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I'm starting a new IG army, and I'm wondering how to run command squads. I thought I'd put down my opinions, and stand judgement.

As regards CCSs, I think that the medi-pack is only worth it on the Warlord. Vox-sets are also good, as re-rolls are always useful. Otherwise, I wouldn't give the many upgrades.

I'm a fan of the 'mech horde' (mixing fast-moving mech vets and slow-and-steady platoon blobs, possibly in Chimeras too) so I'd probably put PCCs in Chimeras. For them though, I don't think I'd field any upgrades, except maybe a bolt pistol for thematic reasons (distinguish sergeants and lieutenants). Vox might be worth it, but medi-packs aren't cost effective and platoon standards are rubbish - if you've got a command squad in cc, you're doing it wrong!

This is purely my opinion, and I'd appreciate if people could give input and their own opinions.

Many thanks

CC

My favourite setups for a CCS are:

CCS, Regimental Standard, optional Vox if you're using blobs squads. Maybe a Lascannon, Autocannon or Mortar so you can reach out and hurt something.

CCS, 4x plasma, Astropath. Lots of mid-range AP2 here, so it's a nice deterrent. Pretty expensive, though.

For a PCS, I find 4 flamers to be very good as a counter-attack to anything that breaks the lines.

I run:

1) Barebones, maybe a Vox Caster/OoTF (Not so much now we have Tank Commanders)

2) Mechanised, with 3-4 specials, +/- Vox, Astropath (unless you get a specifically useful power, Psychic Shriek is hilariously good at 25), and I'm now considering Nork to turn the unit into a better gap-filler and increase its survivability.

And don't doubt the humble CCS in CC. You'd be surprised at some of the stunts they can pull in a last ditch charge.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

And don't doubt the humble CCS in CC. You'd be surprised at some of the stunts they can pull in a last ditch charge.

I wouldn't be, actually. I still have painful memories of losing Belial and most of a Deathwing Knight squad to an Eviscerator Priest and a Power Fist Company Commander. And I thought Slay The Warlord would be easy that game...

I'm still a big fan of the MoO + lascannon setup. Especially with the MoO dropping to 20 points. I can also see the value of a flag and carapace in some lists.

Upgrades to look into are the regimental standard, all the advisors, vox, and obviously special/ heavy weapons.

Even the Master of Ordnance is a pretty good buy now. Everybody complains about his accuracy, but think about it. Its a basilisk for 20 pts. If you run into a horde army, he's bound to hit something, and even the more elite armies if he gets a single hit or forces them to spread out, its points well spent. Every time I took one with the old codex he paid for himself. Sometimes it was a real big hit, sometimes it scatters and hits something else you weren't even aiming for, and sometimes all it does is force the opponent to thin himself out to avoid a bad hit, which just makes you more likely to hit something.

One thing I will warn you about. Do NOT make your CCS too good. What I mean is, the more you add, the more of a fire magnet it becomes. A CCS with a standard and a vox? Not a huge target. A CCS packing a full retinue of advisors, a lascannon, a vox, and a standard? May as well stick a shoot me sign on it. I would recommend picking a single job for the squad and sticking to it. Mine will probably only have a standard and a Fleet and Ordnance offer.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

And don't doubt the humble CCS in CC. You'd be surprised at some of the stunts they can pull in a last ditch charge.

I wouldn't be, actually. I still have painful memories of losing Belial and most of a Deathwing Knight squad to an Eviscerator Priest and a Power Fist Company Commander. And I thought Slay The Warlord would be easy that game...

My personal record is still seeing a barebones Company Commander bash an Eldar Autarch with that mental S6 AP3 supersword or something to death with the blunt end of a Las Pistol.

That's extremely anecdotal.. Sorry but there is nothing "surprising" about 5 guardsmen.

I think Carapace armor is a good buy for the 4 Vets. It's only 8 points, and you don't really need to pay 5 for the Company Commander to get it, as he's got a 5++ from the Refractor Field. I think Camo is more questionable, though. It's still only 8 points for the vets, but it's 10 points for the CC, and probably mandatory. Without it, I think the opponent can use "focus fire" to pick out guys without the Camo, as their cover save is different. As advisors don't even get the option, this could be trouble for them, too. I may be wrong on the rules, but that's my understanding of them.

For non-mechanized I can see camo gear and sniper rifles for 2 points, though unless you give it to the commander too the enemy can focus fire on him (which you can LoS). Carapace armor might also help if you're in a chimera that's likely to explode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Biophysical wrote:
I think Carapace armor is a good buy for the 4 Vets. It's only 8 points, and you don't really need to pay 5 for the Company Commander to get it, as he's got a 5++ from the Refractor Field. I think Camo is more questionable, though. It's still only 8 points for the vets, but it's 10 points for the CC, and probably mandatory. Without it, I think the opponent can use "focus fire" to pick out guys without the Camo, as their cover save is different. As advisors don't even get the option, this could be trouble for them, too. I may be wrong on the rules, but that's my understanding of them.

You're right. But you can use LoS and LOS!

4+ LOS! doesn't make me very comfortable.

I play small-scale games mostly (since my main tournament is, sadly, Schools League I've gotten used to cutting corners to make decent Guard at 600pts) so carapace armour has usually seemed a bit flashy. I might give it a go. As for the flag, I don't see the point - I'd keep my CCS back behind a gunline giving orders, or hide them someplace safe, so the 12" range on the buffs doesn't seem good. Unless I was fielding Straken.

I forgot the commander isn't an IC. I don't see the use of the flag, for those points you could probably deal an extra wound.

Mavnas wrote:
I forgot the commander isn't an IC. I don't see the use of the flag, for those points you could probably deal an extra wound.

The flag just looks cool

In regards to the MoTO he is just too inaccurate for my play style. I usually have trouble finding those last 10 points in my lists and even though he is cheap, he is FAR from a basilisk. The whole idea on principle irritates me, he has almost no chance of ever hitting his desired target the way the rule works which is so stupid. I need LoS and to roll a 4 or less on two dice? Screw that. I will say the idea, much like the standard, looks awesome but aside from making a neat looking unit I won't use him in competitive games.

The flag is great because 1: it's cheap, and does the same job as a Commissar without blowing anyone's head off, 2: it works well when you want to get more mileage out of a Command Squad but still hang back in a support role, and 3: that time when 30+ guys run screaming off the board, you're going to wish you'd spent 15 points on the Magic Flag.

The PCS flag is useless, with its +1 to combat ability, but the Regimental flag is essential for a support CCS.

Do not discount the MoO.

His inaccuracy only means you have to select his targets carefully. 20pts for high s ap 3 barrage large blast that can ignore cover or split fire with the rest of the squad at will and be TL with a primaris psyker is nothing to sneeze at.

I tend to use my CCS as more of a static center of line unit, adding in either an Autocannon or Lascannon team in the squad. I then typically bubble the squad with the heavy weapon squads from my platoon and an Aegis Defense Line so my commander can rock out on what ever version of gun emplacement I give him. It is usually deployed with the CCS and its heavy weapon team center of my defense line with a squad of 3 heavy weapons on the left, and a squad of 3 heavy weapons on the right.

Haven't run a CCS in a while but with this new codex I feel compelled to try them out again. That said I plan on running it with just the Astropath and Officer of the Fleet. Put them centrally located to my forces to give out the orders but give them a chimera for mobility if needed.

If you've got a CCS on a gunline, then apart from a MoO I'd give them nothing, not even a vox. There's no use, as HWSs don't get voxs, so there'd be no point, and there's no way it can give support, because I'd be keeping my command squad back anyway, so the banner would have no effect.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:
If you've got a CCS on a gunline, then apart from a MoO I'd give them nothing, not even a vox. There's no use, as HWSs don't get voxs, so there'd be no point, and there's no way it can give support, because I'd be keeping my command squad back anyway, so the banner would have no effect.

with the new orders, theya re now worth it for the normal grunts; I'd say a vox jsut to give a re-roll would be a worthy investment.

 Las wrote:
Do not discount the MoO.

His inaccuracy only means you have to select his targets carefully. 20pts for high s ap 3 barrage large blast that can ignore cover or split fire with the rest of the squad at will and be TL with a primaris psyker is nothing to sneeze at.

Well I should specify my justification is more personal play style. I know he can be effective, I just don't like aiming in the middle of "things" and hoping I hit the target I prefer instead of some chumps. I would rather spend his points where I have more control. Again, play styles.

I don't think the vox is worth it as there'd be no other vox-equipped units within range.

 Kirasu wrote:
That's extremely anecdotal.. Sorry but there is nothing "surprising" about 5 guardsmen.

No Fun Allowed. Mathhammer does not compute. Beepboop. Release steam.

5 S3 attacks at WS4, with 3 wounds, LD9 and a 5+ invuln to keep the Commander sticking around can prove a thorn in the side at the least expected moment for sure, and that's if you don't add a power weapon. I've lost count of the number of times a charge from my CCS has tipped the tide when my Guardsmen lose pace, or have the line broken.

No, its not going to solo a Terminator squad or take down that MC (though you can delay it for a turn), but it can certainly be an interesting asset in CC on some occasions.

Why not hide the commander out of line of sight or behind a larger vehicle (and out of line of sight) and arm them with a mortar and a MoO? Its a bit of a waste of Veterans but it gives some extra survival and also a little more offensive power than nothing within 48" for 5 pts

Also consider that with a gun line they can give Preferred enemy to any unit within six inches with the Aquila. It makes them expensive, but stick them in a Chimera for protection and you have a huge foot print to move units around in range.

Only one model from a unit needs to be within range. Also works for tanks squadrons.

Hollismason wrote:
Also consider that with a gun line they can give Preferred enemy to any unit within six inches with the Aquila. It makes them expensive, but stick them in a Chimera for protection and you have a huge foot print to move units around in range.

Only one model from a unit needs to be within range. Also works for tanks squadrons.

I fully expect GW to make it so it can't be used from inside a vehicle whenever the eventual FAQ hits.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Also consider that with a gun line they can give Preferred enemy to any unit within six inches with the Aquila. It makes them expensive, but stick them in a Chimera for protection and you have a huge foot print to move units around in range.

Only one model from a unit needs to be within range. Also works for tanks squadrons.

I fully expect GW to make it so it can't be used from inside a vehicle whenever the eventual FAQ hits.

F...A...Q?

This man is speaking gibberish!

 Dannyevilguy wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Also consider that with a gun line they can give Preferred enemy to any unit within six inches with the Aquila. It makes them expensive, but stick them in a Chimera for protection and you have a huge foot print to move units around in range.

Only one model from a unit needs to be within range. Also works for tanks squadrons.

I fully expect GW to make it so it can't be used from inside a vehicle whenever the eventual FAQ hits.

F...A...Q?

This man is speaking gibberish!

Never underestimate GW to break your good combos when you least expect it.

Does the Officer of the Fleet test on the Commander's Ld9, or on his native Ld? On a related note, does a priest test for War Hymns on his Ld7, or the highest leadership of the unit (8 with sergeant, 9 with commissar/psyker)?

Not really it's been established before that measure to model includes transports, the question came up for something else in another codex as well. I can't remember which, maybe Orks?Yeah, I think maybe it was Orks or new Chaos. specifically remember that those abilities work when in transports unless otherwise stated.


Regardless, you can do it and it's pretty fething awesome.

Yes, All of my Heavy Weapon teams with Autocannons have Preferred Enemy, now I will order one to ignore cover.

Especially brutal with large blobs. What's that Oh nothing much my Squadron of Leman Russ Exterminators reroll 1s on wounds now. It's kind of ridiculous and the best thing a Gunline of Imperial Guard can get it's even more efficient than Prescience Psykers.