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I didnt thin the paint at all, with water or otherwise. Im afraid of adding too much water and loosing opacity or laying it too thick and loosing detail control.

This is that common flaw you see on minis in pictures with most inexperienced painters like myself. Metallics are esp bumpy and gritty. So how do I get brushed on paint to lay down, smooth out, and dry smooth on smooth surfaces?

My airbrushing on larger areas seems to be a nice matte smooth finish.

I do have Vallejo thinner, Matte, satin and gloss finish and Future.

I really appreciate your help in advance. I realize that this question very beginner--so thanks. MP

Give your paints a good shake before use; make sure you're getting the pigments mixed in. Also, use your thinner liberally. Its OK if you have to paint multiple coats. I typically have to do at least 2 coats to layer up to the effect I'm looking for when using Vallejo paints.

Your metallics may need to be thinned with alcohol if they are alcohol based. Again, make sure you give them a good shake but instead of the Vallejo thinner (if the metallics are alcohol based) use isopropyl alcohol or Tamiya X-20 thinner.

AngularDeath wrote:
Give your paints a good shake before use; make sure you're getting the pigments mixed in. Also, use your thinner liberally. Its OK if you have to paint multiple coats. I typically have to do at least 2 coats to layer up to the effect I'm looking for when using Vallejo paints.

Your metallics may need to be thinned with alcohol if they are alcohol based. Again, make sure you give them a good shake but instead of the Vallejo thinner (if the metallics are alcohol based) use isopropyl alcohol or Tamiya X-20 thinner.

Thanks--when you say alcohol based metallics, what brand do you mean? I dont think Vallejos are, just from smelling them. So should I thin the Vallejo metallics with alcohol to help smooth 'em.? Its been my understanding, from airbrushing instructionals, that alcohol and Vallejo paints dont mix and clump them up.

Vallejo has a small alcohol based range called Liquid Gold, numbered 70.790-70.797. They cannot be thinned with water.

Unless using one of these, do not thin with alcohol, it will clump.

I think you answered your own question in your first sentence: You don't thin your paints. Add some water to it and do several layers if needed.

Waethion wrote:
Vallejo has a small alcohol based range called Liquid Gold, numbered 70.790-70.797. They cannot be thinned with water.

Unless using one of these, do not thin with alcohol, it will clump.

I think you answered your own question in your first sentence: You don't thin your paints. Add some water to it and do several layers if needed.

Sounds about right--thanks. Does anyone mix in anything else to improve smoothness?

Also, do experienced painters stay away from the water based metallics like Vallejo's for this reason?

Thinning your paints and using multiple coats is really the best way to do it. Don't worry about thinning them down to much worse case scenario is you have to add a drop of paint back into the mix to bring the consistency up. It's more of a trial and error when it comes to getting the thickness right. Remember it's easier to add another thin layer of paint than it is to strip an entire model and start over.

P.s. Pics always help when giving suggestions or advice. That and we all I think enjoy seeing others work. Good luck!

mjp808 wrote:
Also, do experienced painters stay away from the water based metallics like Vallejo's for this reason?

I think most people use water based acrylic metallics, and you can get great results with them.

Liquid Gold contains actual metal, and is a bit more shiny. However, it is also more work: the metal will rust if it's mixed with water, so you have to buy and use alcohol for thinning and cleaning. Regular acrylic paint contains water, so you can't mix them (while they are wet). You'll also need to get a synthetic brush (which for most of us translates into a dedicated brush) because the alcohol will destroy your natural brushes.

Is it worth it? If you're doing large metal areas, or want to go the extra mile, it can be. For your everyday bolter and sword blade, I'd stick to water based paint.

mjp808 wrote:
I didnt thin the paint at all, with water or otherwise. Im afraid of adding too much water and loosing opacity or laying it too thick and loosing detail control.

First and foremost, there is no such thing as "too thinned"
Then, thinned paint dries more matte than unthinned one, and you have better coverage, more control and more detail preservation with thinned paint. Just don't overload your brush. And you leave less brush stroke marks.

Just to help, but very, very roughly since paint consistency is almost a pot to pot issue:
Helpful water : colour ratios are
Basecoat 1:2
Layering 1:1 to 3:2 (the infamous milk consistency)
Glaze-layering 3:1 (watercolour consistency)

This is that common flaw you see on minis in pictures with most inexperienced painters like myself. Metallics are esp bumpy and gritty. So how do I get brushed on paint to lay down, smooth out, and dry smooth on smooth surfaces?

As it had been said, this is probably just the fact that paint sedimented. A simple agitator (or a ball-bearings ball) in the pot helps a lot.

"Properly" thinned paint is your biggest issue and should solve 95% of the problem right there.

You are using an airbrush for your larger surfaces and yes paint shot through it is going to be smooth and pretty. I would recommend thinning your paints the same way for brushwork. Its a good place to start and should give you better results.

I'll mention as an aside brush technique and pressure. Believe it or not the way you apply the paint with your brush can help or hurt with leaving brush strokes, It should be light and usually in the same direction.

Yeah I think its just drying too fast and "coagulating" as I paint.

Thanks everybody. Tons of good info!

Kinda too late but, heres a pic--ignore the sloppy painting--you can see the problem on the black shoulders and ion the red gun side. barrel too.

Try using a drying retarder to help with it drying in the airbrush and paint palette. Liquitex makes a Slow - Dri Fluid retarder and Matte Medium that has retarder in it to help with blending. Drop or 2 of this will help and wroks really well in Airbrushes to stop any clogging.

mjp808 wrote:
Yeah I think its just drying too fast and "coagulating" as I paint.

Thanks everybody. Tons of good info!

Kinda too late but, heres a pic--ignore the sloppy painting--you can see the problem on the black shoulders and ion the red gun side. barrel too.

Metallic paint tends to dry faster than non-metallic paint.

Sammoth mentioned Liquitex Slow-Dri and it is definitely worth a try. It is an additive that slows drying time and gives your acrylic paint a longer open time. Keep in mind that it does add a satin sheen to your paints, but that can fixed with varnish after you are complete.

The other thing worth mention is making and using a wet palette. This will especially be handy if you are doing a large amount of brush painting because it slows drying times to an absolute crawl without using additives.

That picture is clearly evidence of lack of thinning imo. Thinning is the solution. You could do the wet palette if you're doing assembly line painting or working on a large batch of figures, otherwise I find it unnecessary when painting. Achieve the "milky" consistency when thinning and you will avoid most of your problems. If your paint is milky, you can do just about anything with it.

Vallejo also makes a retarder medium if you're concerned about paint drying too fast.