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bibotot wrote:

 Master Shake wrote:
Let's say I take 3 units of purifiers from the nemesis strike force and put them all in Space wolf drop pods.

Turn one, drop pod assault happens and 2 arrive automatically. Can I then roll for the 3rd unit using the rites of teleportation special rule?

I would say yes, since rites of teleportation doesn't stipulate that they have the deep strike special rule, only that they be in deep strike reserve.

I encourage everyone to carefully consider the wording of the rules in question before commenting.

Some people say that you aren't rolling for the unit, but rather the pod. Rites of teleportation specifically allows you to roll for the unit in deep strike reserve.

Thoughts?

3 Purifiers are NOT allowed for Nemesis Force Detachment, since you can only get 2 Heavy Support Choice. Changing the Purifiers into some other unit and I will say yes, the rule of the occupants will transfer to their transport.

Purifiers are elite.

Rules only transfer when you're told they do. Or would you allow a rhino holding a GKSS to deepstrike?

The only example of Deep Strike transferring from one unit to another are Transports with Deep Strike conferring the benefit to its passengers. Other similar examples are embarked units conferring Infiltrate and Outflank to their Transports.

Blanket statements about units not conferring ability to other units they are joined with is flat wrong. Each and every ability needs to evaluated on a case by case basis. Read the actual rule and apply the effect as if GW wrote the rule to apply exactly the way they wrote it, regardless of the oddities that may occur. Units may start the game embarked on Transport and held in Reserves, because the rules say so. Arguing that that there are no rules that tell us how to embark while in Reserves ignores the fact that the rules are in fact right there in black and white.

The reason why we can embark a unit of GK Purifiers into a SW Drop Pod is because Battle Brothers have permission to embark non-dedicated non-faction Battle Brother Transports. The reason why the Purifiers can start in Deep Strike Reserves is because the Transport they have permission to embark pre-game must start in Deep Strike Reserves. The reason why this Combined Unit can roll to enter play on Turn 1 rather than Turn 2 is because the Purifiers never stops being a unit from a Nemesis Strike Formation, did start in Deep Strike Reserves, and Rites of Teleportation specifies the NSF units in DSR roll to enter play on Turn 1, with no specific restriction such as "all models must be from the same Formation". This is a specific example on how several different unit rules interact due to the open language of those rules, netting a significant change to the core concepts of the game.

At any point, GW could have prevented such interactions, but not only did they not prevent it, they seem to in fact encourage such combinations.

SJ

And again you ignore that you can only make one roll, and the drop pod has no permission to arrive turn one. So you are rolling for Unit that is ineligible to arrive, which is breaking a rule.

You can make blanket statements, as you need permission to do anything. Rules have no permission inherently to transfer.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
And again you ignore that you can only make one roll, and the drop pod has no permission to arrive turn one. So you are rolling for Unit that is ineligible to arrive, which is breaking a rule.

You can make blanket statements, as you need permission to do anything. Rules have no permission inherently to transfer.

Combined Reserve Units
Arriving from Reserves
Drop Pod Assault
Rites of Teleportation

Those four rules do not contradict each other, nor include restriction language baring modification by other more advanced rules. Combined Reserve Units tells one roll for all units in the combined group. Arriving from Reserves tells us the combined group must arrive on the same turn together. Drop Pod Assault tells us that any Drop Pod that does arrive on turn may roll to enter play normally. Rites of Teleportation changes the normal Turn 2 roll into a Turn 1 roll, in effect allowing the combined unit to normally roll to enter play on Turn 1.

But I tire of this. Be stubborn all you want, its legal. Only a TO or an FAQ can rule otherwise.

SJ

No it isn't legal, as pointed. The drop pods normal turn is turn two. The gkss may enter turn one. This does not contradict the drop pod

It's explained , he as stubborn as you want.

Dude Purifiers are Elite, which there is 4 slots for that.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No it isn't legal, as pointed. The drop pods normal turn is turn two. The gkss may enter turn one. This does not contradict the drop pod

It's explained , he as stubborn as you want.

If "normal" is both Turn 1 and Turn 2, that would be a contradiction. One rule says roll as normal, the other rule changes when to roll normally, hence no contradiction.

SJ

Jeffersonian, I totally agree with you on this, seems unusually clear-cut in fact. Is the unit in question in deep strike reserves? You bet it is. Does the unit belong to the nsf detachment? Sure does. Do the brb rules instruct us to make one reserves roll for both the transport and its contents for them to enter together via deep strike reserves? Check. And do rites of teleportation explicitly allow that roll to be made on turn one? Well hey, looks like that's the entire purpose of that rule!

Pretending otherwise is either willful ignorance or an incredible failure of reading comprehension.

It must be noted, however, that GK would never willingly tarnish themselves by riding to battle with the infidel forces of the light gray marines, so the entire discussion is a moot point. Cheers!

Yep, pretty much. If only Rites stated it was for DS via Teleportion only, there would be no confusion. Unfortunately, GW created a situation that allows their rules to combine into interesting and sometimes exploitive ways.

And yes, even though I would never use this tactic, I defend the ability to use the tactic because it is legal until such time as GW posts a countering FAQ, or my TO rules it incorrectly.

SJ

Sounds like a pretty sweet tactic to me, too bad I don't like those dirty space wolves. If by the time they get to my DA they give me fast attack pods you bet my deathwing are gonna enjoy some podded purifier support.

Anywho, as per the rules, it also seems pretty clear to me. I think I can concede that the reserves rules and embarking into a transport rules are pretty funky, but regardless of where writing can be improved, it's pretty obvious we all know how embarking in a transport in reserves is supposed to work. As cool as it would be for my termies to fly on the field on top of my caestus assault ram, its clear they should be INSIDE it.

No rules conflict here, as Fachxphyre walked through it you can follow each rule to conclusion without conflict unless you go searching for problems.

Sorry, was on wrong page...