+ MCs will consider charging into 5D3 automatic AP2 hits and since they can always auto wound and cause ID on a 6 to wound its still very risky.

Of course. I was referring for the rest of the wraith stuff. D-Scythes are going to be beast!

Of

 warpspider89 wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

If you run the Wraithguard with D Scythes then you aren't going to be getting charged by much at all, only T6+ MCs will consider charging into 5D3 automatic AP2 hits and since they can always auto wound and cause ID on a 6 to wound its still very risky.

Of course. I was referring for the rest of the wraith stuff. D-Scythes are going to be beast!

Of

Yeah D-sytches are quite awesome. To continue my foot slogging obsession would MSU wraith work best?

 cormadepanda wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

If you run the Wraithguard with D Scythes then you aren't going to be getting charged by much at all, only T6+ MCs will consider charging into 5D3 automatic AP2 hits and since they can always auto wound and cause ID on a 6 to wound its still very risky.

Of course. I was referring for the rest of the wraith stuff. D-Scythes are going to be beast!

Of

Yeah D-sytches are quite awesome. To continue my foot slogging obsession would MSU wraith work best?

Well, I think that Wraithblades are not really necessary in an Eldar army although some Wraithguard units as troops are quite useful. Eldar has so many fire power thanks to laserlock and bladestorm such that it should be rather easy to keep the enemy at arm's length or outmaneuver him using Serpents.

Agreed! I am not in favor of Wraithblades at all. They are durable CC... but in a pinch regular WG can tie down most things for a while in CC - and they can shoot down... well... anything in theory if they are close enough. If an eldar player needs a really hard hitting CC unit then they need look no further than harlequins with kisses. Wraithblades just seem a little unnecessary in comparison.

3 units of Nurgle Spawn. List seems quite weak to tarpit tactics. IG blobs and Wracks come to mind also

cod3x wrote:
3 units of Nurgle Spawn. List seems quite weak to tarpit tactics. IG blobs and Wracks come to mind also

Instant death Ap2 weapons. Your spawn are gone. Ig blobs eat flamer as well. Wracks never fought them.

I played my list three times today.

Things to note, Long range game, wraith army lacks it, but continues to be tough.
Wraith knights are fast, and great response/aggressive leaving your few precious guard alive and well.
Flamers - I over watched and killed with 1 wound a nemesis dreadnaught. D-sycthes are a must.

Did you use transports or go pure footslogging? I ask because I too am seriously considering a Wraith list and was interested in going the foot route. The only restriction I haveis that I probably wouldn't be using a WK.

If you wouldn't mind posting your final list, I'd be interested to read it.

I am thinking along the same lines, 30 wraithguard 2 wraithlords and a wraith knight, with farseer and spiritseer to lead them, possibly two wave seperants as well

potential problems are...

nids: charge with 2 units, small unit of gaunts goes in 1st to absorb the flamers.

de: venoms and warriors poison shots drop wraithguard like they are sisters.

other eldar: just about every weapon in the eldar dex ignores the 3+ save on a 6 to wound.

triple hell turkeys

I'm looking at running a Wraith list too. Though I was going to try avoiding it, I may have to pick up a Wave Serpent or two. The more immediate threat would draw attention away from the rest of the footsloggers.
That said, I already have War Walkers that could in theory do the same thing, just without being able to carry anyone.

I think Wave Serpents are worth their points. I like the idea of d-scythe units in Wave Serpents. I know that lowers the model count even more, but foot slogging them seems like a bad idea against a lot of armies.

If wraithlords and wraithknights share a slot (we'll see what the iyanden supplement does), I don't think the WK is worth it.

So far have come up with this

Farseer with source stone
Spiritseer

5 wraithguard in WS with shurikancannon and holofields

5 wraithguard in WS with shurikancannon and holofields

7 Wraithguard

7 Wraithguard

Wraithlord with 2 scatter lasers and ghost glaive

Wraithlord with 2 scatter lasers and ghost glaive

Wraithknight

Very low model count, quite slow and very short range but hard to wound.

Dont really want a competitive top tier army, already have a few of those but want a decent army that will make me work to win, opinions?

Do any of the guard have scythes? I'd equip at least one squad in a serpent with those.

Fezman wrote:Did you use transports or go pure footslogging? I ask because I too am seriously considering a Wraith list and was interested in going the foot route. The only restriction I haveis that I probably wouldn't be using a WK.

If you wouldn't mind posting your final list, I'd be interested to read it.

Not a problem here is the list i Ran

HQ -
Spirit Seer X 4 - 280pts - i rolled only on the dang battle table! its epic for the armor bonus and healing abilities to keep wraith knights alive and well. I restored 5 wounds in my second game.

Troops -
Wraith D-scythe, five man, x2 - 420pts
Wraith Cannon, five man, x2 - 320pts

Heavy Support -
Wraith Knight - Sun cannon, shield, scatter laser x3 (300pts each) - 900pts

left with 80 pts for upgrades.

I need to learn to math.

schadenfreude wrote:potential problems are...

nids: charge with 2 units, small unit of gaunts goes in 1st to absorb the flamers.

de: venoms and warriors poison shots drop wraithguard like they are sisters.

other eldar: just about every weapon in the eldar dex ignores the 3+ save on a 6 to wound.

triple hell turkeys

Noted, Dont care, tanky as hell.

Crimson wrote:Do any of the guard have scythes? I'd equip at least one squad in a serpent with those.

Read the list above.

This list drew against dark angels and beat down grey knights. I drew against dark angels because i couldn't kill 5 scouts to table him.

Spirit Seerer x4? Don't they count against the normal FOC?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Spirit Seerer x4? Don't they count against the normal FOC?

this was a 2000 pt game, double FOC.

10-4

I'd actually try using a FW Wraithseer if you can use them where you play. It's not bad from what I've read.

Puscifer wrote:
I'd actually try using a FW Wraithseer if you can use them where you play. It's not bad from what I've read.

i will look into it.

Puscifer wrote:
I'd actually try using a FW Wraithseer if you can use them where you play. It's not bad from what I've read.

I would wait for the FW errata update because the rules and cost seem way off. 9-(

Powerguy wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

If you run the Wraithguard with D Scythes then you aren't going to be getting charged by much at all, only T6+ MCs will consider charging into 5D3 automatic AP2 hits and since they can always auto wound and cause ID on a 6 to wound its still very risky.

Yes, it's 5 wounds. Some units, like say Boyz or Daemonettes, don't give a rip about losing 5 wounds to Overwatch when it means a guaranteed kill of your unit.

Also if facing something like nice they can feed you a unit of gaunts or other fodder the safely charge with a unit that will wipe your wraiths.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
You're going to want some stuff that can cut the Wraith units out of combat like harlequins or maybe even shining spears.

If you run the Wraithguard with D Scythes then you aren't going to be getting charged by much at all, only T6+ MCs will consider charging into 5D3 automatic AP2 hits and since they can always auto wound and cause ID on a 6 to wound its still very risky.

Yes, it's 5 wounds. Some units, like say Boyz or Daemonettes, don't give a rip about losing 5 wounds to Overwatch when it means a guaranteed kill of your unit.

5 wounds is 5 models. You lost four or so inches on your charge range. Trust me, as primary ork player Overwatch more often then not does nothing to me, so i can use that 1 or 2 boys who are 3 inches away, but after that if i lost five, i am back to a 6-7inch charge it is much more likely to fail.

Wraith are tough gaks who ignore strength 3. Not much will charge them. Support them with lords and knights and you will never look at a wraith unit to charge again, you're busy with the lords and knights. I am 3/3 on this single fact. My wraith have never been charged willingly by my foe with out me wanting that charge to happen.

Velmoor wrote:Also if facing something like nice they can feed you a unit of gaunts or other fodder the safely charge with a unit that will wipe your wraiths.

You most likely destroyed that unit of gaunts. and if a MC is still there to fight, you're doing it wrong, he should of died horribly to all the wraith instant death strength 10 ap 2 shots, or been block by a lord or a knight.

Multiple flying MCs are going to be difficult for you to get at with your wraiths, other things can also mess you up and when I mention feeding you gaunts I mean the gaunts will all die, but that is fine your overwatch is then gone.

how did you even manage to close in with your opponents? how would you deal with an extreme gunline?

Velmoor wrote:Multiple flying MCs are going to be difficult for you to get at with your wraiths, other things can also mess you up and when I mention feeding you gaunts I mean the gaunts will all die, but that is fine your overwatch is then gone.

Yeah, but its ok to lose a squad of wraith, and they can stick for a turn or two.

Deshkar wrote:how did you even manage to close in with your opponents? how would you deal with an extreme gunline?

I walked bro! freaking walked. Have yet to face a extreme gun line but you gotta use the wraith knights to get up in their face, harass the lines, and then slog up with wraiths running and restoring wounds and the sort like that. Its definitely not tactically easy, you can easily be surrounded by nids if not careful, and you really got to pick your assaults over your shooting.
However, i am confident because I slogged through grey knights supreme fire of mid range, and their force weapons. It went well for me. It may not always go well.