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So I bought a Woc army a few years ago for a painting challenge and painted them up but never played with them. I am trying to use the minatures I have when writing this list. Any advice would be appreciated. and no i dont have any skull crushers nor the money to buy them. The list is for 2400

Lords

Chaos lord
MoT, Disc, talisman of preservation, enchanted shield, 3rd eye, burning body, great weapon

Heros

Exalted Hero
BSB, MoN, shield, 5++ ward, ironcurse icon

Sorc
LvL 2, Lore of Death, Chaos steed, Familiar, Dispel scroll

Core

18 warriors, MoN, Shields, FC (bsb here)

18 warriors, MoN, Shields, FC

5 Hounds

5 Hounds

10 maruaders, flail, MoK

10 maruaders, flail, MoK

10 maruaders, flail, MoK

5 Marauder horsemen, flails, javilins, MoK

Special

5 Knights, MoK, Encorcled weapons, musician (sorc goes here)

5 Knights, MoK, Encorcled weapons, musician

2399

Im working with just a handful of stuff i got while the last book was out before things changed significantly. I have a limited selection to pick from for any changes. Things i have are more warriors, more marauders, lord/sorc on manticore, ogres, and more hounds. I know very limited but its what i got and i am trying to get something half decent out of it. Thanks

Honestly I think this would be neat to try right off the bat. The only thing I'd change right away is to try and get Crown of Command on your lord, skip Burning Body because you'll run into opposing dragonbane gems more often than overly annoying regeneration... and if you get trapped in a challenge with someone with a dragonbane gem you're screwed. Crown of Command practically negates one of the big weaknesses of that setup, which is dealing with combat res. Drop 1 warrior from your 18 where your BSB is going to get the points, I think that'll be enough. Scaled Skin or Soulfeeder would be neat too, if you can squeeze some points somewhere... but don't think there's much worth dropping after that.

 Evertras wrote:
Honestly I think this would be neat to try right off the bat. The only thing I'd change right away is to try and get Crown of Command on your lord, skip Burning Body because you'll run into opposing dragonbane gems more often than overly annoying regeneration... and if you get trapped in a challenge with someone with a dragonbane gem you're screwed. Crown of Command practically negates one of the big weaknesses of that setup, which is dealing with combat res. Drop 1 warrior from your 18 where your BSB is going to get the points, I think that'll be enough. Scaled Skin or Soulfeeder would be neat too, if you can squeeze some points somewhere... but don't think there's much worth dropping after that.

True, I was really banking on the fact that the lord would be incredably difficult to wound and being that he is str 7 having so many attacks that he can usually win combat against infantry and the burning body will help him be able to tank monsters with regen. I figure having str 7 he should be able to put the hurt on most monsters and be able to survive with a 3++ rerolling 1's.

The only criticism I can see is that you don't have a level 4 and this could put you at a downside verses anyone with a level 4.

 welshhoppo wrote:
The only criticism I can see is that you don't have a level 4 and this could put you at a downside verses anyone with a level 4.

I had considered that as well and thats why i made sure to bring a dispel scroll. It is something ill have to play with

It's kinda cheating to use Mark of Tzeentch/Tal. of Pres./3rd Eye on the same character. Try to play a little more honestly and remove 1 of these 3.

KeyserSoze wrote:
It's kinda cheating to use Mark of Tzeentch/Tal. of Pres./3rd Eye on the same character. Try to play a little more honestly and remove 1 of these 3.

No. It's a good straightforward combo. There's nothing 'dishonest' about it.

KeyserSoze wrote:
It's kinda cheating to use Mark of Tzeentch/Tal. of Pres./3rd Eye on the same character. Try to play a little more honestly and remove 1 of these 3.

That's not even true its a legit combo becaude the character has no static combat res he's in trouble against hordes so he's not unkillable. He just requires some thought

 captain collius wrote:

KeyserSoze wrote:
It's kinda cheating to use Mark of Tzeentch/Tal. of Pres./3rd Eye on the same character. Try to play a little more honestly and remove 1 of these 3.

That's not even true its a legit combo becaude the character has no static combat res he's in trouble against hordes so he's not unkillable. He just requires some thought

exactly. If i hit a horde with a bsb and banner im already at -5 combat res and i do believe that the lord only has 5 attacks. Where this will hurt a player is against characters who cannot decline challanges or monsters that he will hit on 3's and wound on 3's

Besides with this buid he has a 3+/3++ in combat.


BTW to rectify this give him scaled skin this with mounted chaos armor grants a 1+ even with a two handed weapon

 captain collius wrote:
Besides with this buid he has a 3+/3++ in combat.


BTW to rectify this give him scaled skin this with mounted chaos armor grants a 1+ even with a two handed weapon

Or even the Helm of Many Eyes, Barded Steed, ToP Third Eye of Tzeentch and a GW. For strikes at initiative S7 with a 1+.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
Besides with this buid he has a 3+/3++ in combat.


BTW to rectify this give him scaled skin this with mounted chaos armor grants a 1+ even with a two handed weapon

Or even the Helm of Many Eyes, Barded Steed, ToP Third Eye of Tzeentch and a GW. For strikes at initiative S7 with a 1+.

How is he getting GW strikes at initiative?

Helm of Many eyes grants Always Strike First. Great Weapons are Always Strike Last. Put the two together and they cancel out.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Helm of Many eyes grants Always Strike First. Great Weapons are Always Strike Last. Put the two together and they cancel out.

Im definatly thinking that moving him to a barded steed with that now and drop the mark on one of the knight units

 namiel wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Helm of Many eyes grants Always Strike First. Great Weapons are Always Strike Last. Put the two together and they cancel out.

Im definatly thinking that moving him to a barded steed with that now and drop the mark on one of the knight units

But then you have to decide what is better, a striking at initiative S7 attack from a GW, or a ASF attack from a S6 Halberd. With his massive I level, you will often get re-rolls.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Helm of Many eyes grants Always Strike First. Great Weapons are Always Strike Last. Put the two together and they cancel out.

Im definatly thinking that moving him to a barded steed with that now and drop the mark on one of the knight units

But then you have to decide what is better, a striking at initiative S7 attack from a GW, or a ASF attack from a S6 Halberd. With his massive I level, you will often get re-rolls.

Str 7 will be wounding giants on 3's, black orc warbosses on 2's......thats pretty awesome

 namiel wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Helm of Many eyes grants Always Strike First. Great Weapons are Always Strike Last. Put the two together and they cancel out.

Im definatly thinking that moving him to a barded steed with that now and drop the mark on one of the knight units

But then you have to decide what is better, a striking at initiative S7 attack from a GW, or a ASF attack from a S6 Halberd. With his massive I level, you will often get re-rolls.

Str 7 will be wounding giants on 3's, black orc warbosses on 2's......thats pretty awesome

Well it depends on your Meta. If you are only fighting elves then you are unlikely to come across anything at T5, anything less than that and Halberds wound on 2's. If you are likely to run into tougher critters, then the GW will probably be better. If only there was someone who browses this forum who can give us the maths behind a GW without re-rolls and a Halberd with re-rolls.....

 welshhoppo wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Helm of Many eyes grants Always Strike First. Great Weapons are Always Strike Last. Put the two together and they cancel out.

Im definatly thinking that moving him to a barded steed with that now and drop the mark on one of the knight units

But then you have to decide what is better, a striking at initiative S7 attack from a GW, or a ASF attack from a S6 Halberd. With his massive I level, you will often get re-rolls.

Str 7 will be wounding giants on 3's, black orc warbosses on 2's......thats pretty awesome

Well it depends on your Meta. If you are only fighting elves then you are unlikely to come across anything at T5, anything less than that and Halberds wound on 2's. If you are likely to run into tougher critters, then the GW will probably be better. If only there was someone who browses this forum who can give us the maths behind a GW without re-rolls and a Halberd with re-rolls.....

Very true. I dont see a whole lot of T5 or higher since people have given up on most monsters due to cannons being so cheap and easy to bring. Chariots and some characters are T5 but thats about it. I am the only one who really still brings lots of high T models. There are LOTS of elf players in my area though

The helm barded halberd is the way to go. The point of taking the disk is to give you more options and take you away from bad matchups

 captain collius wrote:
The helm barded halberd is the way to go. The point of taking the disk is to give you more options and take you away from bad matchups

Having the 20" march and the 22" charge range is pretty stellar as well. I think that may be better suited on an exalted hero for warmachine hunting and chaff clearing. Would losing the BSB for a flying hero be worth it?

or make the BSB a flying hero to troubleshoot? win/win/giggle

 Darksyde wrote:
or make the BSB a flying hero to troubleshoot? win/win/giggle

The problem is just thinking here is if he does bite the dust then that bsb marker adds an extra 125 victory points on top of what he already is because the extra 25 from the bsb and taking that out is a free 100 points. Also how many times will he be in range if hes off dealing with stuff halfway across the board?

Are warriors of chaos one if those armies that truly need a bsb? I'm so used to playing ogres that really need a bsb.

Also how many times will he be in range if hes off dealing with stuff halfway across the board?

This is kinda the point of why to put him on disc. If your army gets spread out you can also race him back and forth to give the reroll where it is needed when it is needed. The being able to trouble shoot usually means send him to get warmachines early when reroll isn't needed, then shoot him back to that faster crusher or knight unit that needs it, then when the warriors need it more it is easy to shoot him far as hell again to cover them, etc.

Are warriors of chaos one if those armies that truly need a bsb

as an elite troop army it really is useful. a lot of times you are fighting heavy deep ranks or hordes with single blocks of fighters. The static combat res can get you if you aren't careful and sometimes you need to gamble and having that fall back is worth it. L8 on your army is decent but when you could gamble poorly having the reroll on it is priceless.

I never used to run a BSB at all, because I always thought to loose an expensive hero to static res sucks. However someone on here once told me that a warriors of chaos list is never truly competitive unless it has a BSB, since then I have always taken one and not looked back.

You need to pick your fights, LUCKILY with M10 you should get the charge which means your up +2 before wounds delt so providing your into a warmachine, monster, or something offering very little res youll be fine IMO

therealsuperman wrote:
I never used to run a BSB at all, because I always thought to loose an expensive hero to static res sucks. However someone on here once told me that a warriors of chaos list is never truly competitive unless it has a BSB, since then I have always taken one and not looked back.

You need to pick your fights, LUCKILY with M10 you should get the charge which means your up +2 before wounds delt so providing your into a warmachine, monster, or something offering very little res youll be fine IMO

Does the bsb die just like a banner if it chooses to flee or is broken from combat?

 namiel wrote:

therealsuperman wrote:
I never used to run a BSB at all, because I always thought to loose an expensive hero to static res sucks. However someone on here once told me that a warriors of chaos list is never truly competitive unless it has a BSB, since then I have always taken one and not looked back.

You need to pick your fights, LUCKILY with M10 you should get the charge which means your up +2 before wounds delt so providing your into a warmachine, monster, or something offering very little res youll be fine IMO

Does the bsb die just like a banner if it chooses to flee or is broken from combat?

Yes, apparently banners are made from a highly explosive material that explodes upon the threat of death.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 namiel wrote:

therealsuperman wrote:
I never used to run a BSB at all, because I always thought to loose an expensive hero to static res sucks. However someone on here once told me that a warriors of chaos list is never truly competitive unless it has a BSB, since then I have always taken one and not looked back.

You need to pick your fights, LUCKILY with M10 you should get the charge which means your up +2 before wounds delt so providing your into a warmachine, monster, or something offering very little res youll be fine IMO

Does the bsb die just like a banner if it chooses to flee or is broken from combat?

Yes, apparently banners are made from a highly explosive material that explodes upon the threat of death.

See I'd like him to be able to flee as a charge reaction so he doesn't get bogged down in the rare chance he gets charged by say.....zombies

Chaos shouldn't have the option to flee. These Warriors don't run, they RIP AND TEAR.

it is not that BSB and SBs are made of explosive. read the fluff explain in the BRB about this. It is because they are the fiercest warriors which is why they have the same stat line while carrying a flag and not always a weapon. They will never run from battle even when "flee" is what happens via rules. while the unit flees they will stand and try to hold off the enemy single handedly while the unit runs. They will never dishonor the standard they bear. This is even more so for the BSB and makes sense while not in a unit he will never charge reaction flee as he will never show weakness in front of the army as he is the morale of the entire army in a physical embodiment.

If anyone disagrees with this I can attest to it as a prior military myself. Even in motivational runs, we run with our unit colors which are big, heavy and cumbersome and make running painful. With this standard we would not only run with the unit but sometimes run laps around the unit shouting encouragement and makes the whole come together even more.

The thought of this fluff makes perfect sense in my opinion and I have no issues with it even when it leads to losing points to a bad match-up. this just means my opponent's general was more strategic or more lucky and made a good decision of take out the morale of the army instead of a large bulk of forces. This is the same as taking out a general in front of all his troops in a way.