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Wow guys, this is great. Some really good ideas coming in. Beginners classes for adults is good and im convinced not to charge for tables (was never keen anyway).

I will defo need an employee who understands MTG as I really have no idea.

As for FW, I have to agree that it would be more hassle than its worth so won't go down that route.

If you're going to do CCG as a major part of your business you need people on the staff who know the systems and who can price and sell singles. That's where the money is, speculation.

You'll make a few pounds off of booster boxes and sets but what you want is to sell cards individually. Card speculation is where you can make out with real money.

If you're just going to have a shelf sets and some booster boxes on the counter that's fine, but don't expect to make too much cash on them. You can't sell them for all that much more than you paid for them. Every little bit helps though. If someone is dropping 50-500 bucks on Games Workshop they might spend another few dollars on MTG. When I'm already feeling stabbed in the back by product prices I tend to twist the knife.

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
If you're just going to have a shelf sets and some booster boxes on the counter that's fine, but don't expect to make too much cash on them. You can't sell them for all that much more than you paid for them.

Do not sell for less than MSRP for magic unless it is for a preorder or box/case of product at a time. Or to round down the cost of a draft entrance fee. This idea of selling for a bit over cost is madness. You should be able to get MTG through your main game distributor at your full distributor discount. Use it to make some actual money on your margins.

If a store owner is selling MTG at full MSRP and telling customers they are barely marking them up, they're lying to their customers. It sounds like a fake explanation to satisfying a complainer.

I've worked for small hobby shops and I would be glad to give some advice.

For the play area, you have to kinda draw a hard line between free and membership. If you charge for the area it has to be worth it! I'm talking full blown tables with immaculate terrain, custom pieces and organized. I don't recommend charging for the area.

I know it has been mentioned but if there is a card game community in your area I recommend trying to get in on it. Even more so if you have a webstore. Card gamers are a fixed income that you get to count on for every new set. Doing singles and trades are actually very profitable but you have to stay on top of your prices and I would push excess product online. Take in 60-50% store credit, 30-20% in cash and anything make a flat rate for any card under 5 bucks. A similar bracket could probly be applied to used miniatures as well but I don't recommend taking those in. Maybe take full armies in on consignment.

A big hurdle for game shops is if you don't have it, how soon can you get it. Try to have multiple retailers that you can order the same product from.

Discounts are hard to do... Once you start down that road it is hard to get off of it. The best discount system I've seen is kinda clever, it makes regulars feel good and doesn't actual eat that much margin. For every 10 dollar chunk you spend you get a 1 dollar credit/point. You can cash these out for purchases when ever you have saved up 10 or more credits. Credits can't earn you more credits. It's like having a ten percent discount but not really when you round down ( if they buy 18 dollars of stuff they only get 1 credit).


I just remembered a cool thing a place I went to in Colorado did, if you kept your receipt for the models you bought, painted them, and brought them in you got a discount for more models. It's cool things like that that gamers remember.

 McManiak wrote:
I would be 10% cheaper than RRP on webstore and this would allow people the same discount in store whilst generating a loyalty to the physical store.

Having different prices on your webstore and physical store is a bad idea. You'll just get people in store wanting to know why they can't just have it for the online price, since they could have just bought it that way instead of walking into your store.

Doesn't darmsphere do that? Though you can order online to collect at the internet rate

Alternatively for charging for tables, what about charging for them but giving the money back as a discount if they buy anything from the shop? £3 for a table, but you get £3 off when you buy a box that day.

DaKrumpa wrote:



I just remembered a cool thing a place I went to in Colorado did, if you kept your receipt for the models you bought, painted them, and brought them in you got a discount for more models. It's cool things like that that gamers remember.

THAT is a great idea. I would love it!

VanHallan wrote:

DaKrumpa wrote:



I just remembered a cool thing a place I went to in Colorado did, if you kept your receipt for the models you bought, painted them, and brought them in you got a discount for more models. It's cool things like that that gamers remember.

THAT is a great idea. I would love it!

That is a good idea actually.

Brought them in... to game with? Show the store? Display in the store cabinet?

 Azazelx wrote:
Brought them in... to game with? Show the store? Display in the store cabinet?

All the above, they had a display cabinet. But mostly it was people who brought them in for game night, either in their army or just along to get the discount.

VanHallan wrote:

DaKrumpa wrote:



I just remembered a cool thing a place I went to in Colorado did, if you kept your receipt for the models you bought, painted them, and brought them in you got a discount for more models. It's cool things like that that gamers remember.

THAT is a great idea. I would love it!

This is a fantastic idea. I really , like what it does.

Sorry not been on for a few days guys been mega busy sorting things out. The bad news is that the property I want is not available long term and only for 18 months now so thats a no go and I am currently looking for an alternative place.

The good news is that I can raise some more cash whilst looking and my commission work is starting to take off a bit now so will help load money into the fund too.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice, I really appreciate it and will update as I find new properties.

Thanks again guys

Martin

Hey guys, just wanted to come back onto this thread. I have now secured a building and it's bigger than I could have imagined, on a high street so lots of footfall and things are rocking along nicely. I have started another thread for my kickstarter but thought I would post it in here too. I know some of you will have little benefit from either the store or webstore as I am limited where I can sell to but hope that you can get behind a fellow gamer and hopeful business start up program with a pound/dollar or 2. It is a small amount to ask but if enough people pledge then the dream becomes more real

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wargames/wargames-a-new-store-that-does-what-all-stores-sho

Thanks in advance guys

I have a friend who works in the local game shop and he said the most income comes from MTG, it's their cash cow. The store stocks GW, flames of war, war machine, chessex, comics, action figure and busts, skateboards, board games; they also go to various nearby cons to sell their products. My advice is to keep your store varied as product popularity rotate in seasons. Online store is only there to sell stuff that couldn't sell locally, or damaged boxes with full undamaged content; hiring the right employees helps too, those that are expert in certain field of the product you sell and actively run tournaments to promote the sale.

All good advice and very much taken on board thanks pal

If you're in Liverpool, I suggest a trip over to FB3 in Manchester, they've weathered the ages and are one of the UK's central points for many organised play tournaments. Go, have a chat, be frank about what you want to know, and try not to let Dave frighten/bite you.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
If you're in Liverpool, I suggest a trip over to FB3 in Manchester, they've weathered the ages and are one of the UK's central points for many organised play tournaments. Go, have a chat, be frank about what you want to know, and try not to let Dave frighten/bite you.

Cheers mate, will look them up and pop over

I'm going to try and not repeat stuff already said, but not sure how well I'll do..


1. Make the space as airy and light as possible. If you have windows, don't block them with non-glass cabinets, posters etc. Make it look welcoming to people (and this is proven with kids and parents) and not like some BO cave.

2. Clean, clean clean. There is a strange but unescapable fact, wargamers smell more than the average human. It might just be one dude, but he'll generate plenty. so keep the air moving. First impressions and all.

3. Engage the community early on. If there are clubs, start going then make sure people know you are opening. But not just for a night, engage and participate. And find out who the better painters are, you'll want stuff in the store to show off.

4. If you are socially awkward, get someone in that isn't to help. My local FLGS is run by a friend that is able to chat with anyone, and will be friendly to all. My missus often pops in with me when I'm buying something, she's the one that needs hurrying up often because she's yaking away, not me. And she's the reason I have bought several boardgames from there.

5. Be -hot on orders. If a customer wants something, get it on a list and get it on the next order. Then message him when it's in.

6. Social media. Get a facebook page, and post all the new toys on it. post cool pictures of customers minis. Be active, and friendly. And show the show to be the same. Some people might be a bit nervous about going somewhere social, if it looks welcoming, it's got a better chance of actually being that way. Get a twitter account and engage the companies that you want to stock, get your name retweeted by some of them.

7. find out who the local games reps are (like a mantic pathfinder, PP press-ganger etc) so you can start getting leagues and tournaments under way. These guys do this for a job. Get them in doing demos. Because demos mean money behind the till.

8. don't overstetch. You'll want to get a load of product in. find out the games played at the various groups, and get that. If you can get a game in it's infancy, then all the better. We've just started Guildball. A lot of stuff sold.

9. Make it easy to play. I personally don't agree with charging for tables, as it discourages attendance. They can't spend money if they aren't in the store. You are up against the internet, you need your customers to be tribally loyal to you, that means getting them in to the store and having fun. By all means charge for a tournament, but make sure there is a reward.

10. food and drink. If you can pick up a second hand vending machine on ebay, and fill it with energy drinks, winner. it'll pay for itself soon. We have a one-stop store next to us so it's a bit pointless here, but unless you can walk a minute or so to a shop, get a vender when you have the free cash. Or just sell it over the counter, will depend how busy you are.

Theres probably a shed load more but I've not had a coffee yet..

Have you read these blogs?


http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=businessofgamingretail
http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=counter
blackdiamondgames.blogspot.com/

I was thinking about opening a games store at one stage but couldn't make the money work out to a wage I was happy with. Reading through these columns though gave me a ton of ideas and things to think about.

Herzlos wrote:
Doesn't darmsphere do that? Though you can order online to collect at the internet rate

Dark sphere charges 25 per cent off retail on line, 20 per cent off in-store. If you order more than £100 retail value on line, and order instore collection, you get the full 25 per cent off. so yes, there is a differential, but when you buy online you have to factor in postage.

Hi!

Lurker here, but thought I could give some advice on this all.

Site Location - Very important. Is it near the University at all? Sure, for GW stuff, parents and kids are going to be a fair chunk of your income but geeky students and access to a place to play MTG and the like will be a big source as well.

I'd have loved a decent place close to University to play some MTG or any other geek game in between classes.

Also, have a word with the University and see if they have any wargaming or card gaming societies and work with them. Might be an easy way to fill the shop once a week for a tournament (these societies get given cash by the University for things like that, so its easy money!).

Now... for some advice you might not want to hear.

Since your main income is going to be via the online shop, maybe its worth getting all that set up first, without the shop. It's going to be quite hard to break into that market without some forward thinking and being able to do a better job than what is currently out there (one of those being your shop needs to be better... the current offers from wayland and elemental are horrible shops from a users perspective).

So my advice, get your online shop up and running first and make sure that's earning enough money to run a physical store BEFORE you set up shop (so to speak!), since you're not going to be able to turn a profit in your shop for a good while since you need to build up your customer base.

Some ideas for your online shop to be different from the rest:

- Ultra user friendly site, needs to be really easy to use.
- Not make it as "nerdy" as the other offerings, it doesn't look cool.
- Offer a simple postal service.. these other sites have 6 or 7 different postage options. Find one and stick with it, nice and simple. Make sure you can have it so you can get items out before 4pm and they arrive the next day. Find a way to get really cheap postage (or free!) for small items as it encourages people to just go "what the heck" if they don't have to add much more money onto the price tag.

(if you need some more help or whatever, PM me, am a web developer part time!).

Just posting to say that I'd like to see pics of this when you're done.

Game stores are like home to me, littered with models and opened soda cans.

Thanks guys. Some great input. Echoes a lot of what i am planning so is a good reassurance. Webstore is in construction and will be very simple in look and use whilst looking professional. Will defo post pics when open but feel freeto check my youtube channel for more visual updates

Some people you should definitely get in touch with:

Esdevium Games - this is the main UK distributor for pretty much all CCGs, board games, RPGs etc. They have a lot of expertise and are generally a nice bunch.

Simple Miniature Games are a fairly small distributor but supply a lot of ranges - Infinity, Malifaux, Spartan Games etc. You want to speak to Graham - he's the owner and is very knowledgeable and a really nice guy.

Best of luck with your venture!

Go to GAMA website and get into the Game Store Resource Forum on Delphi.

Go to GAMA tradeshow and take the classes for beginning retailers on running OP, accounting, etc.

See all the manufacturers at once and learn tons of stuff in 4 days.

 squilverine wrote:
How about beginers and refreshers nights for adult gamers only?

As far as I am aware many stores run beginers nights for children only. This can make older gamers who are looking to either get started or get back into the hobby uncomfortable.

I have often wondered how many of these older guys have been put off getting into/back into the game because they don't want to be lumped with the kids.

Ultimately if you can attract new older gamers they are the ones who will have a large enough disposable income to buy a new army and hobby supplies.

This times 10,000.

The only reason my wife and I shun local game shops is because we do not feel comfortable playing with / around kids. We can stay home and do that. A 21+ or even better 30+ would land us hook, line, and sinker.

I cannot imagine we are the only ones who feel like that.

Yeah this is defo gonna happen. On wed and thur nights I will be open until 11:30 pm and there will be an over 21 policy so as the gamers can learn with their own age groups. I will happily run classes for others if the demand is there. Shame you are not this side of the pond :(

Some of these schemes have a lot of micromanagement
involved. Track if people bring in their models that they bought
at the shop? I can barely track my own collection.

Reserve the tables for events. Tables are your marketing wing,
so use them to market.

Get known!
Is there an entry in the Dakka Store Finder yet? Even if you aren't selling yet, I'd get it up ASAP.
If there is a local model shop that doesn't stock gaming stuff, leave your details and stock ranges. Do the same for them. This would work with book shops, art shops, RPG shops, etc.

Good luck with it. I only get to see small shops with limited stock, but there are a couple popping up with space to play, too.

If the gaming space is away from the store area, either make sure it is visible, or look at getting cameras in. You can't be everywhere at once. Make sure people know they are there.

Will any of the gaming space be bookable for events? If a party wanted to play an Apoc game for a day, would you provide a segregated area for them?

Will the gaming side have a Facebook page or forum? Pre-planning games can save people from a wasted trip. Lugging an army around on a bus to find there's no-one to play against is a sod.

A VIP scheme. If you do look at charging a subscription, maybe give queue-jumping at the tables, and a better discount. Run occasional raffles when a new game comes out, giving away a starter set or rulebook. Give out VIP subs as prizes, or on big purchases.

See whether the local council or community charities give grants for setting up or events.

I'm rambling, but just stuff that popped up while reading.

 McManiak wrote:
Yeah this is defo gonna happen. On wed and thur nights I will be open until 11:30 pm and there will be an over 21 policy so as the gamers can learn with their own age groups. I will happily run classes for others if the demand is there. Shame you are not this side of the pond :(

Lol I wonder what it says about me that I've looked into getting a job in the UK so that I can attend things like salute and stuff