Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:to tell you the truth,

1.)there isn't much Psychic defense other then Hoods, Shadow, and Runes.



2.)Fortunantly, Psychic powers don't have massive effects on the game. they are mostly either shooting weapons or some augmentive abilities.

Psychic powers arn't game breaking so there really doesn't need to be anti-psychic things everywhere. it's not Warhammer where magic is very important. you can ignore Psykers and do just fine.

1.) So... basically... 7 of the 14 races in the game... (though, DE have a psychic defense I thought? and Khorne daemons sort of have a psychic defense.)

2.) Fortunately I agree. The scary psychic powers that grey knights have only boost their combat skills. The fortitude is still annoying regardless however. Why buy extra armor when you get it free!!! (5 points more than a normal rhino)

DE can have one unit that is immune to powers, and that is only if a special character is attached. They also have arcane wargear that can kill pychers. But tradition or common defense? None.

Well i didn't count DE or Daemons in my count of the half of the armies in the game, so i am still good :-)

Grey Templar wrote:Fortunantly, Psychic powers don't have massive effects on the game. they are mostly either shooting weapons or some augmentive abilities.

Psychic powers arn't game breaking so there really doesn't need to be anti-psychic things everywhere. it's not Warhammer where magic is very important. you can ignore Psykers and do just fine.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:2.)Fortunantly, Psychic powers don't have massive effects on the game. they are mostly either shooting weapons or some augmentive abilities.

Psychic powers arn't game breaking so there really doesn't need to be anti-psychic things everywhere. it's not Warhammer where magic is very important. you can ignore Psykers and do just fine.

Ignore GK psykers at your own risk. Between their insta-kill template based on Initiative that is going to insta-nuke all Orks and many Tyranids beasts (And it's worded poorly so I'm not sure Inv saves are allowed), Purifiers horde-munching power and a full squad of force weapons striking at Ini 10 (Goodbye, Mephiston! Oh wait, he was Ini 1 against them already.)

The GK librarian can easily be kitted out to turn Yigurius into a mewling punk for less than Tigurius' price. In fact, may of their powers seem like Ultramarine powers, only MORE.

Concerning the DreadKnight....

Could someone please point me to the ACTUAL RULE in the rulebook WHERE IT IS WRITTEN that a model cannot be both monstrous AND Jump Infantry? Either that or the ACTUAL RULE or WHERE IT IS WRITTEN that once you gain the status of one type of model you lose the other status.

You see....I cannot seem to find it.

Oh, thats right...the rulebook DOESNT say anything of the sort.

People need to stop cheating with this codex. It's good enough w/o trying to pull a fast one.

40k is a permissive game. You don't have me prove that you can't. You just have to prove that you can.

You wouldn't make this argument with bikes. Can they run? I mean they are infantry AND bikes at the same time.

Are tyranids "pulling a fast one" when they say there Hive Tyrant isn't an independent character, even though it clearly joined a unit (tyrant guard). GW has a rule made for Independent character monstrous creatures being able to be singled out iun shooting... but not a model in the game is an IC MC that can join units.

And in the same example, if the hive guard get cover, then so does the tyrant. because 50% of the unit is in cover.

Does stealth apply to the entire unit? even if an IC doesn't have it? Well the rulebook says it modifies the units coversaves, but that would be just plain wrong right?

How about daemons with blessing. Are they cheating when they say that even though a grey knight player doesn't take a psychic test that they get a 2++ save in close combat?

Orks players claiming a 4+ coversave with KFF must be cheating as well. Obscured lets you get a 4+ unless otherwise specified. it is specified as a 5+ save (as vehicles have to be obscured to claim a save). They must be cheating.

No one needs to cheat with the codex. It is good, better if you don't take the dreadknight. but don't give me this bull about we need to prove that you can't. The models you use are just plastic toys, and can't do anything until you are told you can.

Edited in: You are also implying something that can't happen. What, do we pick and chose what to follow? I like the way jump infantry moves, so lets do that. Oh! I like the relentless as well, but I follow the rules for shooting with infantry... hmm... well I chose the better of them. that makes sense right? I chose the best of the 2. You can't have 2 sets of rules and follow both of them.

In all cases thus far, it has replaced. It has said replaced. In this case, it does not say that. It does not say "moves like jump infantry", which replaces the normal movement. It does not just add on.

DreadKnights are already MC's.

Getting a personal Teleporter also makes them Jump Troops.

Pretty simple really, unless you're cheating.

Again, nowhere in the rulebook does it state that you cannot be both. Everyone here that says differently is ASSUMING you cannot.

Again, show me the rule.

Wow you are persistent and ignored my entire post... wow.

As soon as you find the rule where it says you CAN rather than picking and choosing the rules you like... i will. If the rule said it IS cavalry, you wouldn't argue that it can climb buildings would you?

Permissive means YOU NEED PERMISSION FOR A RULE TO EXIST!!! The fact that the rulebook doesn't include beasts in the climbing buildings section is evidence of that. Beasts can't climb buildings BECAUSE THERE IS NO RULE that says you can.

You're right, rules are permissive.

Normal DreadKnight rules state that it is a MC.

Giving it a personal teleporter also makes them Jump Troops.

I'm just looking for the reasoning anyone has that they cannot be both...b/c the Grey Knight codex seems to give them both. See...I'm not picking and choosing, I'm taking what the codex gives my DreadKnight...and that is both statuses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Permissive means YOU NEED PERMISSION FOR A RULE TO EXIST!!! The fact that the rulebook doesn't include beasts in the climbing buildings section is evidence of that. Beasts can't climb buildings BECAUSE THERE IS NO RULE that says you can.

It specifically states in the rulebook which models can climb buildings. If the rulebook specifically stated that only particular models could be jump infantry or MC's we wouldnt be having this discussion...it doesnt.


...but the Grey Knight codex gives both to the DreadKnight.

But you are still saying, it is relentless has move through cover and moves 12", 2D6 armor pen (even though jump infantry it says that the act like normal infantry.) You choose which part of the section to follow to gain move benefits?

Don't think I don't think it is cheesy, or even right. And I am very confident that the FAQ amend it. Not say that a unit can be both. there are to many ways that rules can contradict themselves that way.

I dont understand how these two statuses contradict each other in any way...

But you are still saying, it is relentless has move through cover and moves 12", 2D6 armor pen (even though jump infantry it says that the act like normal infantry.) You choose which part of the section to follow to gain move benefits?

Pretty much...yea, except for the movement part. You've always been able to decide whether or not to use your jump pack for movement, no different here except that you've also got specific MC movment characteristics backing you up. For a 75pt jump pack I dont think that this is out of line or contradictory in the least.

You give wings to a hive tyrant or daemon prince, they stay MC but get to move as jump infantry. It's pretty obvious that is what was intended; especially when we've seen similar mistakes like this in Matt's previous works.

I mean, it's not like strapping a teleporter on the Dreadknight's back somehow magically makes it shrink to the size of a normal marine, thus, taking away it's MC strength and allowing it to fit in the hull of a storm raven...

omerakk wrote:You give wings to a hive tyrant or daemon prince, they stay MC but get to move as jump infantry. It's pretty obvious that is what was intended; especially when we've seen similar mistakes like this in Matt's previous works.

Nobody cares what YOU feel is obvious. We're looking for actual rules here.

DreadKnights are MC's.

For 75pts you make them Jump Infantry as well.

Same as if you buy them any other option, it doesnt change anything but MORE ABILITIES for that model.

I mean, it's not like strapping a teleporter on the Dreadknight's back somehow magically makes it shrink to the size of a normal marine, thus, taking away it's MC strength and allowing it to fight in the hull of a storm raven...

...and THAT is a pretty dumb arguement...with no basis whatsoever in the rules.

The jump Infantry thing says you become jump infantry, so ok, you're a jump infantry MC i guess, by RAW, with all the benefits and downsides therein. That said I don't thing that's what they intended, but *shrug* i don't care overmuch on that point.

Going off at a tangent a smidge here, but it is relevant to me

So, going by RAW

The Dreadnought close combat weapons it comes armed with make it a Walker also, because only a walker can use them? I think not I've had it argued that it does in games recently.

By RAW its not a walker. Its a MC. IF it really is a jump Infantry MC (and not a moves as, which I think was what was intended, and it will likely be Faq'd as as soon as sales on Stormravens and Dreadknights top out) it still isn't a walker, so RAW they have absolutely zero effect.

Or we could just take it as read that Matt Ward Proofread Matt Ward, and right now the rules are a bit, well, fethed up until FAQ time...


*edited for spelling*

Nobody cares what YOU feel is obvious. We're looking for actual rules here.

Geez aren't you just pleasant to talk to when someone disagrees with you.

Ok then mr rules lawyer, how do you like this for rules?

"Units with personal teleporters ARE jump infantry"

nowhere does it say "AND retain initial abilities" or "AND count as their previous unit type"

RAW, end of story.
What's that? There's no rule that says a non vehicle unit can't be 2 types? Well, there's no rule that says it can, either.
It's not up to everyone else in the world to disprove your theory, the burden is on you to disprove what the codex says.

We can also compare this to things like Wings for Deamon Princes and Hive Tyrants where it says they MOVE like Jump Infantry.

here it says they ARE jump infantry.


massive difference.

The reason the rules controdict each other is this.

infantry get 1D6 for armor pen. MC's get 2D6. You choose the 2D6 because you like it more.

Infantry may shoot 1 weapon, MC's may shoot 2. You choose the latter because it is more beneficial to you.

Jump infantry follow the same rules as infantry in almost all cases. Because of what has been said so far, it is safe to say that one may choose to measure cover using the rules for jump infantry yes?

If I had an infantry model that has an upgrade that says it is cavalry, may it climb stairs because it is infantry and cavalry?

I just think it's funny that 5th Edition powers come under harsh criticism based on overcosted 4th Edition edition powers.
It's rather like comparing videos to Dvds. We should be thinking, in terms of '5th Edition' armies, how does this power compare...?

Bruteboss wrote:Using "competitive" as a derogatory word is laugable kevin. You're basically saying "I don't play to win".

If you don't play with the intention of winning, but rather to "have fun", using your own set of criteria, then fine, more power to you. But don't come here and complain that units your opponent plays are unbeatable and therefore unfair.

They aren't, you simply aren't willing to do what it takes to actually win against them. Complaining here won't help you.

Edit: and nothing we say will change your mind if you're determined to play crappy lists that are "fluffy" or fit your own definition of fun. There are ways to beat anything in the game, with any army. You simply need to be willing actually open your mind and do them.

Playing to win is not the same as competitive. Also, you spelled "laughable" wrong. Anyway, yes I play to win. Who doesn't? I also play to have fun. I do not, however, play in competitive tournaments (like many people on here). Also, I didn't say anyone's units were unfair or anything of the sort. I especially wouldn't say so considering how out of date some of the codices are. I'm sorry you didn't get the gist of what I was saying but to come on here with that attitude towards me is a bit laughable, as you put it.

Ummm... Marines are 5th edition right? Grey knights pay 5 points for fortification on their rhinos.

Here's what I find funny....

You guys are arguing against DreadKnights being both MC's and Jump Infantry at the same time are almost all stating that it's going to be FAQ'd (something I dont think needs to be done actually) in favor of having both. You're arguing RAW for no reason. (and badly)

Also, what "Unit Type" would you say is under the "Interceptor" entry in the Codex? Would it be "Jump Infantry"? Wrong...they're infantry. Teleporters may change that unit type, but it doenst restrict them from moving as infantry if the player so wishes. In fact, you could totally play them as infantry if you liked...they just choose not to use their teleporters in game.

So in effect...they're both.

But...you guys are saying it makes perfect sense for the DreadKnight with Status MC to lose all of it's MC movement abilities if it purchases the 75pt Teleporter? Not only that, but now that it's got a Teleporter strapped to its back it can jump aboard a Stormraven and has less str against vehicles in HtH? And can all of a sudden take cover in ruins even though 50% of it isnt hidden from view? You're all OK with this? All the while saying that you're quoting RAW?

nowhere does it say "AND retain initial abilities" or "AND count as their previous unit type"

Hey, smart guy, it doesnt have to. Just b/c I buy a character a Meltabomb, doesnt mean that it has to say he can still use his Krak Grenade. The DreadKnight already comes with all the abilities of being a MC. Just like Interceptors are actually "Infantry". The teleporters may change them to "jump infantry" but doenst change the fact that they can still move around and fight exactly as their original status.

You see...they have both, they have the abilities of both and follow the restrictions of both (i.e. even though interceptors are "infantry" they're also "jump infantry" therefore cannot ride in a Rhino). The DreadKnight purchases that ability for 75pts.

...and since you guys are consistantly insisting that the sky is purple instead of blue and trying to make sense of it, I'll exit on this note. We all know what the FAQ is going to say for you people...you know...you guys whom GW has to keep "dumbing down" the rules for each edition?

Learn to play with some common sense...failing that, learn logic. That way you dont have to wait for the FAQ to come out.

Frankly the idea that the knight magically shrinks because he has a personal teleporter and can fit in a storm raven is just fething ridiculous.

If some clown tried to pull that on me I'd tell them to packup their army and feth off

Never once did I say that it would FAQ in favor of being both at the same time. I said that they would amend it for the dreadknight to just move.

They can move normally... because it say in jump infantry's movement section that it can move like normal infantry. Does not mean its both, just because it acts like both.

Like my hive tyrant example. It acts like an independent character, but that doesn't mean she IS one. Doesn't make her both an IC and not an IC.

They must follow the restrictions of both you say? Does that not mean that the restrictions of the 6" move for MC would stop it from moving more than 6"?

And you know what daedshane... you really need to learn manners. How old are you, 4? Calling everyone dumb isn't going to make your point any more valid.

You are right that we shouldn't need GW to spoon feed us everything, but you know what.. they do have to. Because there are some people who try as hard as they can to get an edge so that they can win and say that they are the best.

ie: Preferred enemy daemon. GW needs to spoon-feed us what that means, because CSM players refuse to accept that summoned daemons and daemon princes are daemons because they don't have the "daemon" rule. In reality, this does not define something as a daemon either, as the daemon rule only says that daemons benefit from 4 special rules. So technically, at the moment, the only things that Grey knights get preferred enemy against is the Avatar of Khaine, as it is the only model who is defined as a daemon.

A lot of this game is common sense, as the rules are very loose. Don't call people dumb because you are calling a monstrous creature infantry...

Also, what "Unit Type" would you say is under the "Interceptor" entry in the Codex? Would it be "Jump Infantry"? Wrong...they're infantry. Teleporters may change that unit type, but it doenst restrict them from moving as infantry if the player so wishes. In fact, you could totally play them as infantry if you liked...they just choose not to use their teleporters in game.

Yes, but the only reason they can still operate as "normal" infantry, is because it says they have the option to do that in the actual jump infantry rules. It doesn't say they count as both types, it just says they get the option of not using jump packs if they wish. That lack of information regarding MC's and other unit clarifications is why so many people are arguing the point

So in effect...they're both.

Again, this is just your OPINION, not fact. You seem to think that your opinion is better than everyone else, despite having no actual written rules to back you up. If you're only defense against someone's argument is "SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS I CAN'T", the only retort you will get is, "SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS I CAN"

Hey, smart guy, it doesnt have to. Just b/c I buy a character a Meltabomb, doesnt mean that it has to say he can still use his Krak Grenade. The DreadKnight already comes with all the abilities of being a MC. Just like Interceptors are actually "Infantry". The teleporters may change them to "jump infantry" but doenst change the fact that they can still move around and fight exactly as their original status.

Completely irrelevant. Meltabombs are just added wargear that you are allowed to choose from when declaring an attack; that's why their entry doesn't say they replace other grenades. Hell, you could even choose to use Frag grenades over the Krak if you wanted to for that same reason. Unlike melta bombs, the personal teleporter has additional rules that actually change the unit. And again, interceptors can choose how to move and attack because the jump infantry rule on page 52 says they can opt to not use the jumpacks for movement. Nowhere does it mention several unit types, MC's, etc.

...and since you guys are consistantly insisting that the sky is purple instead of blue and trying to make sense of it, I'll exit on this note. We all know what the FAQ is going to say for you people...you know...you guys whom GW has to keep "dumbing down" the rules for each edition?

Learn to play with some common sense...failing that, learn logic. That way you dont have to wait for the FAQ to come out.

Yes, common sense is SO the way to interpret the rules in this game. That has NEVER been an issue in the past 4 editions; and if you're going to argue logic, try using some yourself. In fact, try using some common courtesy while you're at it. I was actually on your side with all the nonsense of Dread's getting a cover save, using storm ravens etc and still am; I just completely disagree with how you choose to argue your opinion as fact, then attack everyone else for not citing a rule when you yourself, can't even find a rule to cite.

Feel free to take your "Holier than Thou" attitude with you upon your exit.

Deadshane1 wrote:Here's what I find funny....

You guys are arguing against DreadKnights being both MC's and Jump Infantry at the same time are almost all stating that it's going to be FAQ'd (something I dont think needs to be done actually) in favor of having both. You're arguing RAW for no reason. (and badly)

Also, what "Unit Type" would you say is under the "Interceptor" entry in the Codex? Would it be "Jump Infantry"? Wrong...they're infantry. Teleporters may change that unit type, but it doenst restrict them from moving as infantry if the player so wishes. In fact, you could totally play them as infantry if you liked...they just choose not to use their teleporters in game.

So in effect...they're both.

But...you guys are saying it makes perfect sense for the DreadKnight with Status MC to lose all of it's MC movement abilities if it purchases the 75pt Teleporter? Not only that, but now that it's got a Teleporter strapped to its back it can jump aboard a Stormraven and has less str against vehicles in HtH? And can all of a sudden take cover in ruins even though 50% of it isnt hidden from view? You're all OK with this? All the while saying that you're quoting RAW?

nowhere does it say "AND retain initial abilities" or "AND count as their previous unit type"

Hey, smart guy, it doesnt have to. Just b/c I buy a character a Meltabomb, doesnt mean that it has to say he can still use his Krak Grenade. The DreadKnight already comes with all the abilities of being a MC. Just like Interceptors are actually "Infantry". The teleporters may change them to "jump infantry" but doenst change the fact that they can still move around and fight exactly as their original status.

You see...they have both, they have the abilities of both and follow the restrictions of both (i.e. even though interceptors are "infantry" they're also "jump infantry" therefore cannot ride in a Rhino). The DreadKnight purchases that ability for 75pts.

...and since you guys are consistantly insisting that the sky is purple instead of blue and trying to make sense of it, I'll exit on this note. We all know what the FAQ is going to say for you people...you know...you guys whom GW has to keep "dumbing down" the rules for each edition?

Learn to play with some common sense...failing that, learn logic. That way you dont have to wait for the FAQ to come out.

Actually it does have to, and the melta bomb argument was nothing but a pointless distraction from the real issue. If you're going to rules lawyer it often comes down to legal precedence. The only legal precedence on a unit changing it's unit with a wargear purchase is when an IC purchases a jump pack or bike, seer council, and nob bikers. Nob bikers can not revert back to being standard infantry to run or go up stairs because their unit type is changed to bikes. A space marine IC that purchases a bike can't suddenly revert back to being infantry because he wants to run or go up a flight of stairs. A space marine IC with a jump pack can't revert to being standard infantry so that he can embark in a Rhino. Legal precedence in the matter is if a unit purchases gear that changes it's unit type unless otherwise stated it is 100% the new unit type, and can not revert back to it's old unit type unless otherwise stated by the codex


Well by that same logic a DK can't ride in a storm raven because it's both jump infantry and a MC. Boarding a MC/Jump about a raven would be as illegal as boarding a foot/jump interceptor squad on board a rhino. If a TO really wants to be a dick he could rule that the DK can't gain any benefit of being a MC or Jump infantry unless both unit types have that benefit, and takes full penalties if either unit type has that penalty. Personally I think that would be going too far, and GK players would just field psyfileman dreads instead

My FAQ prediction is as follows: FAQ is going to=RAI=Counts as jump infantry for movement just like a deamon prince. Until then I'll be dollars to doughnuts that INAT and other major TO rulings will=counts as jump infantry just like a deamon prince. Many TOs will probably embrace the RAI of moves as jump infantry because it would a fair and crystal clear end to the debate that is no longer in any way open to interpretation.

GK players should be taking rifflemen dreads instead anyway... I don't think the Dreadknight is worth the 200 points... Though i have seen a worse use of 200 points.

---before anyone tries to correct me and say, No! there 130 points I would like to point out I am applying the PT.

I just posted a poll to see what the general community thinks
please vote

wisdomseyes1 wrote:GK players should be taking rifflemen dreads instead anyway... I don't think the Dreadknight is worth the 200 points... Though i have seen a worse use of 200 points.

---before anyone tries to correct me and say, No! there 130 points I would like to point out I am applying the PT.

And they are better deal at 130 points. They have relentless and a big gun platform which makes them a real bargain at 130 points. The PT makes them too expensive, especially when a GM can make any unit (including regular 130 point DK) outflank.

2 cents:

I know alot of people in Dakka are competitive, rules lawyers.

But please let us put those aside. Some people say RAW is better than RAI, or vise versa. Answer is, none of them are absolutely correct or preferable. By the end of the day its a mix of both coupled with common sense.

Lets use this thing called "COMMON SENSE" for a while.

The Personal Telerporter wargears turns the bearer into jump infantry: Lets ponder that for a moment. Regarding Interceptors that makes sense, but Dread knights? I dont think so. Do you seriously think a thing as huge as a DK can ride the Stormraven? Do you seriously think it can easily obtain cover as easily as infantry? Why not treat it just the same as a Daemon prince with wings.

I know that the codex rules doesn't support any of these rules you have mentioned, but lets face it, GW has always been stupid regarding rules writing, but its up to us to use some common sense to cover their shortcomings.

I am a RAW person myself, but only if the rules make sense. Its better to be a person who clearly has common sense rather than the guy who needs every rule variation written out for him for EVERY INSTANCE AND SITUATION.

By the end of the day, the rules are between you and your opponent. If he allows you to board the SR with your GK, go to town.

TD;DR: Matt Ward you are an idiot =P

I still haven't seen any valid argument against dual-type non-vehicles. We are in a moving in a permissive rules-set, so specific beats less specific and forbiddance beats permission. Stating something "is jump infantry" does not tell you to replace the original type. As you do not need permission to not change the type, the permissive rules would simply add the second one.

Lets go to the much quoted infantry bikes.
- Bikes has permission to move up to 12". Infantry has permission to move up to 6". So bike-infantry has permission to move up to 12", as there is no rule preventing infantry from moving any further by different means(embarked on transports or summoning for example).

- Bikes are not slowed by difficult terrain and treat difficult terrain as dangerous. Infantry are slowed by difficult terrain. Nothing prevents Infantry from treating dangerous as difficult. Infantry moves 2d6. Bikes are forbidden to be slowed. So an Infantry-Bike would move as a regular bike would.

- Bikes fall back 3d6 rather than 2d6, so special rule beats less special rule by replacing it. Bike-infantry would fall back 3d6.

- Bike may not enter buildings. Infantry may climb buildings. Frobiddance beats permission, no bike-infantry on upper floors.

- Only infantry models may enter transports, bike-infantry is not only infantry, so it may not enter transports.

- Relentless and Turbo-Boost work the same on bikes as they do for infantry, so no problems here.

To conclude: As all bike rules are all either permissive or restrictive, so a bike-infantry model would behave exactly the same as a bike.

So back to the Jumping Dreadknight:
- MCs have "move through cover" and "relentless". Nothings prevents JI from gaining those USR.

- JI have permission to move as infantry, MC have permission to move as infantry. JI have permission to move up to 12" with dangerous terrain tests when landing. A JI-MC would have permission to use the jump-pack as well, as they are not disallowed using different moves than the normal one.

- JI may end their jump move on top of impassible terrain. No specific rule for MCs, specific beats non-specific.

- JI falls back 3d6, MCs have no special "fall back!"-rule. Specific beats non-specific.

- MCs have permission to fire two weapons. JI have permission to fire one weapon. JI-MCs have permission to fire two weapons.

- MCs may not go to ground, JI may. Forbiddance beats permission, so JI-MCs may not go tho ground.

- MCs may not claim cover as Infantry does, but must be 50% obscured, JI claims cover as infantry does. Forbiddance beats permission, so vehicle cover rules for JI-MC.

- MCs close combat attacks resolved as power weapons, JI attacks are not resolved in a special way. Specific beats non-specific.

- MCs roll an additional d6 for armor penetration. JI roll 1d6 for armor penetration. Nothing prevents JI from gaining an additional die for penetration, so 2d6+S for JI-MCs.

- Only jump infantry and infantry may be transported by a storm raven. As a JI-MC is not only jump infantry or infantry, it may not enter a storm raven.

- JI may arrive via deep strike rules, MCs have no special rule concerning this. Specific beats non-specific.

So, to our total surprise, it works exactly like a daemon prince moving as jump infantry, except for some special rules explicitly affecting models if they are jump infantry.

All of this is RAW, see BRB pages 51ff, especially the grey box on pg. 52.

I'm surprised no one mentions Psybolt ammo.
For minimal points shooting weapons gain 1 pt of ST. First ever increase in shooting ST in the game.