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So I picked up my wave 1 ships yesterday's and I was looking through everything and it really his me that ATTACK PATTERN OMEGA is really too good for only 3 points. To instantly give someone a WARP CORE BREACH if you score a crit for only 3 points. That is ridiculously good for captains like Khan, Toreth, or anyone using Drex for a crew.

3 points is too few when other elite talents are much higher. Seriously 4 points for an extra attack die on FORWARD DISRUPTOR BANKS, requires an action & disable. COCHRAN MANEUVER 5 pts to do a 1 come about.

I think this might be my first true grip with the game, but I could see this popping up as much a Picard in everyother list. What does anyone else think?

APO is good, and probably should have cost about 4 pts.

I'm not thinking of running it at all yet, to be honest. The damage has to be done to the hull, Warp Core Breach is a very swingy card, doing nothing for turn after turn or decimating a ship asap, you only get to use APO once AND it's unique. There are a lot of restrictions on this one that make it iffy.

My issue with APO is that it's not consistent. I typically want to invest in upgrades that consistently do the thing I want them to do, so long as I don't fly my ships like an idiot. Picard, Sulu, Martok, Donatra, Terell- consistent. APO either does nothing, because WCB does nothing, or it destroys a ship with a crit on it a few turns faster than it should have. Is it better than a well placed Cloaked Mine? Does it do nothing against Polarized Hull? (Which I think is amazing for cloaked ships).

I agree that it can be situational, but combine it with things that do an auto crit like khan toreth and drex it is pretty devistating. Khan or toreth near with APO and ferengi missile launcher? You sunk my battle ship!

It's probably one of those things you need to test out. I bet it's ultimately underwhelming, but I could be wrong. If you're finding that it's consistently good, let me know. It is absolutely one of the best pilot talents in the game so far, I agree with that.

In comparison, Attack Pattern Delta is very underwhelming, so you certainly have an argument that APO is undercosted.

My biggest problem is it is 3 points and no drawback. ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH, is discarded an action & no defend dice for 5pts. FORWARD DISRUPTOR BANKS, action & disable for 4pts. COCHRAN MANEUVER, action & auxiliary power token for 5 pts.

The way it's worded APO should be 5 maybe 6 points. Ideally I would have liked to see it be 4pts, discard & take auxiliary power token.

I will keep you posted if it starts popping up a lot. 2 OPs in my area next week so we shall see.

For OP2, im planning on running a Klingon Fleet with Polarized Plating on the Neg'Var and Cloaked Mines. Those upgrades are fantastic on klingon ships.

Although, think about this list... which I think would be nuts

Valdore 28
Donatra 4
Polarized Hull

Valdore 28
Captain
Polarized Hull
Cloaked Mines

Valdore 28
Captain
Polarized Hull
Cloaked Mines

Tell me that's not the best cloaking list out there. It would cost a pretty penny though.

You are going to have to scratch that list cloaked mines & hull plating are tech upgrades. Both valdor & valdor class have NO tech slots. Named valdor has 2 weapons and two crew generic 1 weapon 2 crew. D'deridex has 1 tech slot, as does vorcha & negvar. Only ship with 2 tech slots is the praetus.

ZOMG you're right. That list is garbage. Throw it out with the trash! This is why you shouldn't make lists off the top of your head!

Don't feel bad bro, I do it all the time. In down time at work I think I have come up with a killer list, get home and find out that it won't work. It is odd though that the valdor has no tech slots don't you think? That is where all of the romulan advantages are.

yeah, i keep forgetting that the Valdore doesn't have tech slots. I came up with something last night that I think will work.

Neg'Var
Martok
Polarized Plating

Vorcha
Gowron
Cloaked Mines

Kronos One
Donatra
Cloaked Mines

possible 18 attack dice and add in extras for the cloaked mines.

Hate to rain on the parade again but Kronos One/K'tinga has no tech slots either, weapons and crew only. I was goimg for something similar myself until I opened up kronos one last night.

Here is what I am toying with:
26 vorcha
5 matok
5 once more unton the breach
4 interphase generator
26 vorcha
4 gowron
4 interphase generator
14 praetus
4 donatra
3 mines
5 plasma torpedoes
100 total

I play tested last night with a similar build, negvars instead of vorchas and no plasma torpedoes. Not impressed with ONCE MORE UNTO, blanks are still blanks. Might ditch it and go back to negvars, but going tomplay test again today.

Oh I wrote that wrong. Are you sure the vorcha doesn't have tech slots? I'm pretty sure it does.

Neg'Var
Martok
Polarized Plating

Vorcha
Gowron
Cloaked Mines

Kronos One
Donatra

Vorchas have them, k'tingas don't.

Keeping on theme of wave 1 releases...

Weyoun- disable Weyoun to prevent one of your crew upgrades from being discarded or disabled.

Dr. McCoy- Disable to allow one of your crew upgrades to perform it's action as a free action.

Disable Weyoun, take your action, use Dr. McCoy to get a free action, don't discard McCoy, get a free crew action.

Now you just need a way to reenable Weyoun every turn- HELLO MARTOK.

That's a ship with three actions per turn. Do I have this wrong?

Looks right to me. However wayoun and mcCoy only work on crew cards. So the jem hadar ship only has 1 crew slot so that is out. some klingon ships have two. Wayoun on the mah'tha with drex yes please, the klingons no have battle stations. And with klingons I am sure martok will be near by for those free action. All that being said it is a lot invested. The wayoun/mccoy combo is really only worth it on a klingon or federation ship. Plus don't forget you will be shooting last, when wayoun is disabled the ship goes down to captain skill 1.

It is not a bad combo, but I would have to give it some serious thought before committing to it. For klingons that is a 9 point investment, wayoun 5 (4+1), maccoy 4 (3+1), some better stuff out there for 9 pts, plus the 2nd crew member. Now the defiant with sulu, mccoy and wayoun, that might work. The combo would work well with starter set worf also.

I changed the thread title to be more appropriate for more wider discussion.

Yeah, Weyoun would be fine with the JemHadar dudes, but he'd really shine in a Federation ship.

I can't check BGG at work, so I don't know if Parks has answered whether you can use the same crew member twice in the same turn. If so, I'm looking at Scotty and McCoy and Weyoun making a very exploitable Defiant. Get out of their Firing Arcs and power up the Defiant to attack 6, fly away and repair all your shields. Could be nuts.

I have not seen any thing on that, but but it might fall under the rule you can not perfom the same action twice.