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Artillery seem that i should be taking it over anything else in my list . as i run a tank company to hit hard and fast i just don't see how artillery will help me people say use smoke but i see it will hinder me as much as my opponent and be a liebilty that i have to protect and the play defense instead of attacking

You don't have to take full units of artillery for them to effectively use smoke; it only takes a minimum of two guns to create any sort of smoke cloud, and their distance from the main fighting should give you enough time for it to do the job.

You also don't have to go all out to protect them - prioritise. If your opponent is going out of his way to take out 2 or 3 guns that cost perhaps 100-150pts in total, then he's diverting firepower away from the more lethal units. Artillery taken for smoke shouldn't be seen as throw-away, but also shouldn't rank very highly when it comes to force preservation. The only time it matters is if the loss of your arty would expose an objective to a quick capture, in which case your priority should not be to protect the artillery, but to eliminate the threat of an objective cap - a task you'd need to do regardless of whether the artillery was there or not.

What it sounds like you're doing is treating your artillery like a golden asset. As a tank company, if you're babysitting your artillery then you're neither playing to your list's advantages, nor your artillery's. The smoke is meant to cover an advance by blocking the LoS of threatening gun teams and tanks, or to smoke out a spotter for opposing artillery - there is little reason for you to be hanging back as a tank company, especially when your artillery's strength lies in helping you push forward, and either pinning the enemy in place for you, or drawing him out into the open by blocking his LoS.

All that said, artillery isn't as much of an auto-include as you might think in tank lists. Yes, there are lots of advantages to smoke, but sometimes you need even the few points a bare-bones unit of smoke-lobbers would take up, especially British 25pdrs, which lack the both the skill and low cost of German Nebs, and the firepower of US 105mms. Nebs can be cheap enough to throw into nearly any German list, and US 105mms actually have a fair chance at doing damage, with 4+ FP as opposed to the 5+ of British 25pdrs. The latter's only real advantage in a tank company is smoke, but sometimes it's just too costly to warrant, usually when trying to build a decent Conf-Vet list.

Avatar pretty much nailed it on the head. I only used artillery in certain lists. Mostly with infantry. It was great to lay down smoke to screen an assault or to block line of sight for move or fire units. With tanks I ran Germans who typically had better range and survivability at long range so I didn't use it much and just engaged targets with massed fire.

Great post Avatar, like he says they don't have to be a 'golden asset' but they can definitely be useful (and fun!) to include. I normally use 3 Priests for my US, definitely find it useful for smoke and the occasional shot at something that is exposed.

I only run artillery in armour lists if its really cheap or if I already have a soild list but even then I would still only take the cheapest possible option. It is after all only there to barrage smoke and pin gun teams, even a mortar section can do that.

I just feel if iam going to use any arty i should be taking as many guns as i can so i can kill something. It seems more useful to use barge then to lay smoke.

The problem with arty is that it is too expensive. Artillery usually have a high AT value (but are generally poor in an anti tank role, which bumps up their price considerably. With that in mind its rarely worth taking more than the minimum that you need or better yet taking mortars.

I guess as still a new player i can't get my head around why to use smoke and also assaulting any thing i rather shot and move over blinding my self with smoke

zilka86 wrote:
I guess as still a new player i can't get my head around why to use smoke and also assaulting any thing i rather shot and move over blinding my self with smoke

Shooting dug-in infantry usually doesn't work very well, particularly if they have a way of shooting back. You need to get in and dig them out with assaults.



Artillery does a few key things -


1.) Perhaps the single most important thing that it does is that it discourages your opponent from bunching his troops up. Sure, you probably won't kill a tank with any given barrage. But it only takes one barrage where you get extremely lucky and wipe out an entire tank platoon. That sort of experience tends to leave mental scars on your opponents, and they'll probably spread out after that to minimize the number of teams that get caught under the template. And spread out teams have a harder time concentrating their strength against a single location.

2.) Dropping smoke barrages on enemy teams. Obviously this option isn't available to the Soviets, but it's available to everyone else. And it's extremely potent when used properly. For instance, say that you're going up against a full-strength platoon of Panthers with your platoon of M4 Shermans. You've managed to flank them, and you estimate that you can probably kill a couple of them during your shooting phase. But then the return fire from his remaining three Panthers is going to cause serious problems for your Shermans. If you can drop smoke in such a way that three of the five Panthers can't see your Shermans (and vice versa, obviously), then suddenly the odds look much better. And while he can move out of the smoke screen to shoot you, he'll then get the reduced moving rate of fire. Additionally, it can be used to isolate teams in an assault, and make it impossible for outlying teams to provide defensive fire. Or you can smoke an assault target, and provide your own assaulting teams with impromptu concealment to help reduce casualties from defensive fire.

3.) Artillery automatically pins infantry and gun teams. Even the Soviet infantry blobs of DOOM!! can't use their massive numbers to avoid this. One hit, even from a measily little mortar, and the target is pinned. This can be important when you're busy figuring out ways to carry out your glorious plans for victory, while simultaneously preventing the enemy from performing his dastardly and evil schemes against you.

4.) And, of course, artillery occasionally kills stuff.

As a Japanese player Artillery is among the most valuable things in my lists. I dont play tanks though and frankly I dont see why using them in a tank list would be effective.

I use mine because im always attacking, my guns can move very quickly at night (Witch is when im always attacking) and it pins the enemy before assault. Add that with the fact my artillery works as mortars (only need two guns) its a must have for me. I use my arty to pin units that my HMGs cant reach.

In short I think it entirely depends on your army and then what kind of battles you do.

How is pinning useful next trun the move like normal any how

They have to pass a morale check to move forwards and their shooting is penalised. Pinning is very useful.

Artillery doesn't automatically pin with bombardments, they need to get at least 1 hit.

As I see it, artillery has two major uses.

The first is to smoke key enemy units.

The second is to pin an enemy as preparation for an assault.

Also, don't underestimate the effects of pinning in general. Fearless units might laugh at bombardments, but it can be downright nasty for Reluctant units that cannot easily unpin again.


Personally, I don't like the idea of having artillery on the table - they just don't fit the scale. But I usually try to bring a handful of mortars with the above-mentioned objectives in mind.

General German pre-assault round up. I like to have a battery of guns with a staff team, and a cheap battery of rockets, or mortars.

I like Stug's with tank riders. Done right they will plow through hordes of soviets like a hot knife through butter.

zilka86 wrote:
I guess as still a new player i can't get my head around why to use smoke and also assaulting any thing i rather shot and move over blinding my self with smoke

Artillery is the easiest way besides assaults that Tank lists have of removing dug in infantry.

Tanks can just use their main guns or assault to get rid of infantry, but that is risky. Tanks are vulnerable to assaults, even if the enemy doesn't have specific anti-tank weapons. You'll roll a 1 eventually. Either the enemy will assault while you sit close by shooting them(you'll need to be close to reliably hit) or you'll assault them yourself.

Artillery can pound a position with a reliable firepower till the infantry are weak enough and relatively safe from direct retaliation.


Smoke is also useful. You can cover your tanks advance from enemy artillery or anti-tank guns. Or you can force enemy tanks to move to shoot you(reducing their RoF)

All i can say is,.All i need is some infantry and Arty.Seriously i have a American Arty park that i use for my Glider rifles.12 105 and 4 155s.

You can have damn near whole lists of it, The Herman Goering Division had an Artillery List with Recce, for Italy which was terrifyingly random. It either tabled you, or was completely ineffective, no middle ground...



105mm point blank to the Face!

I just started flames of war recently too and I had this exact same thought with artillery. It seems very underwhelming but I try to mash it into my 7th AD tank list just because everyone says it is great and because the M7 Priests look so amazing.

I've found it isn't absolutely essential but I am thinking down the line if I ever play competitively it will have to be something I revisit.

Bill Wilcox... one of the best Flames of War players out there... runs a 7th AD list at around 1650 points with no tank destroyers and 6 M7 Priests. I'm guessing he is doing it right and we are doing it wrong.

But who is to say that no artillery isn't fun? If you aren't all about optimization and just like enjoying your units then I don't see a need for it.

However, you may want to consider taking an armoured mortar platoon. They are cheap and do provide that smoke you need.

What they bring in bill's list is not just AOP spotted Time on target goodness (seriously ToT vs trained tanks is just brilliant!) the guns are mobile smoke/breakthrough guns - both are excellent options, and more importantly the 'ninja' Sherman OP's two shermans (as you take two sets of three) who have multiple MG's and a main gun + all the benefits of cautious movement.

It's not just about the artillery there

My Priests saved a game for me once.

My opponent had rushed a Stug platoon forward and had engaged the small platoon of Shermans I had holding an objective, but they ignored the Priests.

Then on my turn the Priests rolled up and blasted those Stugs in the side armor. 2+ fire power surprised my opponent and made the Stugs run for the hills.

You can't always measure the usefulness of a unit by how much it will kill. Artillery is a force multiplier, you use it to make your other units more effective.

Smoke shuts down your opponent's line of sight. The first time your tanks have to spend 1 or 2 turns crossing open ground under fire from powerful AT will make you wish you had smoke to block their LoS!

Smoke & pinning are used right before you send in your assaults. Even tank forces will need to assault. The smoke screen makes your forces harder to hit with defensive fire (+1 for concealment) and pinning down any enemy unit greatly reduces its shooting. So, you face less defensive fire that has a harder time hitting you.