C:SM Terminators, vs CSM terminators.

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**raiden**

ok, so, for 225 points, in SM dex you get 5 T4, models with str 8 attacks 3++.

for 245 points you get 5 CSM terminators at T5 (MoN) str 8 attacks 5++ IIRC (or for 240, pts T4 w/ 4++) and combi-plasmas around.

which of these units, in your opinion does better overall?

**ZebioLizard2**

the SM will be doing more wounds, and saving more, the CSM will do better at range but still they'll be killed by Plasma guns just as easily so it doesn't matter.

**Musashi363**

Chaos all the way. Between the versatility of the power weapons and the firepower of combi-weapons, chaos rules. This is the shooty edition and chaos terminators out shoot their loyalist counterparts by a wide margin.

**Silverthorne**

I think the loyalists are better. T5 doesn't really matter when most of the time its plasma melta or lascannons that is killing you. Or I guess grav now as well. In the example above, for instance, I see the loyalists killing off the CSM as likely. Plus they cost less.

**nosferatu1001**

If the CSMs get to shoot, in a vacuum, they will likely kill off the loyalists - 10 plasma shots, even with a 3++, drops you to 3ish loyalists. You then have one loyalist with a powersword (dont think he can take a hammer?), so assume he is dead for simplicity. With neither charging the loyalists should lose another 2 - 3 and die, to the chaos side losing (with a 4++) 2

Chaos still lose not in a vacuum though. Too many points to not be fearless / ATSKNF, so one whiffed combat or good round of shooting from an opponent and theyre likely dead.

**avedominusnox**

Different uses different opinions. You can't actually find out what's best. Yes TH/SS are bread and butter in LRCR and if you stick a termie Libby in there you can rock. But how about 3 CSM termie squad with combi meltas? That's 110 pts of 3 shots that can kill a vehicles. And they come with p.axes.

**Homeskillet**

Grey Knight Termies are better than both! Post ninja'ed! Hiyah!

**Kosake**

Chaos terms. Combi-flamers are dirt-cheap. Couple Flamers, couple meltas, 2 Reaper Cannons and let the rapetrain depart. Reapers dismantle thin-skinned vehicles, 3-4 templates incincerate any horde and the meltas make heavy armor think twice about going too close.

**PredaKhaine**

I do that - but I mark mine as slaanesh. That way, my maces normally hit first and can take the sting out of a squad. And I get FNP. I lead the squad with Abaddon...who also gains the benefit of fnp

**JezuzJonez**

5 Chaos Terms with Mark of Khorne, 5 Combi-Plas, power axes and Icon of Wrath is 224 points. That gets you 20 str 6 attacks on the charge, rerolling distance with the added bonus of plasma all for a point cheaper... Without a decent invul

**BaconUprising**

The things that will be attacking/shooting chaos terminators won't give a shiitt about toughness 5 so I would always go with the 4++ better shooting cuts it for me tbh. Assault terminators just don't have enough uses for me anymore in current meta.

**Freman Bloodglaive**

Chaos Terminators, mark of Tzeentch, combi-plasma, power axe (no point in wasting points on power fists if you don't have to).

Note this the only kind of unit I'd give the MoT to, they actually have an invulnerable to start with.

A unit of 5 is 209 points. They wouldn't be assaulting hammernators, they'd just walk away pelting them with extreme range bolter shots. If the hammernators did manage to get within charge range the Chaos Terminators would then move in, double tap their plasma guns, and then charge.