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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 21:10:14
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Morphing Obliterator
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The questions in the title, what size of enemy force can a single SM chapter handle?
Thanks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 21:16:27
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Pretty much any size force if used properly. Space marine chapters and Chaos grand companies know better than to attack broad areas like their more plentiful normal human counterparts, and instead focus on key areas of the enemy defense or bolster key areas of their own defense. Space Marines of both loyalist and chaos varieties are well aware that as superhuman as they are; attempting the same kind of tactics that guardsmen and cultists use would typically get them killed or just not accomplish very much.
If a grand company or chapter tried a stand up set piece battle against an entire major Waaagh or Tendril fleet head on they'd be slaughtered to a man. But when used as shock troopers to probe for the weak points of the enemy and then push through and hit them where they're weakest or buff up the most critical points of their own defense efforts then they can punch far above their limited numbers would suggest they can.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/17 21:18:54
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 21:24:19
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Depends on who's writing the Marine fluff and what Chapter it is.
The Space Wolves can, apparently, defeat an entire Sector battle-group, an Ecclesiarchy battlegroup, and an Inquisitorial fleet.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/17 21:31:55
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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I agree that a chapter can handle a threat of basically any size, assuming they have the choice of battlefield. If they have to defend an area, they will need to create a choke point such that their enemy can only bring a small part of their force to bear at any time. If they're attacking, they will need to stalk and observe the enemy for a time to find an opportunity for a decapitation strike at the enemy's weakest point, usually either their leadership or their logistics. If they're being attacked and have the option of retreating, they may need to just retreat and perform harrying strikes until the status quo shifts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 00:30:28
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Realistically they can maybe conquer a continent. In GW fluff they can take on multiple planets by themselves.
Edit: Now that I think about it. 1000 marines, regardless of how powerful they are will have trouble controlling more than one decent sized city.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/18 00:32:39
The Tick: Everybody was a baby once, Arthur. Oh, sure, maybe not today, or even yesterday. But once. Babies, chum: tiny, dimpled, fleshy mirrors of our us-ness, that we parents hurl into the future, like leathery footballs of hope. And you've got to get a good spiral on that baby, or evil will make an interception. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 01:41:47
Subject: Re:What can a SM chapter handle?
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Hellish Haemonculus
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I think that in this case, taking and controlling is vastly different than defeating. They excel at surgical strikes into the heart of enemy territory in order to capture vital assets or to behead the enemy command. They're less excellent at holding positions for longterm engagements.
Yes, they would have difficulty controlling even a large city, assuming armed rebellion or armed invasion was widespread. They are capable of defeating entire worlds or even empires, however, by crushing the heart of their enemy rather than fighting through the entirety of their army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 03:01:32
Subject: Re:What can a SM chapter handle?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Really depends on what sources one would be looking at. Let's keep in mind that the entirety of 40k is just countless interpretations.
That being said, I think this GW quote sums up their purpose best:
"The Space Marines are the Imperium's elite fighting troops, a core of highly mobile shock troops trained to fight on land and in space. On the battlefield they are expected to take part in the most dangerous and important attacks, to hold their positions no matter how hopeless their situation. Space Marines are entrusted with all sorts of perilous missions, such as lightning raids behind enemy lines, infiltration attacks to capture vital positions, and tunnel fights in enemy held cities. They also undertake long voyages of planetary exploration and conquest on behalf of the Imperium, earmarking planets which are too well defended so that they can be attacked later with the support of the Imperial Guard."
- Inquisitor RPG
And then of course there is Rogal Dorn's quote about "100 Space Marines = 1000 other troops".
But, as already mentioned, there is no single answer to this question. It remains a matter of personal preferences, as most things in this franchise.
Psienesis wrote:The Space Wolves can, apparently, defeat an entire SectorSegmentum battle-group, an Ecclesiarchy battlegroup, and an Inquisitorial fleet.
Fixed that for you.
Fluff as ridiculous as that begs to get called out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 03:12:00
Subject: Re:What can a SM chapter handle?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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“Many find it utterly preposterous that a realm so vast as the Imperium should rely so completely upon only a million or so Space Marines to defend it against the untold horrors of
the galaxy. These fools ask, ‘if the Imperium is made up of more than a million worlds, how can but one Space Marine defend each?’
They have no conception of the application of strategic power. They do not understand how but one battle can turn the tide of war in the same manner as one sniper’s bullet can end a tyranny. The Space Marines do not fight protracted campaigns or engage in wars of attrition; they launch lightning strikes where their presence will tip the balance. While the uncounted masses of the Imperial Guard engage in century spanning wars in which millions lay down their lives to advance but a mile, the Space Marines carry the fight to the very heart of the enemy. By cutting out that heart, by brandishing it before his eyes even as he dies, by crushing it to a pulp before his cowering followers, the Space Marines win the battles that win the wars that win the crusades that ultimately decide the balance of power in the entire galaxy.”
–Discourses on the Seventy-Nine Truths of Statecraft
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 03:28:25
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Really it depends on the author.
A lot, is a fair answer.
Apparently the only thing they can't manage is routine maintenance on their own fortress-monastery's ground to space missiles
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 11:18:41
Subject: Re:What can a SM chapter handle?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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The Crimson Fists survived an Ork Waaagh, barely however...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/18 11:18:51
Templars - 4500pts
Excoriators - 1500pts
Catachan 1074th- 2000
Zeal is its own excuse |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 15:28:23
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Surviving and being able to handle are not the same thing however. Without the Fortress Monastery and its defences the Crimson Fists fleet was unable to prevent the Orks making planetfall (also whether they could have stopped the fleet with the Fortress Monastery is debatable).
If memory serves the EPIC 40,000 Battles book put the Imperial relief force to retake the Rynn's World at two Imperial Army Groups and two Titan Legions with two Space Marine chapters just to establish the beach-head.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/18 17:00:29
Subject: What can a SM chapter handle?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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Gargantuan wrote:Realistically they can maybe conquer a continent. In GW fluff they can take on multiple planets by themselves.
Edit: Now that I think about it. 1000 marines, regardless of how powerful they are will have trouble controlling more than one decent sized city.
Conquering and controlling are a really different concepts, if we use Iraq as an example.
The initial push to Baghdad was ridiculously fast. The Iraqi government was toppled, its army neutralized, and the desired territory gained.
Holding it and policing it was the problem. We'll ignore the particulars of it. But the land campaign was executed almost flawlessly.
That's what Space Marines do. They break stuff. 1000 Space Marines couldn't police a planet. But that's not their job. Their job is to execute surgical strikes at the campaign level, and eliminate key points of resistance. The Guard exists to hold territory. It's kinda why I chuckle every time a Space Marine chapter is suggested as being masters of siege tactics, or defensive warfare. As if they'd ever be used as such to the point where they'd be specialists in it. I mean, I'm sure Space Marines all know how to set up defensive positions, and are a pain in the butt to root out and kill when they do.
When there are quotes from guys like Dorn about the effectiveness of Space Marines, it's not on a 1 for 1 basis. It's literally how a concentrated effort of Space Marines can be so much more effective if used in the right place at the right time, than a significantly larger amount of troops that might not be able to literally fit the same amount of offensive power in the same battlespace. Basically, it's about scale. 100,000 Imperial Guardsmen with all their accompanying artillery and air power and armor and even appropriate fleet assets, is going to project a lot more total firepower than a Space Marine Chapter. However, consider how much space 100,000 Guardsmen takes up, and how they would have to be deployed to bring that firepower to bear on any given place. If that's even possible.
And the poor Crimson fists. They're one of the few chapters still plagued by fluff written during the Rogue Trader era, lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/06/21 07:35:46
Subject: Re:What can a SM chapter handle?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Step 1: Ram enemy with Battle-barge.
Step 2: Detonate warp drives, Dominius Astra-style.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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