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Ork Boyz Mob:


Grots:


Ork Tankbustas Mob:


Ork Lootas Mob:


Special Rules:

While I don't think it will happen, it's fun to think about, or even run as house rules.


How about rather than having the cheap unequipped boy to eat incoming wounds, allow a number of grots into the unit. By having some gretchen actually in the unit, they can play their roll as a "screen" effectively in a manner that would actually work.

As another option, how about fitting mek boys into the unit too. They are currently stuck as an "upgrade" to burnas and lootas despite offering few benefits to those units. Have them come standard with a shoota and be able to upgrade to the special weapons (also, this reminds me, burnas need to be a weapon option, and if GW doesn't put them in we need to all pretend that they did!). Perhaps keep them to a flat 1-3 can be taken per squad as they are now in the loota\buna entry.

I feel 2ppm for a scar boy is fair, and being able to fit them into regular boy squads would be amazing, and duo nobs would be dramatically better then it is now should GW not give us a new challenge mechanic.


Talk of cheaper 'ard boys always makes me start doing mathhammer in my head, but then i remember Fire Warriors, Dire avengers, and Grey Hunters exist.

The 'eavy armour is actually ok under these rules. Not so much the 3ppm, which I would usually call too pricey, but behind able to hide it behind 6+ boyz to prevent AP4 from just killing it off

Fully agree on Grots instead of one CCW boyz. Could give all manner of possibilities - for instance, opt to award yourself 5+ cover or shrouded or something, with each successful save killing a Grot (I think that was an old rule), and that move through cover rule they used to have

Even Meks would be a neat upgrade, or Shamans/Weirdboyz. I like these combined mob ideas because it really fits how I see Ork society working. They'd just call out da boyz, and all the various clans would get together with whatever weapons and hanger ons they've got and go charge the enemy.

I'd like to see more of these multipurpose units, and less arbitrary divisions. For instance, a Mekboyz mob instead of Lootas, Burnas, and possibly Tankbustas as seperate units. Nobz/Manz rolled into the same thing too.

Then add some random tables... and honestly you'd have the most legitimately orky codex yet produced. Sadly though, I think we'd need a more Ork friendly writer at GW for that to happen. No reason why we couldn't suss out some sweet homerules for those of us lucky enough to play with such things!

 Toburk wrote:
While I don't think it will happen, it's fun to think about, or even run as house rules.


How about rather than having the cheap unequipped boy to eat incoming wounds, allow a number of grots into the unit. By having some gretchen actually in the unit, they can play their roll as a "screen" effectively in a manner that would actually work.

As another option, how about fitting mek boys into the unit too. They are currently stuck as an "upgrade" to burnas and lootas despite offering few benefits to those units. Have them come standard with a shoota and be able to upgrade to the special weapons (also, this reminds me, burnas need to be a weapon option, and if GW doesn't put them in we need to all pretend that they did!). Perhaps keep them to a flat 1-3 can be taken per squad as they are now in the loota\buna entry.

I feel 2ppm for a scar boy is fair, and being able to fit them into regular boy squads would be amazing, and duo nobs would be dramatically better then it is now should GW not give us a new challenge mechanic.


Talk of cheaper 'ard boys always makes me start doing mathhammer in my head, but then i remember Fire Warriors, Dire avengers, and Grey Hunters exist.

Grots in ork squads is an awesome idea! But there's one problem. Majority toughness. You're basically going to pay 3 pts for models that will be treated as t4. Besides, i think that grots should get a discount and cost 2 pts (probably without grotblastas that could be an upgrade). I mean for 4 pts you can get cultists or conscripts that are waaaaay better than grots. But maybe orkses deserve some better treatment with all the hits we've suffered with new edition. However, i won't adjust grot's stats and points now.

I'll try to playtest this idea with grots. Let's say, for every 10 ork boyz in a squad you can take up to 5 grots for 3 ppm:

Grot: t2 s2 ws2 bs3 w1 a1 i2 ld5 armor-
Equipment: Grot blasta
Special rules: It's grot's life.

It's grot's life - until there's at least one Ork model left in a squad, grots are ignored for the purpose of calculating casualties suffered from shooting for ld checks (just like gun models in artillery units but doesn't apply in mellee cause otherwise it'd be a bit over the top). As a rule orkses just don't care much for what happens to grots. There are sure some exceptions like a 2-d ed runtherd that shot a mek out of mek's own SAG for using grots instead of snotlings as ammo. But that's a rare exception in orkse's kultur

Note that all this rules are easy to apply without much effort and it's also profitable for gw cause now they can sell 'eavy boyz and grots models in numbers

 koooaei wrote:
It's grot's life - until there's at least one Ork model left in a squad, grots are ignored for the purpose of calculating casualties suffered from shooting for ld checks (just like gun models in artillery units but doesn't apply in mellee cause otherwise it'd be a bit over the top). Orkses just don't care much for what happens to grots.

Excellent retooling of an existing rule.

Having grots mixed in with boys for majority toughness 4 would also allow them to be blatantly priced as extra wounds for the boys. Given that cultists and gants now cost 4 points, how much would a "properly" priced independant grot be? Two points? One point if they didn't have the S3 pistol?

Ehh the Orks will be fearless anyway

If you look at grot squads with runtherds, i'd say 2 pts for what they have right now. Making the min squad effectively cost 30 pts down from 40. But if combined with boyz they should be 3 pts and not less. Cause of majority toughness rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Ehh the Orks will be fearless anyway

Not alwayz. I really think that grot's current rule 'Grot's life' can be easilly reforged to fit the spirit of ork societie's treatment to lil green goblins. Yep, like attitude to dust.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Toburk wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
It's grot's life - until there's at least one Ork model left in a squad, grots are ignored for the purpose of calculating casualties suffered from shooting for ld checks (just like gun models in artillery units but doesn't apply in mellee cause otherwise it'd be a bit over the top). Orkses just don't care much for what happens to grots.

Excellent retooling of an existing rule.

Having grots mixed in with boys for majority toughness 4 would also allow them to be blatantly priced as extra wounds for the boys. Given that cultists and gants now cost 4 points, how much would a "properly" priced independant grot be? Two points? One point if they didn't have the S3 pistol?

I think their price as an independent unit is 2 pts per grot. Thus costing 30 pts for a min squad - 10 grots [20pts] + runtherd [10 pts] With current rules they're not nearly as useful as they used to be for frontline moving cover and meetshield. If previously they granted 4+ cover, could easier get cover themselves and could remove casualties so that they would still be granting cover...besides, cover's so easilly avoided now and there are not many things that care bout your bauble wraps that they just can't do all that stuff they were here for in the first place.

Don't forget, majority toughness can be a double edged sword... take too many grots and you risk T2 Orks

 Dakkamite wrote:
Don't forget, majority toughness can be a double edged sword... take too many grots and you risk T2 Orks

Yep, especially with outflanking and infiltrating shooters. But i still see it more profitable than dangerous. Besides, it's funny and fluffy!

T4 grots is fluffy?

I mean, sure, I can see the appeal gamewise, but fluffy?

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
T4 grots is fluffy?

I mean, sure, I can see the appeal gamewise, but fluffy?

Not t4. Grots in the frontline eating up bullets is fluffy.

Maybe just divide hits between Gretchin and Orks in the same unit? 1-3 hits a Grot, 4-6 hits an Ork?

Then maybe make Grots something you take per Ork. "For each Boy in the mob, you may take a Grot for 2 points"

Also, possibly a rule to cover Grots running away from the unit. Perhaps if they ever outnumber Orks the surplus will leg it

Sometimes I feel like the people that make the rules can't touch what players can do with the rules. Most of this thinking really could do a lot to make playing with and fighting Orkz feel like your are fighting a horde.

I mean even model sales could do well. You'd be buying kits with just bits to help outfit your boyz models.

The codex before the current ork codex was like this! You could swap out some of your boyz weapons shootas for sluggas. It was only confusing for non ork players, but even now with all orks having to use the same weapon non ork players don't know what they're looking at w/out explanation. I'd like a return to mass mobs of stuff: mixed weapons, mobbing up fleeing units...just wave after wave of green tide.

In a different direction, I'd love the orks to have learned a tactic from the space marines w/ their th/ss and be able to give some orks in a standad unit armor and a shield to catch bullets. Give em a 3+ save. If they're closest to shooter you get the 3+ save. We they die its gone.

Another problem with grots in an ork squad is that grots don't have WAAAAAAAGH so can't get fleet thus the whole unit can't benefit from it. So, i'm thinking of covering this thing either.

Maybe, grots in boy'z squads can also get fleet but every time the mob uses fleet, all grots must pass a dangerous terrain test representing them being crushed by the boyz themselves.

Just make it an add-on to Ard boyz. They can buy a shield that allows them to re-roll failed saves on their 4+, just like the FW marine combat shield thing.

Not that a 4+ save is worth anything in this game, especially to an army that will likely have a load of Shrouded floating about, but it'd still be cool, and worthwhile if it was dirt cheap (2ppm perhaps).

I also want to see loads of essentially WAAAGH banner type things. Orks really seem like they'd be into that, and they could confer all sorts of bonuses just like the Chaos Icons. Between Klans (Chapter Tactics/Mark of X type), Banners, and mixed unit composition, by god Orks would be a blast to play

Love that grots gettin squashed rule koooaei!

Dakkamite, I like your shield idea. Sorta like the shield boyz in Space Marine.

We really need to sort out the AP4 spam before that can happen, though.

Well, i think Dakkamite is right that boyz with just a choppa won't be good in this situation just cause of a t4 boy costing 4 pts while t2 grot costing 3. So, i'll make the choppa a default weapon on a 5 pts boy with possibility to exchange it for a shoota for +1 pts or just add a shoota for +2 pts.

Shield boyz?.. U mean like boyz with huge shields? Yep, it's possible to add something like:

an Ork may replace his weapons with a 'eavy Shield for 4 pts

'eavy shield: Str User, Two-Handed, Unwieldy, *Very 'eavy, **Scrapped ceramite

*Very 'eavy - the model equipped with this weapon has -1 attack to a minimum of 1. Furthermore, it gains Bulky usr.
**Scrapped ceramite - the model equipped with this weapon gains 3+ armor save.

So, you'll pay 9 pts for a t4 3+ body...I don't think that it's too low considering the penalties applied. Made it footslogging-oriented with Bulky on purpose. Besides, 3+ is not that awesome anymore. Don't know if it'd be more preferable than grot bodies for 3 pts but if you want this 'shield boyz' - why not.

Any Ork boy may be upgraded to an 'ard boy for +2 points per model, gaining a 4+ armour save. An 'ard boy may exchange his slugga and choppa for a Big Shield for free.

Big Shield; A huge slab of scrap iron strapped around the arm of an Ork, 'ard boyz carrying these shields often make up the front line of a warband, providing cover for the rest of the boyz. In close combat, the shield makes for a brutal, if cumbersome, melee weapon too

The Big Shield allows its wearer to re-roll failed armour saves. In addition, it works as a close combat weapon with the following profile;

Strength; +1, AP; -, Melee, Unwieldly, Two Handed

That one goes off of the assumption that models have a slugga and choppa as base... still not all that keen on choppa only boyz myself. For your own purposes koooaei, all you'd have to do is make it swap the CCW for a shield for 1 point.

I like where this thread is going, what I'd hope to do here is combine your ideas with some of my own and get a whole new entry for Ork boyz, that includes klans, banners, transports, and these equipment loadouts. Feel free to help, ignore, or steal as you like!

+2 pts for 4+ armor feels a bit too low for my 5 pts sluggaboyz. when 3 is quite right making Sluggaboyz cost 8 and shootaboyz 9. I think it's appropriate price. Not great but not bad. Furthermore, i hope we're getting 6+ fnp armywide and that's why i don't want to add too much. Besides, it's homebrew rules - they must be a bit underpowered.

4+ rerollable is actually better than 3+ unless it's ignored by ap4. Don't know how's that gona ballance out but why not allow 2 options if we're going that far? You can take either Ceramite Scrapped Shield with 3+ or 'eavy Shield with 4+ rerollable?

So, how much will this model cost? 7 pts for 4+ rerollable seems too low for me. They're gona be too good vs crons for example.

I tried to make them good vs something, given how often they will be AV nothing in all honesty.

I sort of go for the idea of a 50% price hike is not equal in value to a 50% defense boost, especially one that will be largely negated.

And what do you think about the ability to take 3+ shields? So that you can mix 4+ rerollable and 3+. Just imagine how awesome will the mob look if there are regular boyz, 'ard boyz, boyz with ceramite shields, boyz with 'eavy shields, a couple of nobz with different equipment, grots running in front for the 1-st wave. That'd look magnificent. And don't forget that you can mix weapons there! Not super-useful but still when you're out of points, some of the boyz may be equipped with sluggas+choppas, some with shootas. Or if you have some points to spare, some boyz may take both shootas and sluggas+choppas. That'd look chaotic! Just like it should in the case of orks.

I dunno what I think about it tbh, it seems oddly specific. I'd be more inclined to make it a klan ability or upgrade - "one unit of Deathskulls/Bad Moonz can take ceramite slab shields for X points"

And what if we also allow this grot shields for other ork units? It'd be truly awesome. 10 lootas with 5 grots in front of them or tankbustas in a wagon with grots accompanieng them! Probably grots could get an upgrade to be ammo runtz so here it goes! Upgrade for grots.


Grot [standard grot statline]

Gear: grot blasta

Options:
Extra Munition for 2 pts.

Extra munition: Once per game the model equipped with this gear may forego it's shooting attack and allow any model in the squad to re-roll a single to-hit roll.


So, i think that's gona be an awesome thing in a squad of lootas or tankbustas. What do you think about it?

Difficult to price because it is worth a very different amount of points to different units. Tankbustas gain more benefit than lootas do, who in turn get more benefit than shootaboyz do, and so on.

So, that's what i'm planning for a test game right now:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Difficult to price because it is worth a very different amount of points to different units. Tankbustas gain more benefit than lootas do, who in turn get more benefit than shootaboyz do, and so on.

just like power weapons. Sergeants get less benefits than captains but the gear costs the same. I think that in both cases - be it tankbustas or lootas, 5 pts for a grot with one-use reroll is great! Can't ask for more. And it's obvious that shootaboyz won't use ammo runts. Their shots are just not as valuable. Warbosses and nobz don't use ammo runts either even though they can currently take them as equipment. The only ones who're using it currently are grot artillery units, big meks with SAG and Flash Gitz with Kaptin Badrukk.

Making tankbustas benefit a bit more from this ammo runts is a good thing. Right now, tank bustas are considered a bad choice compared to lootas.

Double post

What came to mind for Grots was a Slaver/Runtherd as a character option, allowing you to take up to X Gretchin.

Deathskulls and Snakebites, due to their affinity with such things, would get more Slavers or more Grots per slaver.

Koooaei what did you do for Skarboyz? Just +1S? How many ppm? Hadn't considered these as something to put in and I reckon it could be worth it

Edit; also squigs should be a thing.

 Dakkamite wrote:
What came to mind for Grots was a Slaver/Runtherd as a character option, allowing you to take up to X Gretchin.

Deathskulls and Snakebites, due to their affinity with such things, would get more Slavers or more Grots per slaver.

Koooaei what did you do for Skarboyz? Just +1S? How many ppm? Hadn't considered these as something to put in and I reckon it could be worth it

Edit; also squigs should be a thing.

I don't know about grots yet. Adding a bit at a time, don't want to test lots of new stuff simultaniously not to loose ballance. I aim for "better but not good enough" result. Iirc there was a runtherd character back in 2 ed.

Scarboyz are just regular boyz with str 4. I think i've written it in my 1-st post. An ork boy pays 2 ppm for an upgrade thus making a slugga+choppa scarboy cost 7 pts. As you can see from my testing list a few posts earlier, i'm testing them in a squad of truckboyz. I think they're gona be really good in wagonz - will test it next.

Yesterday i've started a game vs IG that had CCS, 2 x 50 platoons with autocannons and comissars (regular ones), vendetta and ratlings. We hadn't finished cause had to leave but we'll continue today or tomorrow. Right now i can tell that grot shield is a good thing. Not over the top but helps footslogas quite a bit. Will see about 'eavy armor and scarboys. He's exploded a truck so i'll have to make some saves with trukkboyz and i think that 'eavy armor on a few boyz can be very effective cause statistically, if i have 12 models in a truck, 3-4 will die in explosion and they will have to pass pinning test on a lower than 10 ld. And if you allocate wounds on `eavy armored guyz, only 2 will die, and you'll have ld10 for pinning test. With bosspole reroll it's an almost guaranteed sucksess. Besides, extra surviving bodies is alwayz good. While you're generally protected with cover, there are some cases when 4+ armor is needed: exploding transports and mellee.

All in all, i really like the results right now and think it's a way to go. They feel good but not gamebraking at all. Just like intended.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Next thing i'll test will be lootas with runt grots and wagonboyz with 5 scarboyz equipped both with shootas and sluggas+choppas, and some 'eavy armored boyz to soak wounds.

Will need to test tankbustas with runt grots either but i'm not sure if they'll all fit in a test game at a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated the first post.

Give skarboys extra attacks and LD instead, just like the veterans of other races.

It also matches how Skarboys were portrayed in Space Marine.

Maybe a 6+ fnp?