6th Ed. Ork Changes and Tactics. (Updated 9/7 with Ork FAQ 1.3)

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Ascalam**

matphat wrote:
waaaaghboss wrote:How are warbuggies? I have 5 of the old trukks that I might convert into buggies to go with my new shooty ork army.

I've always ran 3 buggies in my speed freek lists, and had great success with them. However, I'm not sure how hullpoints are going to impact them yet.
Just be careful that you don't build them the same size as trukks, or people might complain about size. You may also find them harder to get though terrain with such a long wheel base.
I'd suggest chopping them down a little.

The old Trukks (pre the current trukk kit) are about warbuggy sized. There's no real need to chop them down. A lot of us old fogies converted out old assault sleds into buggies when the new trukk (which is huge by comparison) came along.

**Jidmah**

Orkaswampa wrote:Here's an Idea -

In the bastion entry in the BRB it says it has 4x Heavy Bolters (TYPICALLY on each facing) - Does this mean it can be modelled on one facing, as its not a must its just typical that they do and sometimes might not!?

Assuming you can have 4 heavy bolters on one facing, i think a squad of gretchin inside the bastion would work quite well
4x Quad Gun shots at T/L BS3
12x Heavy Bolter Shots at BS3

Grot win?? Thoughts please! --- Just read Fortification rules and it uses an Icarus Lascannon on the roof as an EMPLACED WEAPON, meaning squad inside can fire that without being exposed on the roof

Also nice place to dump an objective

Altering models for your advantage is not against the rules, but still a dick move. Imagine your opponent glueing both sponsons of a landraider/leman russ/predator to the same side of the vehicle to get better fire angles, you wouldn't let that fly, would you?

**AresX8**

kowbasher wrote:
Capt. Camping wrote:
kowbasher wrote:After 4 games of trying to run Kan Walls (my favorate list from 5th) I've concluded that it just doesn't work anymore. The 5+ save just isn't enough to save Kanz whatsoever with only 2 HP each. Perhaps if they had 3 a piece it would still work, but right now I'm moving into running a Green Tide list myself.

I've had 3 games running 2x30 mobs of Shootas, and 4x20 mobs of Sluggs (damn AOBR boyz are everywhere), and I can say that I am enjoying the list alot. Sure it's a pain to move that much infantry, but I'm getting quicker at the set-up and the movement phase each game.

Sluggas are perhaps the weakest point of the core right now. I basically run them screaming at the opponent and hope he panics and shoots them instead of the shootas, lootas, or dakkajets. What typically happens though is I keep failing damn 6-7" charges with them all the time! Overwatch does just enough to shave of 2-3 boyz in which I loose 1-2" and can't seem to ever roll above 5-6. Very frustrating, considering it's almost 2 shooting phases for the enemy to finish off the sluggas.

Shoota boyz are worth their weight in gold like it has been mentioned. It is really easy to move up to around 18" to get your full salvo of shots then just sit and wait for your opponent to attempt a charge next turn against them, fail, and get 2 rounds of shooting yourself. Kinda silly after awhile how easy it is.

Right now I'm testing what is the best types of supporting units for the tide and I'm finding that Lootas and Dakkajets are brilliantly amazing at clearing a path for the boyz and destroying units holding objectives on the opponent's side of the board. Three dakkajets screaming in on turn 2 or 3 with a Waagh! is absolutely devistating and I've destroyed complete squads of Havocs and Longfangs with barely any effort. Lootas are always good.

I think I'll be trimming of a squad or two of Sluggas and trying out Big Guns or the Gretchin + Aegis Defense Line for even more dakka. Though it does pain me a bit to say that assualt Ork lists don't seem to work anymore...just overwhealm your opponent with numbers and more dakka, then assualt to wipe out the squad.

Did you use power klaws or big choppa in the nob? and eavy armor in the lead nob? Also rokkit or big shoota in the mobs?

Big Shoots x 3 for the Shoota mobs and they worked real well. Nothing on the Slugga mobs beacuse I need them to either Run or Assault. Never a fan of rokkits in the mobs...slightly too expensive for something that tends to miss too often.

Out of habit I've kept the Nobz with PKs, but to be honest I'm finding it rarer and rarer that I can actually use them! With challenges anyone with AP4 or greater and higher iniative than 2 has a great chance to kill my nob with no effort, and I don't even get to hit back. I actually find my nob declining the challenge and sitting akwardly in the middle of the fight, twiddling his thumbs as I hope the pure numbers of the boyz is enough to force enough saves. With the lack of the PK and lack of Fearless wounds, I find combats are not really as descisive as they used to be, and tend to get dragged out 2-3 rounds. Unless of course the opposing units is way better at CC than me, like Khorne Berzerkers, then I tend to avoid fighting them in CC as long as possible and instead strafing run them with the Dakkajets.

Not sure if Big Choppas are a good answer though. Nobz are Initative 3 if I recall properly (usually see them with PKs!), so against a Marine Sgt. I should be able to get off 3-4 S6-7 attacks before I get kill right? I never use bosspoles on mobs of 30, so the loss the the nob isn't that bad. Heck doing that I might be able to have an inexpensive Demon Weapon absorber for a round as the boyz kill of the marines. Sad state of affairs when I look at my nobz as sacrifical models instead of the killy badasses they used to be.

Anyone running mobs without a nob?

Keep the Nob. Don't stick him in the front, have him more in the middle of the mob, and he can't accept the challenge.

Here's the breakdown of how he can't accept the challenge or be picked out by Precision Strikes:

1. "Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any blows are struck." pg. 64. This means this is before the initiative step pile-in moves.

2. "A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if:

- During its initiative step, it is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
- During its initiative step, it is within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with one or more enemy models in the same combat." pg 23.

2. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot issue challenges." pg. 64. This means your Nob can't issue a challenge either, because of clause 1.

3. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges." pg. 64. This means Nobs that are not engaged as per clause 2 cannot accept challenges. Cannot accept challenges != refusing challenges.

4. "Models make their attacks when their Initiative step is reached.... Note that certain situations, abilities and weapons [Emphasis mine] can modify a model's Initiative." pg. 23. This means that a Nob piles in at I1 because of his PK and also attacks at I1 because of the PK.

5. "Wounds from Precision Strikes are allocated against an engaged model (or models) of your choice in the unit he is attacking, rather than following the normal rounds for Wound allocation." pg. 63. This means that a Nob cannot be picked out in combat because he is not engaged as per clause 2.

I find it amazing how not a lot of people are reading the minute details of the rules.

EDIT: Note that of course this really only works in the first round of combat. Once the second round starts, the Nob can of course be challenged or be hit by Precision Strikes since he should be clearly engaged.

**Orkaswampa**

No i wouldnt, but this more or less represents the ramshackle of orks strapping big shoota's all over the place, to a sensible degree, ah well

**Capt. Camping**

I think those slugga boyz will be useful to capture a point, but we know eventually they will die.

**matphat**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kowbasher wrote:
Anyone running mobs without a nob?

I was actually thinking that the extra points could go towards more boyz instead of the Nob.
Haven't tried it yet, but if a Nob w/ PK and BP is 46pts, then that's 7.6 more boyz, and if you are currently running 3 mobs of boyz, then you could add another mob of 23 boyz. That's nothing to sneeze at. You'll just need to re-allocate your PK tank busting duties to some one else. Preferably someone ranged.

**kowbasher**

AresX8 wrote:
kowbasher wrote:
Capt. Camping wrote:
kowbasher wrote:After 4 games of trying to run Kan Walls (my favorate list from 5th) I've concluded that it just doesn't work anymore. The 5+ save just isn't enough to save Kanz whatsoever with only 2 HP each. Perhaps if they had 3 a piece it would still work, but right now I'm moving into running a Green Tide list myself.

I've had 3 games running 2x30 mobs of Shootas, and 4x20 mobs of Sluggs (damn AOBR boyz are everywhere), and I can say that I am enjoying the list alot. Sure it's a pain to move that much infantry, but I'm getting quicker at the set-up and the movement phase each game.

Sluggas are perhaps the weakest point of the core right now. I basically run them screaming at the opponent and hope he panics and shoots them instead of the shootas, lootas, or dakkajets. What typically happens though is I keep failing damn 6-7" charges with them all the time! Overwatch does just enough to shave of 2-3 boyz in which I loose 1-2" and can't seem to ever roll above 5-6. Very frustrating, considering it's almost 2 shooting phases for the enemy to finish off the sluggas.

Shoota boyz are worth their weight in gold like it has been mentioned. It is really easy to move up to around 18" to get your full salvo of shots then just sit and wait for your opponent to attempt a charge next turn against them, fail, and get 2 rounds of shooting yourself. Kinda silly after awhile how easy it is.

Right now I'm testing what is the best types of supporting units for the tide and I'm finding that Lootas and Dakkajets are brilliantly amazing at clearing a path for the boyz and destroying units holding objectives on the opponent's side of the board. Three dakkajets screaming in on turn 2 or 3 with a Waagh! is absolutely devistating and I've destroyed complete squads of Havocs and Longfangs with barely any effort. Lootas are always good.

I think I'll be trimming of a squad or two of Sluggas and trying out Big Guns or the Gretchin + Aegis Defense Line for even more dakka. Though it does pain me a bit to say that assualt Ork lists don't seem to work anymore...just overwhealm your opponent with numbers and more dakka, then assualt to wipe out the squad.

Did you use power klaws or big choppa in the nob? and eavy armor in the lead nob? Also rokkit or big shoota in the mobs?

Big Shoots x 3 for the Shoota mobs and they worked real well. Nothing on the Slugga mobs beacuse I need them to either Run or Assault. Never a fan of rokkits in the mobs...slightly too expensive for something that tends to miss too often.

Out of habit I've kept the Nobz with PKs, but to be honest I'm finding it rarer and rarer that I can actually use them! With challenges anyone with AP4 or greater and higher iniative than 2 has a great chance to kill my nob with no effort, and I don't even get to hit back. I actually find my nob declining the challenge and sitting akwardly in the middle of the fight, twiddling his thumbs as I hope the pure numbers of the boyz is enough to force enough saves. With the lack of the PK and lack of Fearless wounds, I find combats are not really as descisive as they used to be, and tend to get dragged out 2-3 rounds. Unless of course the opposing units is way better at CC than me, like Khorne Berzerkers, then I tend to avoid fighting them in CC as long as possible and instead strafing run them with the Dakkajets.

Not sure if Big Choppas are a good answer though. Nobz are Initative 3 if I recall properly (usually see them with PKs!), so against a Marine Sgt. I should be able to get off 3-4 S6-7 attacks before I get kill right? I never use bosspoles on mobs of 30, so the loss the the nob isn't that bad. Heck doing that I might be able to have an inexpensive Demon Weapon absorber for a round as the boyz kill of the marines. Sad state of affairs when I look at my nobz as sacrifical models instead of the killy badasses they used to be.

Anyone running mobs without a nob?

Keep the Nob. Don't stick him in the front, have him more in the middle of the mob, and he can't accept the challenge.

Here's the breakdown of how he can't accept the challenge or be picked out by Precision Strikes:

1. "Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any blows are struck." pg. 64. This means this is before the initiative step pile-in moves.

2. "A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if:

- During its initiative step, it is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
- During its initiative step, it is within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with one or more enemy models in the same combat." pg 23.

2. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot issue challenges." pg. 64. This means your Nob can't issue a challenge either, because of clause 1.

3. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges." pg. 64. This means Nobs that are not engaged as per clause 2 cannot accept challenges. Cannot accept challenges != refusing challenges.

4. "Models make their attacks when their Initiative step is reached.... Note that certain situations, abilities and weapons [Emphasis mine] can modify a model's Initiative." pg. 23. This means that a Nob piles in at I1 because of his PK and also attacks at I1 because of the PK.

5. "Wounds from Precision Strikes are allocated against an engaged model (or models) of your choice in the unit he is attacking, rather than following the normal rounds for Wound allocation." pg. 63. This means that a Nob cannot be picked out in combat because he is not engaged as per clause 2.

I find it amazing how not a lot of people are reading the minute details of the rules.

EDIT: Note that of course this really only works in the first round of combat. Once the second round starts, the Nob can of course be challenged or be hit by Precision Strikes since he should be clearly engaged.

Hmmm I should give that second a 4th look, you may have found the magic loophole!? I was always under the impression that when you accepted a challenge your character would then move 'magically' into B2B with the challenger thus "engaging" him, but if you cannot accept a challenge beacuse you are not engaged in the first place, this suddenly got awesome!

**Ascalam**

They can't challenge you in the first place unless you are a valid target for smacking about (engaged)

If you are too far back in the mob, you aren't engaged yet

**waaaaghboss**

matphat wrote:
waaaaghboss wrote:How are warbuggies? I have 5 of the old trukks that I might convert into buggies to go with my new shooty ork army.

I've always ran 3 buggies in my speed freek lists, and had great success with them. However, I'm not sure how hullpoints are going to impact them yet.
Just be careful that you don't build them the same size as trukks, or people might complain about size. You may also find them harder to get though terrain with such a long wheel base.
I'd suggest chopping them down a little.

I might have to. These are the old plastic trukks that were around back in 3rd edition, so they might be smaller than current trucks and about the rough size of buggies? Maybe I should rethink this and just keep them as trukks in case I ever feel like sending out tincans and try something else to get buggies into my list. Buggies just seem pretty solid at 30some points a pop.

EDIT just looked at GWs site and I'm blown away that they still use the old old trakks and buggies! Those things are hideous! To further beat a dead horse, 30 bucks for something that makes me cringe?

**kowbasher**

waaaaghboss wrote:
matphat wrote:
waaaaghboss wrote:How are warbuggies? I have 5 of the old trukks that I might convert into buggies to go with my new shooty ork army.

I've always ran 3 buggies in my speed freek lists, and had great success with them. However, I'm not sure how hullpoints are going to impact them yet.
Just be careful that you don't build them the same size as trukks, or people might complain about size. You may also find them harder to get though terrain with such a long wheel base.
I'd suggest chopping them down a little.

I might have to. These are the old plastic trukks that were around back in 3rd edition, so they might be smaller than current trucks and about the rough size of buggies? Maybe I should rethink this and just keep them as trukks in case I ever feel like sending out tincans and try something else to get buggies into my list. Buggies just seem pretty solid at 30some points a pop.

I've converted my old 3E trukks into buggies and they work great. Slightly wider than the offical buggy model and my coverted deff copta to buggy conversions, but nothing terrible or game breaking. I just slapped an old tank turrent into the back bucket and some extra bitz and it looks the part just fine.

**Anvildude**

What's amusing is that I already ran my Battlewagons with Armour, 'Ard Case, Killkannon, Kannon, 4x Rokkits, Grot riggers, and with a Big Mek KFF and 3 Burnameks (along with 2/3 Burnas) inside.

Of course, I also run one with all the 'close combat' attachments in it as well.

**Capt. Camping**

If you use Battlewagon with Ard case, it gets another hull point?

**Dr. What**

Would this be utilising the best that shooty Orks in 6th can give?

We'll start with the basic core of the force:

Big Mek with KFF - 85 points

4 mobs of 20 boyz (18 with shootas, 2 with Big Shootas) - 520 points

That's 605 points

Now for the toyz:

Lootas X10 - 150

Lootas X10 - 150

Dakkajet with Extra Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130

Dakkajet with Extra Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130

Kannons X3 - 60

Lobbas X3 - 75

Kannons X3 - 60

Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Gun - 100

1460

Leaves 40 Points left to sprinkle in some other things. Anybody got thoughts on that?

**Ascalam**

I don't think so. It just ceases to be open-topped.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that though...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Capt. Camping wrote:If you use Battlewagon with Ard case, it gets another hull point?

**kenshin620**

waaaaghboss wrote:

EDIT just looked at GWs site and I'm blown away that they still use the old old trakks and buggies! Those things are hideous! To further beat a dead horse, 30 bucks for something that makes me cringe?

Rumors say that 2013 might have a wave of orks with buggies and koptas

**Ascalam**

It would be about time

At least we got the AOBR koptas, which are far better than the fugly metal ones.

I'd be interested to see whaich way they took buggies though, as my evil go-karts are a bit unimposing at present (the official model oens anyway

)

**matphat**

Dr. What wrote:Would this be utilising the best that shooty Orks in 6th can give?

We'll start with the basic core of the force:

Big Mek with KFF - 85 points

4 mobs of 20 boyz (18 with shootas, 2 with Big Shootas) - 520 points

That's 605 points

Now for the toyz:

Lootas X10 - 150

Lootas X10 - 150

Dakkajet with Extra Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130

Dakkajet with Extra Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130

Kannons X3 - 60

Lobbas X3 - 75

Kannons X3 - 60

Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Gun - 100

1460

Leaves 40 Points left to sprinkle in some other things. Anybody got thoughts on that?

how about some Grots to man the defense line?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ascalam wrote:It would be about time

At least we got the AOBR koptas, which are far better than the fugly metal ones.

I'd be interested to see whaich way they took buggies though, as my evil go-karts are a bit unimposing at present (the official model oens anyway )

I like my scratch built buggies. I'll be sad when official ones are released, cause I'll probably want some.

**shameless plug**

**waaaaghboss**

Your buggies are amazing.

Whats the best weapons to put on a dreadnaught for a shooty army?

**Capt. Camping**

As long as you are using killa kans as shooting platforms, anything even KMB

**Anvildude**

For a Deffdredd, though? Probably Big Shootas, using sheer volume to overcome bad BS- or Skorchas, so you don't have to worry about BS at all.

**youbedead**

HOnestly just give it more klaws, it krumps better then it dakka's

**Capt. Camping**

Yes, I use scorcha in Deffdread. About the nob in the mob, I think he will have to be in the second or middle line of the 20 boyz. But if you attack a vehicle or walker be careful with the overwatch.

**Ascalam**

All of mine have either all klaws, claw and skorcha or 2 skorchas.

I can see why Big shootas would be useful, but i'm a pyro

**Zog Off**

Hey, matphat! You're doing an awesome job collecting all of the data us Orks need to know for 6th Edition! I have a request, though. If anything on the first page has been verified by a battle report, could you post a link to the battle report, kind of like a citation? I think that would be awesome!

**ruff**

Zog Off wrote:Hey, matphat! You're doing an awesome job collecting all of the data us Orks need to know for 6th Edition! I have a request, though. If anything on the first page has been verified by a battle report, could you post a link to the battle report, kind of like a citation? I think that would be awesome!

yes I have to agree.. Awesome job bud..

**matphat**

Thanks all! I'm having a blast doing it. I'm also more than happy to post citations on verified tactics.
Right now, everything I have came from this thread, a few other threads on Dakka, and one BatRep from Da40kOrks on Youtube.
I'm going to start digging in to more batreps to verify some of the other tactics, and find new ones. Also, if you find a tactic in Dakka, a Batrep, or anywhere else, feel free to PM it to me or drop it here. I'll add it in asap.

**Clang**

Even if we decide to save points by leaving out the cost of a PK, is a Boss still worth taking simply for the higher Ld and a bosspole or other cheap 'support' wargear?

**Jidmah**

Ascalam wrote:It would be about time

At least we got the AOBR koptas, which are far better than the fugly metal ones.

I'd be interested to see whaich way they took buggies though, as my evil go-karts are a bit unimposing at present (the official model oens anyway )

IA8 has awesome concept art for buggies. If you have your own gold mine, you could buy a taurus(IG buggie) and the nob bikerz set to build them (the are made from bits out of these two sets). It's 100+ GBP per buggy though :|

**Ascalam**

I have IA8

It would be awesome if that is what we wind up getting

My goldmine played out years ago, unfortunately, or i would have a whole lot more models

I'm an addict

Should i suddenly find a buyer for both kidneys, both lungs and my heart i'd definitely consider it

**Mushkilla**

I have been running an airbase, dakkajets and nob bikers it seems pretty solid, and is loads of fun without having to move 100+ models everyturn.

Da Airbase:

Aegis defence line, quad gun and comms. I stick 10 gretchins behind it to man the guns at BS3, they are actually smaller then the aegis line walls so can't be shot/or get ridiculous cover saves. I also stick a squad of 10-15 lootas behind the line so they get a nice 4+ cover save. This is a great firebase downing enemy fliers with ease and putting the dakka on anything in range, in addition I get to re-roll the reserves for my jets.

I can just imagine a bunch of grots round a radar table (WW2 style) calling on the radio "Broken arrer! We need strike on target call sign Wiskey, Alpha, Alpha, Alpha, Golf, Hotel!"

"Wilko ground kontrol... Skwadron Leader to the rest of you gitz. Time for some Waaagh from above, boys"

Dakkajets handy stats:

At BS3 9 twin linked shots will on average equate to 7 hits. So that mean 14 hits with Waagh! Against anything T4 and under that equates to 6 wounds (12 when you waagh!).

BS3 9(18) shots:

AV10 AV11 AV12
3.5(7) 2.3(4.6) 1.1(2.3)

Suffice to say Dakkajets tear through AV10 and AV11.