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I'm starting a new campaign with my buds. One of the scenarios involves a "uncontrolled faction" in terms of offense and defense which is the hardest non colossal to kill.

So "best" as in "hardest to kill"? Probably a Demolisher or Devastator from Khador. They have ARM 25 when they don´t attack, that´s a tough nut to crack.
If you are looking for raw damage Mulg from Trollbloods is a solid pick.

The best non character beast is the bronze back. There is nothing it cant kill and its defensive stats are pretty good too.

If you are taking buffs into account, a Centurion under AS and pStryker's feat is probably the highest armour in the game, or pretty damn close. It sits at ARM 29 with those buffs. Really, just 'feth it, I'm going to attack something else' territory. Even for a Bronzeback I reckon

This really depends on what kind of support and buffs the Warjack or Warbeast gets.

I'm thinking just straight up no buffs but I want it to be hard so I can buff them but I don't want it unkillable. Also I'm including said jack/beast shooting as well. I forgot to write that in there.

In that case I think the defender is a pretty decent all rounder. Particularly against other jacks, with it's shock hammer. And if there's no need to engage directly, it will win every time.

In terms of both offense and defense, the skorne bronzeback titan and legion of everblight angellius are both pretty great all around. They both like other beasts' animii around and both can easily be taken in pairs or even trios. The bronzeback has more bulk but an angellius with tenacity has stats way off the curve that normal anti-heavy models are accustomed to dealing with. The angellius also has a ranged threat and a longer melee threat to make up for the bronzeback's unparalleled damage potential. Either has the ability to beatback/overtake through a unit but reach on the angellius gives him an edge there.

It sounds like defensive abilities might be more important to the game you are playing. In that case The khador clamjacks, cygnar centurion, and skorne's Tiberion character beast are probably the best.

Toughest with a gun is probably the spriggan or demolisher. The angellius again becomes a contender with tenacity.

Will jacks be getting focus support? If not, then the Avatar of Menoth - gives itself focus, board control, ARM 21 (while shield is intact), high natural POW and MAT means buffs are fully unnecessary.

If you have some focus support (1 focus a turn, say) then any if the Khadorian clam jacks - ARM 25, and they can stay closed while doing tramples and slams - without the one focus though, no power attacks and they suck for damage output.

Tiberion (from skorne) is also a real hard nut to crack.

For non-character war jacks, you could also look at the spriggan or Templar for ARM 21 goodness, while keeping decent reach weapons.

Best Warjack: Deathjack. Not really a contest there.
Mr. I-get-my-own-focus-and-can-cast-spells!

 motyak wrote:
If you are taking buffs into account, a Centurion under AS and pStryker's feat is probably the highest armour in the game, or pretty damn close. It sits at ARM 29 with those buffs. Really, just 'feth it, I'm going to attack something else' territory. Even for a Bronzeback I reckon

Lets see. Bronzeback with Enrage and Abuse. Pow21 on the fists, pow20 on tusks.

Dice minus 8. Leaves an average of 2 damage on the charge attack, and 1 on each other attack to account for dice spikes.

Tusk initial, second initial, chain-attack headbutt, 5 bought attacks, average of 10 damage. Yeah, the Centurion will almost certainly survive. But will still have taken some damage. Enough to potentially cripple a system. And a dice spike in the right place could see the shield taken out early which would increase the damage of following attacks.

So Strykers feat basically buys the Centurion a turn but nothing more.


And the highest armor in the game goes to Terminus. He can easily get to 30+ for 2 turns.

Highest natural armor goes to Khador Clam-jacks. Base 25, and that is why Khador has no arm buffs.

Dedwrekka wrote:
Best Warjack: Deathjack. Not really a contest there.
Mr. I-get-my-own-focus-and-can-cast-spells!

Depends. If we're talking point-for-point here, the Reckoner gives even Deathjack a run for his money on value.

In terms of non-character warjacks, the Reckoner is the best non-collosal warjack in the game. Hands down, end of story. It's really in a league of it's own in terms of sheer value. Nothing else even comes close.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 motyak wrote:
If you are taking buffs into account, a Centurion under AS and pStryker's feat is probably the highest armour in the game, or pretty damn close. It sits at ARM 29 with those buffs. Really, just 'feth it, I'm going to attack something else' territory. Even for a Bronzeback I reckon

Lets see. Bronzeback with Enrage and Abuse. Pow21 on the fists, pow20 on tusks.

Dice minus 8. Leaves an average of 2 damage on the charge attack, and 1 on each other attack to account for dice spikes.

Tusk initial, second initial, chain-attack headbutt, 5 bought attacks, average of 10 damage. Yeah, the Centurion will almost certainly survive. But will still have taken some damage. Enough to potentially cripple a system. And a dice spike in the right place could see the shield taken out early which would increase the damage of following attacks.

So Strykers feat basically buys the Centurion a turn but nothing more.
.

Not even
BB with Enrage Fury and Xerxis feat, +22 Fist, Pow 21 Tusk
Pow 22+4d6 x2 with Boosted Damage (1 Fury used) (14 dmg) (max 34)
Pow 21+4d6 x2 with Boosted Damage (3 Fury used) (12 dmg) (max 32)
Buy 22+4d6 with Boosted Damage (5 Fury used) (7 dmg) (max 17

33 Damage Average, 83 Damage Max. Centurion has 30 Hitboxes

Or with Buying Attacks instead of Boosting Damage
Pow 22+4d6 with Boosted Damage 7 dmg (max 11)
Pow 21+3d6 x2 (5 dmg) (max 20)
Buy 6x22+3d6 (5 Fury used) (21 dmg) (max 66)

33 Damage Average, 97 Damage Max... Wow same average *shrugs*

I bet even Molik Karn, Tiberion and Xerxis himself could crack that armor

Spoil sports :p

Pfft, silly Swans. Thinking you can just avoid the wrath of the Skorne empire?

I was told beast09 is probably the best jack. I have seen deathjack and the avatar in play, I find it hard to believe its better. Also mulg or bronzebacks probably win out on sheer damage output.

Depends on what you mean by "Best".

They all do different things. Beast is better against infantry, the Avatar kills heavies, and Deathjack is a bit of an all-rounder.

Best is subjective. But watching Deathjack trample through a line, ending within 3", and come out healthier on the other side than he went in definitely makes him a contender in my mind.

In terms of damage? Hard to beat a Bronzeback.

I defiantly debating the bronze back and the death jack (I play cygnar, and the others are menoth, convergence, and legion). Thanks for all the suggestion.

I've always thought the Deathjack is the most damaging jack it the game.

With MAT 8 and filled with focus it's making 7 attacks at power 18 and 1 at 15. That's with any caster.

On pSkarre's feat turn it could be at +5 strength that's 197 damage minimum. 277 damage maximum.

I'd say the Deathjack is arguably the most powerful warjack in the game. It can self repair has the potential to gain even more focus, 360 vision access to the casters spells. It can be destroyed easily yes, but same goes for everything else really.

Fluff wise invincible too.

I'd like to know what the hardest jack/beast to kill would be.

I was think of Old Rowdy who with Stryker can make 5 or more P+S 18 attacks at Mat 8, on defensive terms it has ARM 20 with OK defense.

The hardest to kill would be the Mammoth I think.

It's arm20 with a metric feth-ton of boxes, in a faction that has armor buffs.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The hardest to kill would be the Mammoth I think.

It's arm20 with a metric feth-ton of boxes, in a faction that has armor buffs.

Stormwall has only 1 arm less in a faction that has a solo sometimes used just to buff arm, as well as few spells that stop said colossal being charged.

Anyway OP said gargossals were excluded from this discussion.

 tommse wrote:
So "best" as in "hardest to kill"? Probably a Demolisher or Devastator from Khador. They have ARM 25 when they don´t attack, that´s a tough nut to crack.
If you are looking for raw damage Mulg from Trollbloods is a solid pick.

Had a demolisher get wrecked on my second turn at full armor by a charge from a single dire troll mauler. I've since lost faith in heavy armor.

Well a Mauler with Rage is one of the models that could definitely do it.

But then again, this game is skewed towards offense. So even though a Clamjack might be the most durable model base stats, its not going to come out unscathed from an enemy heavy's charge. Its Arm25 is more geared to making it almost immune to heavy infantry and not jacks.

There's not much chance of protecting things with high armour.

Better to avoid getting charged all together. Cryx. have always had an advantage of nice cheap mechanithralls and surgeon to screen stuff.

That's why I keep my Deathjack behind them.

Then the opponent has to do something to them or get charged by hard hitting infantry + debuffs.