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Hello,


My best friend is currently in the process of switching from Necrons to Chaos Space Marines, my Wolves have been doing decently well against him, but with his new chaos undivided army,
I'm trying to look ahead for any tactical advantages the Wolves can achieve, and any pitfalls I need to watch out for. As I understand it in the new edition of the Chaos Space Marines Codex, they've been given some pretty exciting and tough options. Any advice out there?

Cower all your marines close together, to admire the flying birdie coming towards them.

so some very interesting units to look out for:

obliterators-have drop pods or something mobile that can drop down and kill these 2+ 5++ 2 wound models before they can start wracking up a death toll with their arsenal of weapons
heldrakes-have something that can take these AV12 5++ save flyers down, like quad gun, ML long fangs
cultists-have something that can remove many models at once like vindicators
rhinos-many troops are reliant on rhinos. Have several light anti-armor choices to pop these turn 2.
abby-if hes undivided he will likely take abby and some mutilators/terminators, and he will either deep strike them in or use a land raider to send em in. Have a response to this terminator death squad.

Most of the CSM codex save for the heavy supports need to get very close to you to do damage. Use your superior range to your advantage

Urgh, that's all just such horrible advice:
MLs and quad guns are possibly the worst way to take down a heldrake. If you make the assumption that the drake wouldn't incinerate the 3 squads of long fangs in 2 turns (which it would), then you're looking at more than 6 turns to strip hull points with 15 ML shots per turn. Not to mention all that would cost around 3 times as much as a single heldrake.
If you want to take down a heldrake you need to spam melta or bring vendettas. Not really any other way.

Secondly: vindicators...for cultists? A str:10 ap:2 blast to deal with something that bolters would tear to pieces? Terrible idea. You'll wound more rapid firing with grey hunters and they'd get exactly the same cover save. Plus you can stroll onto the objective they were camping after.

Because of heldrakes, chaos are a terrible match up for wolves. The only serious chance I've had is drop podding and getting into cc (or doing as much damage in an alpha stroke as I can) before the heldraks remove a squad of marines each turn. Cc isn't a hugely strong area but drops pods are.
Meching up is ok...but don't expect to sit in the metal boxes for long before the heldrakes have their effect.

Thanks for the replies,


I posted my list in the Army List section, I was thinking I would be able to deal with a Helldrake through dedicated Lascannon Fire from my Dreadnought and my Long Fangs, though from what I've heard
that seems much easier said than done. I am beginning to understand that in 6th edition Space Wolves are overpowered by almost all armies with a newer Codex, but I play for fun and although I love to win, I get a hell of a lot of enjoyment from just putting an army on the board and fighting it out.
How would Wolf guard Terminators stand up to Chaos terminators? I have mine equipped with TH/SS, accompanied by my WL with frost blade, storm bolter, and wolf tooth necklace, but they are relatively few in number (4 WG + WL), assuming the Chaos dreads will have access to plenty more disgusting CC options and upgrades than I can take, would I be a fool to pit my WG/WL against them?

Thanks again.

Buck wrote:

Thanks for the replies,


I posted my list in the Army List section, I was thinking I would be able to deal with a Helldrake through dedicated Lascannon Fire from my Dreadnought and my Long Fangs, though from what I've heard
that seems much easier said than done. I am beginning to understand that in 6th edition Space Wolves are overpowered by almost all armies with a newer Codex, but I play for fun and although I love to win, I get a hell of a lot of enjoyment from just putting an army on the board and fighting it out.
How would Wolf guard Terminators stand up to Chaos terminators? I have mine equipped with TH/SS, accompanied by my WL with frost blade, storm bolter, and wolf tooth necklace, but they are relatively few in number (4 WG + WL), assuming the Chaos dreads will have access to plenty more disgusting CC options and upgrades than I can take, would I be a fool to pit my WG/WL against them?

Thanks again.

WG are far superior to chosen in terms of cost and CC punch. Termies it's up in the air, though TH/SS is not the best format for them

How do your elites look? Running 3 lone wolves in that format is slightly cheaper then 5 termies in the same way, and is much stronger IMO.

One of the most competitive lists for space wolves is drop pod spam. Dreads, termies, wg, and troops all in pods, with rune priests and long fangs on the field shooting long range firepower down field. It has a strong alpha strike and mitigates one of the weaknesses of SW, fliers.

There are IG allies as well, for a vendetta squadron.

Cheers!

My elites are currently 1 squad of WG, spread out through my GH and SwiftClaw Bikers, the remaining 4 taking TDA and forming my Wolf Lord's retinue, and a Dreadnought with TL LC and ML.

I have definitely been looking into switching my Rhinos to Drop pods, it certainly seems like a much better option. Would you place a Rune Priest in a squad of Long Fangs? Or does he function best as an IC?

I'm also thinking of removing the WG from my GH packs, so that I can push them up to squads of 10 and take a second special weapon (PG) in each, having them come down in drop pods. Also I am considering removing my Whirlwind and replacing it with another 6 man LF squad. After reading some of the replies to my questions it seems like that is a much stronger choice.

Thanks again for all the help.

Buck wrote:

Cheers!

My elites are currently 1 squad of WG, spread out through my GH and SwiftClaw Bikers, the remaining 4 taking TDA and forming my Wolf Lord's retinue, and a Dreadnought with TL LC and ML.

I have definitely been looking into switching my Rhinos to Drop pods, it certainly seems like a much better option. Would you place a Rune Priest in a squad of Long Fangs? Or does he function best as an IC?

I'm also thinking of removing the WG from my GH packs, so that I can push them up to squads of 10 and take a second special weapon (PG) in each, having them come down in drop pods. Also I am considering removing my Whirlwind and replacing it with another 6 man LF squad. After reading some of the replies to my questions it seems like that is a much stronger choice.

Thanks again for all the help

Generally you want to run priests in pods or babysitting LFs
1) drop pods, take Jotww. This works really well against tau, orks, cross
2) 1-2 casting divination on LFs. Generally I find this is only worth it on Lascannon squads, or squads carrying ML's that have a TDA Cyclone missile launcher leader attached, as their increase in points makes them more viable.

I suggest removing the whirlwind and the WG if running pods. I tend to do better with whirlwinds personally, but I am known for rolling garbage to hit with fangs and my experiences are very atypical. In pods the initial shooting is really important.

If you have spare points, take a WG with a combi plas.

Buck wrote:

Thanks for the replies,


I posted my list in the Army List section, I was thinking I would be able to deal with a Helldrake through dedicated Lascannon Fire from my Dreadnought and my Long Fangs, though from what I've heard
that seems much easier said than done. I am beginning to understand that in 6th edition Space Wolves are overpowered by almost all armies with a newer Codex, but I play for fun and although I love to win, I get a hell of a lot of enjoyment from just putting an army on the board and fighting it out.
How would Wolf guard Terminators stand up to Chaos terminators? I have mine equipped with TH/SS, accompanied by my WL with frost blade, storm bolter, and wolf tooth necklace, but they are relatively few in number (4 WG + WL), assuming the Chaos dreads will have access to plenty more disgusting CC options and upgrades than I can take, would I be a fool to pit my WG/WL against them?

Thanks again.

The following is just my opinion - take it as such.

Wolf Guard Termis. The only storm shield that should show up on wolf guard terminators is if you bring Arjac. And Arjac is a beast of a guy. He is 50ish more points than two TH/SS but you loose nothing by taking him and gain a whole bunch. First since you run your wolf lord with that unit, Arjac can take on all challenges and leave your WL to wreck face. Arjac will also do very well at wrecking face in most challenges. As such you need to kit out your Wolf Lord for maximum killing. That means getting as much HTH goodness out of him. If your taking a frost blade, drop the storm bolter and just use a bolt pistol. The extra attack in HTH will probably serve you better than the shooting. You might also want to consider the Saga of the Warrior Born. It just adds to his killing since Arjac is still absorbing all challenges.

The other terminators should just be stock. SW termis are a steal at their price even with their basic loadout. Heck you can almost get another terminator for the cost of each SS you were previously taking. Also there is no reason for them to have Thunder Hammers over powerfists. You only need one Thunder hammer to get the benefits and everyone past the first is just wasted points. Even after that, to save even more points they come stock with power Axes if you want. Still solves your AP2 issue, but at no additional points. They still have a 5+ inv save, and the extra bodies you can take instead of SS pretty closely makes up the difference and you get to do more swinging and killing.

My personal WG termi unit looks like this.

Arjac
x2 WGTDA w/ wolf claw and p-fist
WGTDA stock model - power sword
WGTDA with Chainfist and Heavy Flamer
PAWG stock
PAWG combi flamer

This unit wrecks face with whatever it hits. It has enough at iniative hits to reduce strike backs, it has enough AP2 to play clean up easily. And the two flamers thin out large horde type units very nicely before the charge. Drop the two bullet catchers (PAWG) and they fit nicely into a Drop Pod. If I was running your load out I'd drop the stock WGTDA guy to make room for your Lord.