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I was wondering if anyone knew if BF was planning to add China to it's available forces anytime soon. I know that the new Japanese models have been selling well, and it would make sense to expand the Pacific Front market to give Japanese players another historically accurate opponent to fight.

Is there anything in the works, or is it too early to start planning?

I was reading a battle report where it was china vs Japan. I looked at it for the Japanese stuff and they had rules for China up there. They where pretty cool rules for them too.

But I would say yes its a bit early unless you know people who wouldnt mind made up rules.

Although when japan came out BF suggested lists that would work well with the chinese along with models. I will have to dig some info up for you when I get home.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here, from their site.

Chinese forces ranged in quality from dedicated revolutionaries to conscripted peasants handed a gun that day (if they were lucky), leaving the creative gamer plenty of scope to improvise. A lot of the Nationalist Chinese forces had older German equipment, so you can use Hungarian models. You may like to try using the Italian Battaglione Fucilieri Intelligence Briefing from Burning Empires as a starting point, taking advantage of the variable ratings of the 8 Million Bayonets rule or you could use the Soviet Strelkovy Batalon from Rising Sun to represent the Chinese. There are
a number of interesting Osprey books on the conflict in China to guide you on your way.

Thanks for all the help Swastakowey I'll start working on making a proxie force.

Chinese models http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_102_109_684&sort=3a

No problem. I couldnt find the battle report that had brief Chinese rules but since that was on the BF site I think it has more credibility if you needed to convince someone to play.

@kenny
Thans Kenny! I was searching around and found that eureka seems to be the only manufacture that has 15mm Chinese forces. However, I'm a bit worried about their quality. Some of the models look pretty rough (in the spoilers):
Will that be noticeable on the 15mm scale? For the price, I'm pretty tempted. But a couple of the sculpts are just look awful in those pictures.

@swastakowey
I found the link that you mentioned http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4112

I personally would just find a range of models from BF that matches is size etc and buy a bunch of models from a bunch of nations (infantry wise) and mix them up to create a mix match force of guys with random weapons etc.

Thats just me though.

I've been thinking about what I want to use, and I will give eureka a try. Depending on shipping, I will order a small bunch to see how their stuff looks in person. If it looks good, I will get enough for a small force. If not, I'm going to try out swastakowey's idea of mixing and matching units.

As for tanks, I may have to scratch build some stuff. I guess I'll just take a stab at that once I get there.

Also, would it be worth making a P&M blog for this army once I start it? I don't know if there's a big interest in a WIP army blog for FoW.

 Freytag93 wrote:
I've been thinking about what I want to use, and I will give eureka a try. Depending on shipping, I will order a small bunch to see how their stuff looks in person. If it looks good, I will get enough for a small force. If not, I'm going to try out swastakowey's idea of mixing and matching units.

As for tanks, I may have to scratch build some stuff. I guess I'll just take a stab at that once I get there.

Also, would it be worth making a P&M blog for this army once I start it? I don't know if there's a big interest in a WIP army blog for FoW.

I dont know about dakka blogs, but actual blogs you may find interest. I know I like seeing FoW blogs, especially ones that are early war or do a mix of forces and periods.

Its also a lot of fun blogging.

This thread is very relevant to my interests.

Super keen on some human wave shenanigans, and that Italian list would be sweet for representing Chinese forces

I was watching some documentaries and yea that Italian list would be perfect. Sometimes the Chinese would surrender in mass, other times they would fight hard etc.

It was very cool of BF to put that suggestion there.

Just ordered for eureka! Hopefully most of the sculpts are good.

Guess it's time to start digging into some documentaries and books

Here you go merry xmas,has a few of the experimental rules.
http://www.wwpd.net/2014/05/japanese-infantry-vs-chinese-infantry.html

 col. krazy kenny wrote:
Here you go merry xmas,has a few of the experimental rules.
http://www.wwpd.net/2014/05/japanese-infantry-vs-chinese-infantry.html

That was the non BF link I was trying to find.

Although I prefer the Italian idea personally.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 col. krazy kenny wrote:
Here you go merry xmas,has a few of the experimental rules.
http://www.wwpd.net/2014/05/japanese-infantry-vs-chinese-infantry.html

That was the non BF link I was trying to find.

Although I prefer the Italian idea personally.

Thanks for the link! Here are my ideas on the rules they used:

Chinese National Rules
Tanks have Hen & Chicks (Sure, no problems with this)
British Bulldog vs Japanese (I forgot what this rule is, and I haven't played against the British a lot. I'll have to look it up to see if it makes sense)
Hit on 3+ in assaults (Why? They didn't really explain why they made this rule. I will probably drop this one unless I can figure out a good explanation why they should always hit on 3+)
When launching an assault, the first hit MUST be taken on the highest commanding officer. If the officer survives, the assault successfully makes it in, regardless of number of hits taken. If the commander dies, the assault fails and the platoon is pinned, regardless of number of hits taken. (Very interesting rule that adds a lot of character to the army. I'll have to try it out in games to see if it's balanced)

I like most the nation rules that they used for the mission. I think combining them with the 8 million bayonets would make for a pretty interesting and accurate force.

As a random question, do the early war Italian forces have rifle platoons? Based on my reading, even the nationalist central army divisions (who were the most well supplied) only had one lmg per platoon.
I think that the regular platoons would be best represented by rifle platoons with the assault rule mentioned about and the 8 million bayonets rule to represent the varied training and motivation within the army.

Also did some research and found what kinds of tanks the central army had at the beginning of the war. I'll probably be making a PSC purchase pretty soon once I get this army up and running.
A couple Panz I's and T-26's would put some backbone in this army.

Aside from the hens and chicks rule, I feel those rules make the chinese out to be too elite. They are as good as japs in assault with an odd method of getting into assault.

 Freytag93 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 col. krazy kenny wrote:
Here you go merry xmas,has a few of the experimental rules.
http://www.wwpd.net/2014/05/japanese-infantry-vs-chinese-infantry.html

That was the non BF link I was trying to find.

Although I prefer the Italian idea personally.

Thanks for the link! Here are my ideas on the rules they used:

Chinese National Rules
Tanks have Hen & Chicks (Sure, no problems with this)
British Bulldog vs Japanese (I forgot what this rule is, and I haven't played against the British a lot. I'll have to look it up to see if it makes sense)
Hit on 3+ in assaults (Why? They didn't really explain why they made this rule. I will probably drop this one unless I can figure out a good explanation why they should always hit on 3+)
When launching an assault, the first hit MUST be taken on the highest commanding officer. If the officer survives, the assault successfully makes it in, regardless of number of hits taken. If the commander dies, the assault fails and the platoon is pinned, regardless of number of hits taken. (Very interesting rule that adds a lot of character to the army. I'll have to try it out in games to see if it's balanced)

I like most the nation rules that they used for the mission. I think combining them with the 8 million bayonets would make for a pretty interesting and accurate force.

As a random question, do the early war Italian forces have rifle platoons? Based on my reading, even the nationalist central army divisions (who were the most well supplied) only had one lmg per platoon.
I think that the regular platoons would be best represented by rifle platoons with the assault rule mentioned about and the 8 million bayonets rule to represent the varied training and motivation within the army.

Also did some research and found what kinds of tanks the central army had at the beginning of the war. I'll probably be making a PSC purchase pretty soon once I get this army up and running.
A couple Panz I's and T-26's would put some backbone in this army.

The Ew and some MW Italians have them as a regiment.So where the it states company use regiment,when it says plattoon use company.This rule is used alot in the whole meat shield ,cannon fodder tactic.
Here is what i pulled from my Burning empires book.
Page 18 has the Italian Infantry at,3 platoons(company) costing 255 for fucilieri,290 blk shirt, Alpine 305
it contains,8 stands per platoon,4 per squad.so a full companies is 24 s tands with Hq and weapons section.
As for rules i would stick with the 8 million bayonet rule and British Bulldog when fighting Jap. Kinda a Revenge thing for the rape of nanking.

I would suggest looking at what Chinese army you wish to field. Id also suggest a book or two to delve into, to get past the stereotypical myths often associated with Chinese forces of the period.

Huge variety of troops and equipment fielded in China.

If you only buy one book, buy 'Soldiers of the White Sun' by Philip Jowlett. Best work in English, massively illustrated with photos of the period.

Thanks for all the help guys

@kenny - Thanks for the numbers. I am going to buy the burning empires book on easy army so that I can have access to all the stats and rules and play around with the list building.
I can see where you're coming from with the British bulldog rule against the Japanese. I'll have to test it in some games to make sure it isn't too much.

@Big P - I actually have "Soldiers of the White Sun" ordered through amazon already
My plan is to field a central army division, though not one of the German trained divisions who fought at Shanghai. I've been doing some research on these divisions, and - other than the German divisions - they were the most well equipped. However, that isn't saying much when compared to the other armies of the time, and they still had a wide variety in training.

I will continue my research before I get in too deep. I will also make sure I link my blog to this post once the army finally gets started. Hopefully the eureka minis get here next week.

I've been working on national rules and how to build a Central Army Battalion. I may eventually expand to include German trained divisions, militia divisions, tank divisions, warlord divisions, and communist divisions. But before I get ahead of myself, here's my set up so far:
Nation Rules:

8 Million Bayonets (1 = RC, 2-4 = RT, 5 = CC, 6 = CT)
Hen & Chicks
British Bulldog vs Japanese (allows any company to re-roll motivation tests to counter-attack in an assault)
When launching an assault, the first hit MUST be taken on the highest commanding officer. If the officer survives, the assault successfully makes it in, regardless of number of hits taken. If the commander dies, the assault fails and the platoon is pinned, regardless of number of hits taken.

Central Army Rifle Battalion (11th)
Mandatory
HQ and 2 infantry companies (Each company has platoons of 6 teams)
Combat Platoons
An additional infantry company
Weapons Platoons
Machine-gun platoon (MG 34s)
Mortar platoon (81mm motor teams)
Regimental Support
Regimental motor company (81mm motor teams)
Small artillery company (Boys anti-tank rifles)
Recon company
Divisional Support
Anti-tank gun platoon (3.7cm PaK3)
Armor (Panzer I platoon/ Light Tankovy company)
Artillery (Light artillery battery (76mm obr 1927)/ Heavy artillery battery (15cm sFH18))
Anti-aircraft gun company (20/65 on 3-ton truck)

Most of this is set up based on the reorganized division explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German-trained_divisions_of_the_National_Revolutionary_Army

What do y'all think? I've picked units from Italians, German, Finnish, and Soviet lists to best reflect weaponry and/or rules. The idea is that the majority of this army will be rifle teams, backed-up by a few support weapons and minimal tanks/artillery.

i found a fow chinese list. it from the a yahoo group. pm me if interested i can send it or upload here.

Please post it Kenny!

Here you go,A little old skool style though.

Thanks Kenny.

Definitely some interesting ideas. They chose not to use company sized forces like Soviet and Italian forces. The national rules are pretty cool too.