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Hello everyone, planning a deliciously violent and cruel eldar force and would appreciate some input before parting with any money!

I love the idea of a mobile gunline and I hear this is what Dark Eldar are all about currently. I am looking to do a bit of venom spam backed up with ravagers along with some choices for purely aesthetic reasons - reavers and voidraven bomber.

HQ
Archon - blaster 95

Elites
Trueborn w/ Blaster x4
Venom, Nightshield, 2xSC 183

Troops
Kabalite Warrior x5, blaster
Venom, Nightshield, 2xSC 135

Kabalite Warrior x5, blaster
Venom, Nightshield, 2xSC 135

Kabalite Warrior x5, blaster
Venom, Nightshield, 2xSC 135

Kabalite Warrior x10, blaster
Raider, Nightshield, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks 195

Fast Attack
6x Reavers
2x Heat lance 156

Heavy Support
Ravager
3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield 125

Ravager
3x Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield 125

Voidraven bomber
4x Shatterfield Missile, Flickerfield, Nightshield 205

Total: 1489


How solid does this look? I'll be buying the battleforce boxed set which has a squad of wyches in too, do they work well in a list like this? Thanks for any input.

I think it's a pretty good, versatile list. You've got lots of Darklight weapons, several Splinter Cannons and a Flyer with 2 Void Lances. Seems you've got all bases covered.

18 Dark Light weapons is OK but not spectacular for DE at 1500.

For me you've over spent on Nightshields and that 10 man unit. Whilst the Voidraven is never going to be worth 205 points given how easy it is to blow out of the sky by interceptor (for instance 3 Broadsides average 4 HPs on it).

Reavers just aren't worth it. Heat lances are weak and 2 melta shots has long odds to kill a vehicle whilst the change to jink has hurt them in any function other than bladevaning with Caltrops.

With DE at this point level you should be filling your troops choices or taking multiple detachments (you can fit in 25 DL shots doing the latter).

It's certainly a solid start but I would trim all the Nightshields except perhaps on the Ravagers, trim the Voidraven back to stock and the 10 man back to another 5 and the Reavers. That nets you 346 points enough to fill troops and get something else.

Talk about different outlooks, lol.

IMHO, Reavers work best Bladevaning with Cluster Caltrops. Move 12", Turbo-Boost to the other side of the map to grab a distant Objective and shred an enemy unit en route. Jink when shot at for a 3+ cover save.

I also think missiles on a Void Raven are a waste, to be honest. I'm not sure about the Night Shields, but I definitely would leave the Flickerfield on. AV 11 with a 5++ seems respectable for a Flyer.

Thanks for your input guys.

@FlingitNow: Reavers and the flyer I am aware are not the most competitive, I was hoping to compensate by keeping the rest of the list pretty solid. The flyer is beautiful. I think you are probably right about spending too much on vehicle wargear. I'll be starting with this purchase list and then as I catch up on painting I'll prune those superfluous points to be replaced with more troop units.

Any word on how competitive wyches are? I'll get a pack in the battle force boxed set but I don't necessarily want to use them. I think I have seen lists with them in venoms with haywire grenades - is that actually effective?

Wyches are CC tank hunters and Walker hunters. Even a Knight doesn't really want to fight them. A Shardnet is very useful too if you see lots of walkers in your meta, particularly Knights (one of the most common walkers seen competitively).

5 in a venom with Haywire and shardnet runs at 135 points. Against a Knight he gets just 2 attacks and on average 1 hit which you get a 4++ against. Meanwhile you're stripping 2 HPs a turn from him. Make sure you spread around his base as it's the stomps that will hurt you most. For 135 points it's a great way to finish off a Knight (or Landraider or Russ squadron) or bog one down whilst severely hurting it so you can deal with it later.

Though looking at your list as a whole I don't think the Battleforce is great for you. You seem to be taking stuff just because it is in the BF rather than writing your list and seeing if the BF is right for you. Once you take out the Wyches you're actually worse off than buying separately anyway (if memory serves me).

Also there is no Voidraven kit that I've seen so you'll have to convert something. Or take the Razorwing which is beautiful and comes with Missiles included in the points.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Wyches are CC tank hunters and Walker hunters. Even a Knight doesn't really want to fight them. A Shardnet is very useful too if you see lots of walkers in your meta, particularly Knights (one of the most common walkers seen competitively).

5 in a venom with Haywire and shardnet runs at 135 points. Against a Knight he gets just 2 attacks and on average 1 hit which you get a 4++ against. Meanwhile you're stripping 2 HPs a turn from him. Make sure you spread around his base as it's the stomps that will hurt you most. For 135 points it's a great way to finish off a Knight (or Landraider or Russ squadron) or bog one down whilst severely hurting it so you can deal with it later.

Though looking at your list as a whole I don't think the Battleforce is great for you. You seem to be taking stuff just because it is in the BF rather than writing your list and seeing if the BF is right for you. Once you take out the Wyches you're actually worse off than buying separately anyway (if memory serves me).

Also there is no Voidraven kit that I've seen so you'll have to convert something. Or take the Razorwing which is beautiful and comes with Missiles included in the points.

Everything in the battlebox matches up to the list I made first apart from the wyches which you pretty much get free with the discount you get from the box, you are right though it's touch and go whether it's worth it or not. I do play an iron hands opponent who likes his vehicles and dreads which may make them worthwhile by what you are saying they are used for.

I will just be taking the Razorwing and proxying as a Voidraven - my opponents are pretty relaxed as far as proxying things goes.

Heatlances on reavers are a waste because you'll be needing to jink.

Night shields are a waste. The 6 inches will almost never come into play.

Ravagers have a lot of trouble popping tanks now all things considered. If you're gonna rely on lance shots and blasters you'll need more.

Raiders are more efficient than venoms now, although I still use venoms because they're cool. We need a new codex.

Make dark lances ap1, fix the talos. Give our flyers vector dancer. Give us some dumb battle focus type rule like eldarts. Good things ahead

I personally run Dark Lance Raiders with Splinter Racks and 10-man Kabalite squads inside. It was a matter of preference back when I chose this approach, but it's good to hear that they might be the more efficient choice now!

raoiley wrote:
Heatlances on reavers are a waste because you'll be needing to jink.

Night shields are a waste. The 6 inches will almost never come into play.

Ravagers have a lot of trouble popping tanks now all things considered. If you're gonna rely on lance shots and blasters you'll need more.

Raiders are more efficient than venoms now, although I still use venoms because they're cool. We need a new codex.

Make dark lances ap1, fix the talos. Give our flyers vector dancer. Give us some dumb battle focus type rule like eldarts. Good things ahead

What would I use for popping tanks if I didn't use ravagers? Is there a large gap in 'efficiency' between venoms and raiders now? I'd prefer to use a mixture just from an army visual point of view. Thanks for your answer.

I think your list looks okay.

I would consider changing out the large squad in the raiders blaster for a splinter cannon that way the firing is more focused.

i also agree with dropping the heatlances on the reavers.

I would also consider dropping night shields on everything except the ravagers, many of the units you have it on will want to close in to get off blaster/splinter shots so you won't see much use it for it. If your area has a lot of basic infantry totting str 4 guns I would consider keeping it, but if its mostly people filling out 2 troops choices to get a bunch of uber units I wouldnt bother. Once you close in you will really only see it be useful for weapons that have 12-18" range as most models will be able to move and shoot you with the night shields if you are in range to fire with splinter rifles/blasters.


The voidraven....

The targets for the missiles and the void lances are totally different. I wouldn't bother buying this thing missiles if you want to use it. yes it can shoot up to 4 weapons a turn, but do you want to spend points on 1 shot weapons that are not going to match the target profile(high AV, or high toughness) of the void lances?

I think the voidravern is okay, its just not worth buying missiles for it. Out of curiosity what are you using for the model? Would love to see a pic.


If you drop the nightshields from venoms/raiders thats 50 pts saved, plus 24 from dropping heat lances and you have 11 shy from 1500 so you have 85 pts free if you drop the 4 missiles from the voidraven thats another 40 giving you 125 pts free.

you could pick up 5 wyches with haywire in a venom with 10 pts to spare

or 5 more reavers with 15pts to spare

use haywire for popping tanks. the void raven will probably help.

ravagers aren't twin linked so youll be lucky to hit lets say 2 out of 3 shots. then your average vehicle will probably need 3-5 to glance. so you might do 1 glance. then you hope the vehicle doesnt get cover.

if you DO pen it, the odds of it exploding are quite slim.

Ravs are cheap for the shots, but theyre also squishy. open topped, AV 11, they're still going to go down quick. if it takes three turns to have it shoot down something, you can assume it'll be dead before it happens.

I've started using Dissie Ravs instead... at least they pose a bigger threat to the targets they go afer... terms, centurians etc. i still dont use them often.

anything with haywire is going to murder vehicles. I've tried out 6 venoms full of wyches; it's been decent.

dark eldar will always get crushed when they get shot at. the good news is that things are cheap so you can take lots and lots of them. 6 squzads of wyches, you can assume probably 3 or 4 will be able to assault if you move flat out. then you can move the venom 6, disembark 6 and charge lets say 7 ish. thats an 18-19 ish threat range on turn 2 for an assault. 5 wyches with haywire will probably blow up any 3hp vehicle. and they only cost 60 points. plus, they score, the venom scores. the venom has dual splinter cannons and the 5++ so it doesn thave to jink.

if youre taking warriors, the raider will be more survivable with the extra hull point. but buy the flickerfield. 5++ is decent. night shields are utterly useless. if youre playing your army trying to stay out of that extra 6" range then youre not being aggressive enough for a dark eldar army.

the heatlances are good weapons if you can close, but theyre expensive and they're likely going to die. if you take the lances then you need to be jinking and moving hard on turn 1 and then expecting to get off a shot. but remember, you need to hit, then wound, then hope the vehicle has no cover or save. if you fail, then youre screwed. the wyches are far more reliable. the only thing that gives them a lot of trouble are the flame overwatch tanks that Militarum has now.

i agree with blaktoof on the raven missles. if youre taking lances then you want to kill tanks. the missles probably wont help too much.

the trick with all dark eldar is that you are fast, you can control the movement phase, but when you want to do damage youre going to have to get bold. target saturation is your key to staying alive.

1 raider gunboat will get blown up.
6 gets scary... odds are 4-5 will survive.

also, look at some Eldar allies.
consider... you can now put fire dragons in a venom for fly by destruction on tanks.

wraithknights are so strong they can still punch them open.
wave serpents are still survivable and shooty.