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Hello all, I used to play Tau for a short time in 6th edition and enjoyed the heavy shooting aspect, I am currently looking into getting back into 40k and starting with 7th edition.

So how are Tau currently doing in 7th edition?

Cheers

They lost their cheese lists (ovesa star, allied psykers onto riptides, and buffmanders cannot touch riptides anymore) but their general lists got stronger.

4+ jink on our vehicles is awesome, since d-pods makes them a 3+ and we really dont care about snapfiring afterwords.

Devilfish and Piranha can score, which is a very awesome/durable scoring tactic.

New vehicle exploding charts pretty much prevents our vehicles from exploding without an AP1 shot, since AP2 needs a 6 to explode our fish/hammerhead/skyray (piranha are opentopped so its a 5+ with ap2 guns).

They're kind of OP. 7th is a very shooty edition. I've been tabled several times before I could even assault anything. I switched to a drop pod list and still get blown to bits most of the time.

I would say that they are worse off than in 6th. Though, they still have one of the better codexes, lots of codexes are worse of than the Tau one. Pure Tau lists were not winning tournaments in the final days of 6th and now they can not really reap the benefits from having allies. Vehicles got better by a decent amount and Tau have trouble dealing with heavy armour. That said, in an environment where no allies are allowed, the Tau codex is one of the better.

Tau are still not bad, but I would not play them if your goal was winning cutthroat tournaments. I have a hard time describing them as OP, but they still have really good shooting.

still a good solid book but their not top tier anymore. magic has become the new big thing for the books on tournaments to abuse and the tau have no psychic counters. the farsight enclave is still fairly competitive though again not as much as before. give the choice id take farsight enclave over generic tau if i was going to a tournament. just my opinion.

Still very solid, but won't beat the top dogs in equal standing unless you are a better player and can take advantage of tau's edges and sidestep the problems.

They can win a GT if you are some kinf of a tactical geni-CREEEED

I've heard of Tau getting stomped hard by Necrons and Eldar so far, but I have yet to see that for myself so take that as you will.

No wonder they struggle with necrons, the current incarnation of the CCB is pretty much tailored against them.

I think it really depends on what you're playing. Eternal war is pretty static, which means your gunline tau will have a field day. Meanwhile, maelstrom of war is focused on mobility and turn-to-turn plays, which your standard shooty tau army can't really do. Of course, you could play mech tau, which would work in both systems fairly well!

Although I haven't fought against farsight enclaves yet, I imagine they'd be awesome in maelstrom of war because of their mobility.

Like some other posters mentioned, 7th is still a shooty edition and tau are shooty good!

Sorry to hijack thread but could also be of interest to OP.

What strategies are there for Tau <vs> Necron in 7th? (in general).

The Necrons have so much AV13 (until penetrated) that I've been finding it difficult to think of ways to take them all out, let alone the CCB

There are no tactics. They just lose, only question is how much and how fast. Without eldar ally and buffmanders joined to riptides tau are maybe on skyblight nid tier. And that is if they don't play against necron, eldar or psychic heavy lists.

That is going to make games against my mate difficult. He's just got his Necron army finished up with CCB, C'tan, Monolith and lots of AV13 (until penetrated). I've no idea what I can do against all of that.

Whoever thinks Tau are OP in this edition need to either adjust their tactics or lists, they took a pretty decent hit with the new 7th edition changes and I would rank them as a Mid Tier army. As mentioned Tau Vehicles got a big boost and I am expecting several "Fish of Fury" lists to make a comeback and Fire Warriors with EMP Grenades are pretty nasty in assault to (watched two squads assault and take down an Imperial Knight, the Knight player did not expect the Fire Warriors to assault him! lol). Other then that the Farsight Enclaves list is decently strong as well, taking lots of Crisis Suits as troops can bring a lot of Firepower to the table, but it has the big drawback of only being T4 models and not very many bodies.

 gmaleron wrote:
Whoever thinks Tau are OP in this edition need to either adjust their tactics or lists, they took a pretty decent hit with the new 7th edition changes and I would rank them as a Mid Tier army. As mentioned Tau Vehicles got a big boost and I am expecting several "Fish of Fury" lists to make a comeback and Fire Warriors with EMP Grenades are pretty nasty in assault to (watched two squads assault and take down an Imperial Knight, the Knight player did not expect the Fire Warriors to assault him! lol). Other then that the Farsight Enclaves list is decently strong as well, taking lots of Crisis Suits as troops can bring a lot of Firepower to the table, but it has the big drawback of only being T4 models and not very many bodies.

As a very seasoned tau player (i.e. I knew how to play before taudar) this sums it up well.

They still have some of their traditional weaknesses and have lost a few things from the old books - the new codex seems to favor a more static tau, unfortunately.

The biggest challenge they have compared to other armies in 7th is a lack of strong mobility - in the new edition, the ability to quickly get to different objectives is key - and tau have very few fast vehicles (very few...as in like, one) - its not just about killing the enemy, its about outscoring them each turn. Tau don't have fast transports, jet bikes, deepstriking troops (except farsight) or highly mobile tanks (the riptide helps).

Overall they will do fine, welcome back, and let us know if you have any specific questions....

#Thread hijacking

Along the line of the thread.
I was hoping to discuss Tau strengths and weaknesses in 7th specifically unit wise.

I think i'm still in the mind set of 6th so I would like advice to help 'get with the program'.

Firewarriors - are still good for what they are but now 'need' to have a devilfish to make them more useful. Is it worth EMP grenades? I'm running 10 man squads (100 points with shas) should I up to 12?
Kroot - are about the same. I don't personally care about sniper rounds but i understand their uses. i run 15 with a hound. 110points.
Ethereals - should probably go with firewarriors in devilfish and go crazy with triple-tapping when they jump out (the go to HQ IMO).
Broadsides - seems to be more of a hindrance now with limited movement and stuff. Maybe i'm missing something good about them sitting in place. ~220 points for the squad.
Devilfish - seem to be almost mandatory but should be kept stock to make them as cheap as possible (not sold on d-pods but might be missing something).
Piranha - are pretty solid either load out. I prefer the fusion set up whilst using the drones as a squad.
Vespid - might be useful for getting around quickly (but i haven't tried them).
Crisis suits - go big or go home (IMO). Take 2 of the weapon unless you need them to operate away from markers.
Hammerhead - keep the gun drones (IMO) it can move 6" every turn and shoot at full affect with the big gun. SMS loses a little this way but not drastically.
Skyray - I think it's a liability because it wants to sit still (silly vehicle rules).
Sniper drones - I like them, i think they're underrated but dont expect miracles.
RIptide - still as good, just don't go charging into assault any more.
Stealth teams - are useful and under utilised but not 'the best unit'.
Fireblade - avoid in my opinion too static.

Farsight - is great but eats points because of the mandatory team.
Shadowsun - is a good HQ choice, should (IMO) be run with 2 crisis suits one with iridium armour to make majority toughness 5.
Darkstrider - seems good, not used him.
Avoid other named HQs.

Obviously these are just some of my thoughts. I dont mind discussing them or being corrected if i've missed something.

Kahor wrote:
That is going to make games against my mate difficult. He's just got his Necron army finished up with CCB, C'tan, Monolith and lots of AV13 (until penetrated). I've no idea what I can do against all of that.

It's ok, we can expect the nerf bat come their next codex, which is looming

Tau are fine in 7th.

The newest codex gave tau a lot of new strengths but unfortunately (for older tau players) lost many as well.

The biggest change for 7th is that tau lost the "boost" that many armies could get with battlebrothers with psychic armies.
Personally, I thought the loss of this was a good thing - as the stronger a force is, the more is supports sloppy play.

The biggest changes in 7th (from sixth) are;
* loss of eldar battlebrothers allies (good riddance)
* devil fish are now durable objective secured units
* jink - amazing change - now we can keep our hammerheads and skyrays stationary to maximize firepower and still jink.

One of the strengths of the tau codex, is that while it does indeed have some subpar units, overall it has enough good ones that the book can support a lot of different builds.

This also means that some of the value of the units can be quite subjective - for example, I get a huge amount of value out of the skyray.

For a returning player the biggest differences are that Tau (from the 5th ed book) overall are inclined to be less mobile - from the los of vehicle multitrackers to all the radius based buffs, overall the army plays very differently.

For example, while Boniface feels that skyrays and broadsides don't add a lot value to his lists, others find them essential - and each would be right, as it suits their style.

I can say the biggest strength of tau is this:
* the ability to have massive focus fire -
Due to a combo or range and weight of fire, tau can put a lot of firepower in many different places on the board.

Everyone knows that shooting is powerful in this edition for any army, but it can be a very powerful asset when used well.

In regarding Necrons, they are indeed a challenge, but honestly, the biggest challenge I have seen in dealing with them is players not realizing their weaknesses.

One for example, is the resurrection mechanic - its amazing, but its also very expensive and the necron units pay quite the tax for it. By simply focus firing and not leaving partial squads, a player can strip away this expensive benefit.

I have seen time and time again, players killing a few models from several squads, just to have them get back up. If they would have focused on the most threatening squad - they could have killed it off the table.

Now, of course, you cant kill every unit in one go all the time - but of any army out there capable of focus fire - the range of many tau weapons makes them very capable of it.
This takes being calm and focused in a game, and a lot of tactical discipline.
(although with the new missions in 7th, killing units is not as critical as it used to be).

A lot of tau tactics depend on adapting to your play style, and what you have to face in the local meta.

For example, if you are having problems with big CC units you can't seem to kill, putting anushi into a squad of 30 kroot (hounds and kroot) is an amazing tarpit unit. Will it win combat against a wraithknight? No, but it might tie him up for 3 turns, and that might be good enough.

Do you need to kill the necron lords buried in squads?
Sniper drones at half range offer more chances at precision shots, and putting the precision shot upgrade on a crisis suit with high volume fire is a good tactic as well.

Are there are lot of flyers in your area? Put skyfire upgrades either on broadsides, riptides or even crisis teams with missile pods - or go for skyrays (an amazing force multiplier) or possibly even tau flyers (seem like crap, but just how many flyers in the game have turrets....they are incredibly versitile).

I would probably say that Tau's biggest weakness in 7th is being unable to deal with psykers. Invisible death stars are rough, and if you want eldar psykers they now cannot even attempt to buff your stuff and becomes quite the point sink for pretty much acting as dispell die. They still shoot hard but I am fairly certain a good number of things will just mow down the Tau.

 gmaleron wrote:
Whoever thinks Tau are OP in this edition need to either adjust their tactics or lists, they took a pretty decent hit with the new 7th edition changes and I would rank them as a Mid Tier army. As mentioned Tau Vehicles got a big boost and I am expecting several "Fish of Fury" lists to make a comeback and Fire Warriors with EMP Grenades are pretty nasty in assault to (watched two squads assault and take down an Imperial Knight, the Knight player did not expect the Fire Warriors to assault him! lol). Other then that the Farsight Enclaves list is decently strong as well, taking lots of Crisis Suits as troops can bring a lot of Firepower to the table, but it has the big drawback of only being T4 models and not very many bodies.

Pretty much spot on.

Tau are not op, by any means. The only reason people THINK theyre op is because you have to face them differently than other races. You use the same exact list you go against space marines with you are going to get flattened because Tau have on average much better range and power than marines, not to mention the ease of access to ignores cover. Nobody ever tries to hide important units out of sight for a turn or two, they always go "Gotta use it now before it dies!" - this is why they fire ONCE and then die, because we ignore cover and kill it instantly. Tie my guns up, kill my tanks or clear off a crisis suit team, then bring that big sucker out and odds are i cant deal with it without some crazy luck. If i still have markerlights by turn 3, you are doing something wrong.

Psyker phase is rough as hell for us. The new deny the witch rules are pretty much impossible to utilize without your own psykers, even with the talisman we only get the initial D6 warps and we have to equal or exceeed the warps you harnessed to stop the spell, rather than simply nullify enough to prevent a WP2/3 spell from going off because now only 1/2 warps are still harnessed... which would MAKE SENSE

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
I've heard of Tau getting stomped hard by Necrons and Eldar so far, but I have yet to see that for myself so take that as you will.

Well yeah, forcing Jink saves with standard weapons, plus the CCB. Tau aren't as scary as they once were...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nem wrote:

Kahor wrote:
That is going to make games against my mate difficult. He's just got his Necron army finished up with CCB, C'tan, Monolith and lots of AV13 (until penetrated). I've no idea what I can do against all of that.

It's ok, we can expect the nerf bat come their next codex, which is looming

Better damn well not nerf bat us, there's no need to. Nerf us and we'll basically be useless. Change the CCB, sure. We don't need any nerfing though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kahor wrote:
Sorry to hijack thread but could also be of interest to OP.

What strategies are there for Tau <vs> Necron in 7th? (in general).

The Necrons have so much AV13 (until penetrated) that I've been finding it difficult to think of ways to take them all out, let alone the CCB

The only Tau list I refuse to eve play against, is a crap ton of markerlights and at least 2 Railguns. Necron players cannot, I mean literally CANNOT do anything against that.

Meh i wouldnt worry about necrons getting the nerfbat because theyre having a time of glory. GW doesnt balance based on whats going on, the new ork dex clearly proving this as killakans, burnas, and deffrolla got nerfed even though they either werent used or werent that awesome anyway.

New necron dex, when it comes, will nerf things and buff things like every dex does. Guarantee it wont be anything strong that doesnt scream OP like old Tau broadsides lol. By that point, we might be in 8th as i doubt necrons will get a new dex anytime soon and the chariot rules might change again, as thats the only thing that screams too strong to me in necron lists.

Oh gawd, they might nerf Flayed Ones even more? NOOOOOOO. I want a reason to use them. >.<

Well, Tau aren't as strong as they were in 6th.

BAO results are in, only two solid finishers, 4th and 23rd. Other finishers were solidly middle of the Pack and average will likely put them dead middle.

SM, Eldar, Necron, are definitely ahead of the Tau, maybe some others will shake out as well but well need more data for that.

As a person who plays necrons and tau, both armies are fine.

Both have great strengths, and weaknesses - although many players go head to head with their strengths instead of exploiting their weaknesses.

The reasons tau have fallen in the ranks are;
* Lack of eldar (or other psyker) allies to prop them up
* most of the people who jumped on the new tau when they came out may not have really learned the army well, and now are struggling.

Other than knight titans and wave serpent spam, I find the other player to be the biggest challenge - not their list (a player of equal skill with eldar - THAT is a brutal game).

Play tau, learn them, play against them - they are awesome and have cool models.

best ofl uck.

Tau aren't broken, but they changed in seventh. For one, killing vehicles via railgun isn't as likely, but it is so much more likely than other weapons it is actually worth taking. Dito for heavy rail rifles, though missile broadsides are powerful in their own right. A lot of people have had problems with mobility, but I haven't felt it. If my units are holding still, it is because they don't want to give up the cover they have yet. One thing people need to remember is to put fire warriors in transports. The two units work well together and can synergize to eliminate both vehicle and non-vehicle threats. Devilfish also allow for rapid redeployment of troops, and can jink to provide a massive buff to survivability. The riptide is reeling after the edition change, being now only a great model and not insanely broken. Our forces aren't as mobile as some armies, but nothing dakkas like Tau. Also, don't be afraid to move broadsides, especially if they have missile drones. Don't do it when you have a clear target and good cover, but if you have a shot of opportunity take it. Oh, and markerlight things. Markerlights end up being less broken given the difficulty of getting them the list and keeping them alive, but if left unchecked can turn a good army into OH SWEET JESUS BS5 OVERWATCH!

Shooting is still stronger than assault. Tau are arguably the best at shooting. They ignore cover, don't need LoS, and have cross-table range. Their alpha strike is capable of ending games at the top of turn one. Anyone that says their cheese lists ended when 7th edition arrived.. triple riptide and castled up gunlines are still cheese. I despise Tau netlisters more than anything else in the hobby.

 Zagman wrote:
Well, Tau aren't as strong as they were in 6th.

BAO results are in, only two solid finishers, 4th and 23rd. Other finishers were solidly middle of the Pack and average will likely put them dead middle.

SM, Eldar, Necron, are definitely ahead of the Tau, maybe some others will shake out as well but well need more data for that.

The results were pretty lulzy.

For those who don't know, the top ten consisted of 4 Space Marine primaries, with SM / Knights in first place and Space Marines with no allies taking second (lol wut). Beyond that there were only three Deldar Primaries (2 Deldar, one Eldau), one Tau primary and two Necron primaries.

A Daemon primary doesn't show up until 23rd place.