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I'm interested in giving Malifaux a try, given the extremely small model count and lack of much in the way of extraneous tokens and dice and whatnot.

I've been looking at grabbing the 2nd edition rulebook and two crews. Are the crew starters relatively balanced? I was considering grabbing two to paint up and use as demo crews for my friends to get them into it. Looking at the Mother of Monsters and Shadows of Redchapel starters, specfically.

Finally - what are the Terraclips sets like? My FLGS stocks these as well, and they look like a relatively easy way to get a good board set up with minimal fuss.

I've found most of the crews balanced, though obviously some will be easier to learn than others. The only I wouldn't recommend is Lady Justice: while she's a very straightforward master, her Death Marshals just aren't good in large numbers, in my opinion.

I've played against lilith and as seamus, and expect they'd be a pretty good match against each other, though I'm not sure how much lilith relies on getting the other nephilim (young and mature) boxed set for souping up the guys she starts with.

Terraclips are good from everything I've heard, but you'll want about 2-3 packs to make a dense board, unless you're just sticking some buildings on another board.

edit: oh, also, sonnia and offensive spellcasters (like rasputina) tend towards bad first games, regardless of balance, so I'd avoid that.

I would have said steer clear of Perdita and her crew as a starter box to get people into the game, the amount of gun they have can be overwhelming for a new player (at least I found it so). But then, that could have just been me.

Well, the two starters I'm looking at are Lilith and Saemus.

edit - also, what board size and terrain density does Malifaux work with?

 -Loki- wrote:
Well, the two starters I'm looking at are Lilith and Saemus.

edit - also, what board size and terrain density does Malifaux work with?

My local store plays on a 3x3 with a lot of success, and the terrain we use is nowhere near Infinity levels, we use at least 25%, probably closer to 35/40%. It seems to be a really good amount, because fast crews still have avenues to be fast down, but crews that want to use terrain to hide/do whatever in have the opportunity to do that as well.

I was looking at grabbing a few buildings from here if terraclips doesn't pan out. The church, the carriage house, and a few village houses. Maybe forgo the carriage house and just have a bunch of village houses. Would that be sufficient on a 3x3?

What about scatter terrain? I know Infinity uses a lot. How about this game?

I use quite a bit of scatter terrain, to break up the space in between buildings. I only use 4 buildings though but it seems to be enough for our games. I would Always place some scatter scenery, doesn't have to be completely los blocking but at least grant some cover. Just so models won't have to be wide in the open if the want to cross the table.

Ofcourse it also depends on what crews you play with/against. If both are pure melee crews scatter scenery mostly becomes important to block charges etc and might need to be a bit different compared to when you're running up against Ortega's. Likewise, some crews (Kirai most notably) get a huge advantage the more scenery is on the table as most of the crew can ignore that with movement.

All in all though, you can get by with less scenery than in Infinity

I'd echo what others have said, terrain is good, esp. if one side is better at shooting. There's a nice little key somewhere on the Wyrd forum that suggests rough proportions of terrain. I'll see if I can find it.

How much is there in the way of options for expanding a crew?

Looking at what's available for Neverborn, there's a lot of stuff that differs from the starters. For example, Liliths Mother of Monsters starter has types of Nephilim, which you can expand with the Nephilim box with 2 Young and 1 Mature Naphilim. But then there's also boxes available of things like Beckoners, Marionettes, all sorts of monsters and demons (oh how I love Teddy!). But they all seem like they fit one masters theme - Nephilim with Lilith, ghosts with Pandora, etc. Is there room to mix, like use Teddy with Lilith, or Terror Tots with Pandora?

 -Loki- wrote:
How much is there in the way of options for expanding a crew?

Looking at what's available for Neverborn, there's a lot of stuff that differs from the starters. For example, Liliths Mother of Monsters starter has types of Nephilim, which you can expand with the Nephilim box with 2 Young and 1 Mature Naphilim. But then there's also boxes available of things like Beckoners, Marionettes, all sorts of monsters and demons (oh how I love Teddy!). But they all seem like they fit one masters theme - Nephilim with Lilith, ghosts with Pandora, etc. Is there room to mix, like use Teddy with Lilith, or Terror Tots with Pandora?

Some models go better with one master over another, but most work well with any member of a faction (the Guild is the best with this).

Terror Tots work especially well in Lillith Crews, but are very fast scheme handlers for other crews (personally, I'm considering running them with Lucius, to create a new version of the Growth list, which involves feeding Terror Tots while Lillith or Barbaros (whomever you give the Rapid Growth Upgrade) to turn them into nastier nephilim.

Teddies are great with most crews. They hit very hard (they have special synergies with Baby Kade and the Dreamer, who can summon one, though it is very difficult). If you want to rip something apart, a Teddy is a great option.

Beckoners are especially good with Jakob Lynch, because they spread his drug (Brilliance), but are a fantastic way to draw enemy models in (Rotten Belles do this too).

In Malifaux, you don't have a preset list like 40k. You get to see how the table is set up and what schemes you are going to take first, then you build a crew that best meets the criteria for the job.

If you get Lillith, I highly recommend at least 1 Nephilim box, then consider a Black Blood Shaman, Tuco, Nekima, or any model you like.

With Seamus, I recommend another set of Rotten Belles, as Seamus can summon more of them, if I recall correctly, a Bete Noire, Hanged, a Dead Doxy, Canine Remains, and maybe Punk Zombies.

Awesome. My first box to expand Lilith was definitely going to be a Nephilim box (the growth list sounds like my kind of fun) but I really wanted to use Teddy and maybe the Beckoners. Glad to know I can!

Though I'll eventually be grabbing one of each of the starter packs. Pandora sounds super fun - from what others have said, her thing is controlling enemy movement and punishing enemy actions, which sounds a lot like a Guild Wars Mesmer. And the Dark Debts box is just packed with fun looking stuff.

Saemus is something I'm reconsidering. It looks like I might not need two crews to start, since my brother is interested in starting with Ten Thunders, so I shouldn't need to coax people in. If I do, I'll just let someone else use another of my Neverborn crews.

Pandora is a lot less straightforward to play, but she is very neat.

She will kill off opposing models by making them claw themselves.

Yeah, sounds a lot like a Guild Wars Mesmer.

Though I've also heard she's not great to use against new players, as if you don't know how to deal with her it can be pretty rough.

 -Loki- wrote:
Yeah, sounds a lot like a Guild Wars Mesmer.

Though I've also heard she's not great to use against new players, as if you don't know how to deal with her it can be pretty rough.

Neverborn are a trickier faction than say, the Guild, for most new players, but if you like them the most, get them. Lillith is probably the easiest master to play from the faction, because she is relatively straightfoward (not as straightforward as Lady Justice, but it's a decent comparison).

I'm more concerned about the person on the other side. If Pandora is going to just make it unfun until they learn to deal with it, I'd rather avoid it until we're better at the game.

Well, she's not that bad (the strongest Neverborn master on the competitive scene is currently Jakob Lynch, from what I've seen).

You could just pick the 2 starter crews you think are the coolest and be set. Beginner games are probably going to revolve around those sets anyway.

For example, I picked up Lady Justice (after a very long debate between Her, Lynch, and Ramos), then Perdita Ortega due to the efficiency of the crew and that I can use the individual members in other crews. To flesh out my collection, I picked up Guild Riflemen and a Peacekeeper because they look awesome, then realized that if I had some Guild Guard, I'd have a nice Lucius crew. Therefore, I picked up a pack of metal Guild Guard (and an hour later, the plastic ones were announced *facepalm) and Lucius. Most recently, I noticed that my crews could use a Witchling Stalker or two (to remove the Paralyzed condition) and I read up on Sonnia. Her crew should be here tomorrow.

See that's kind of what I want to avoid here. I got into Infinity because it had a small model count and now I have a backlog of Infinity bigger than my Tyranid backlog (not even kidding).

So here I'm hoping to pick up the Mother of Monsters set, paint it, play some games, grab the Nephilim set, paint them, grab Teddy, paint him, then probably pick up Pandora.

What I don't want with Malifaux is a backlog. But it looks like it's a game that scales really well, so I should be able to have fun with just the starter while I get it painted.

I imagine you will. I've only played a couple of games (Lady J starter vs Sonnia starter) and they've both been close and fun. I look forward to adding in more models, but it works fine even at 30-ish points you get in a starter.

Ten thunders is a really good gateway if you want to expand collections or share them, since there's such a heavy overlap with other factions- part of what makes Malifaux both appealing and potentially dangerous to collect is how much stuff can be used across factions, meaning it's often very easy to break into one from another.

Do you find yourself needing extra Peon level models (like the Terror Tots or Sorrows)? I see they're available to buy separately, while the Henchman and up units from the starters stay exclusive to them.

 -Loki- wrote:
Do you find yourself needing extra Peon level models (like the Terror Tots or Sorrows)? I see they're available to buy separately, while the Henchman and up units from the starters stay exclusive to them.

It depends on the master and the player.

Som'er Teeth Jones? You're probably going to want a LOT of Bayou Gremlins. Ophelia? Probaby just a pack.

Death Marshals? You'll rarely use all 3. Witchling Stalkers? Get more if you want to play summoner Sonnia.

With Neverborn, you might want more Terror Tots, but it's not necessary in my opinion. The same goes for Pandora's sorrows.

Awesome. i've been spoiled by Infinity not requiring me to buy repeats of minis unless I specifically want to. Good to know it'll continue.

Yep, I'm pretty sure that the only time I've gotten a second set of basic guys that were in a boxed set was when I was getting alt sculpts or LE minis. Outside of a few spamming groups, you'll very rarely need more than the 2-3 they come with, and it'd be pretty easy to avoid masters that rely on spamming.

 -Loki- wrote:
Awesome. i've been spoiled by Infinity not requiring me to buy repeats of minis unless I specifically want to. Good to know it'll continue.

Off of the top of my head, the only masters that require tons of the same model are Ramos (steampunk arachnids), Som'er (Bayou Gremlins, possibly), and possibly Nicodem, but most people have very varied summoning selections with him.

Sonnia if you're stomping or already start with some witchlings, Hamelin (but it's easy to find generic rat models).

Welp, in we've plunged. 2nd edition rulebook and Mother of Monsters ordered last night. My brother is watching an ebay listing for The Thunder and an archer pack.

First impressions - rules look fun. The opposed duels give me a 'fantasy Infinity' vibe, which is a great thing. I like the card mechanics a lot.

Models, wow. Detail seems about average for plastics (I wasn't super impressed because I've spent the last year and a half looking exclusively at Infinity metals) but definitely look like they'll paint up well. The posing they've acheived with these are great for plastic though, very dynamic and energetic. Quality is excellent too, almost no mold lines, and those I saw were very minimal and easy to remove.

Hopefully I'll get a game in this weekend.

Cool, yep, the dynamic posing and card mechanics are probably the highlights of the game.

I got my first game in the week before last with my Lady Justice crew and I had a blast! The game is very objective orientated, of course killing your opponents guys means he can't complete his or thwart your objectives. A very fun game!

My FLGS got its restock in, so I'll be snatching up a Teddy before they sell out again.

I should be having my first game this weekend, so I can't wait.