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So the new Space Wolf pictures look like there is an option to equip a Dread with a storm shield. That seems like something that every space marine army needs.
I love running Dreads, but notice that even in close combat, if you are fighting someone strong enough to hurt it, it doesn't take long for the thing to get "blowed up."

Do you think adding a 3++ to a Dreadnought will make them more viable in games? Even if it means giving up some of their shooting power?

I don't see why it wouldn't really. I'd just take for the looks though.

Contemptor Dreads come with built in invul saves, and while not a 3+ ive found that they really help.

Certainly it will make them more survivable. What remains to be seen is whether the cost is worth the increased resistance. Even if not, I'll be using one, as the shield is AP2! I don't care how nice it costs, I'm taking a Dread that can shield-bash Captain America style...

As Walkers get an extra attack for each weapon, it also makes it more dangerous in CC assuming you pair it with an axe (or claw?)

 Icculus wrote:


Do you think adding a 3++ to a Dreadnought will make them more viable in games? Even if it means giving up some of their shooting power?

What in the game does not become more viable with a 3++? O_o

 Icculus wrote:
So the new Space Wolf pictures look like there is an option to equip a Dread with a storm shield. That seems like something that every space marine army needs.
I love running Dreads, but notice that even in close combat, if you are fighting someone strong enough to hurt it, it doesn't take long for the thing to get "blowed up."

Do you think adding a 3++ to a Dreadnought will make them more viable in games? Even if it means giving up some of their shooting power?

I think it is really cool. With that said, unless venerable dreadnoughts get a significant stat change in their attacks, he is not going to be doing much. Assuming he gets to charge, and adding an attack for the shield since it has weapon stats(2 Base+1 two weapons+1 charge), he will need 4ish turns on average to kill a Space Marine tactical squad. That's ignoring morale checks of course, just speaking of damage output.

He probably won't die either(unless a single tactical squad shoots him in his no invuln Armor 10 back lol), but I'm not sure what his point is other than being an expensive tarpit.

He is cool looking though.

Looks like I am going to have go unbound just take a Space Wolf Dreadnought.

Have you seen if the shield arm still gets an underslung weapon? Cause if I could still stick the heavy flamer on that thing, then I think we would be in business.

I personally think its time that dreadnoughts can go toe-to-toe with MCs and FMCs. With the nerfs to smash and a 3++ save I could certainly see this dreadnought actually surviving a round of combat and maybe taking out big dudes.

 changerofways wrote:
I personally think its time that dreadnoughts can go toe-to-toe with MCs and FMCs. With the nerfs to smash and a 3++ save I could certainly see this dreadnought actually surviving a round of combat and maybe taking out big dudes.

These days only a few MCs have a high chance to kill a dreadnought before the dread strikes back. Majority of MCs are S6. Some might get armorbane, but like daemon princes? They are now horribly afraid of walkers. Base S6, T5? If you get lucky and your dude has armorbane, then yeah, the walker is probably screwed.

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
So the new Space Wolf pictures look like there is an option to equip a Dread with a storm shield. That seems like something that every space marine army needs.
I love running Dreads, but notice that even in close combat, if you are fighting someone strong enough to hurt it, it doesn't take long for the thing to get "blowed up."

Do you think adding a 3++ to a Dreadnought will make them more viable in games? Even if it means giving up some of their shooting power?

I think it is really cool. With that said, unless venerable dreadnoughts get a significant stat change in their attacks, he is not going to be doing much. Assuming he gets to charge, and adding an attack for the shield since it has weapon stats(2 Base+1 two weapons+1 charge), he will need 4ish turns on average to kill a Space Marine tactical squad. That's ignoring morale checks of course, just speaking of damage output.

He probably won't die either(unless a single tactical squad shoots him in his no invuln Armor 10 back lol), but I'm not sure what his point is other than being an expensive tarpit.

He is cool looking though.

you can't get +1 attack from storm shield. So just 3 attacks on the charge and 2 per round after.

Its not a storm shield, its a blizzard shield and has a weapon profile, so does add an attack.

blaktoof wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
So the new Space Wolf pictures look like there is an option to equip a Dread with a storm shield. That seems like something that every space marine army needs.
I love running Dreads, but notice that even in close combat, if you are fighting someone strong enough to hurt it, it doesn't take long for the thing to get "blowed up."

Do you think adding a 3++ to a Dreadnought will make them more viable in games? Even if it means giving up some of their shooting power?

I think it is really cool. With that said, unless venerable dreadnoughts get a significant stat change in their attacks, he is not going to be doing much. Assuming he gets to charge, and adding an attack for the shield since it has weapon stats(2 Base+1 two weapons+1 charge), he will need 4ish turns on average to kill a Space Marine tactical squad. That's ignoring morale checks of course, just speaking of damage output.

He probably won't die either(unless a single tactical squad shoots him in his no invuln Armor 10 back lol), but I'm not sure what his point is other than being an expensive tarpit.

He is cool looking though.

you can't get +1 attack from storm shield. So just 3 attacks on the charge and 2 per round after.

Do you have a source for that? More info leaked on the Axe or the shield?

You called it a Storm Shield, is why I ask. It's actually a Blizzard Shield AP2 S:User that confers a 3++ invuln to the front arc only, and the Fenrisian Great Axe has not been reported as Specialist weapon.

It's a start, at least. Dreadnought should have a 5++ built in. That, or treat them like monstrous creatures.

ahh my bad, i thought it was just a storm shield. lol.

Before The Great Blood Angels Psychic Power FAQ Purge, the BA Dreadnaught Librarian had access to 'Shield of Sanguinius', a 5+ Cover Save. While not an invulnerable save, most Dreads at the time didn't care much or need an invulnerable save during melee combat. They always went before power fists, and armorbane is a relatively new thing.

Bjorn already had a 5++ from glancing and penetrating hits.

However, if that really is a 3++ on a dread, then it could be the catalyst to bring Dreads back into the game. And if the Space Wolves are getting all this sweet dreadnaught goodness, imagine what the Blood Angels will get...

 Tamwulf wrote:
, imagine what the Blood Angels will get...

We tried. And then the thread got locked for being too silly.

 kronk wrote:
It's a start, at least. Dreadnought should have a 5++ built in. That, or treat them like monstrous creatures.

dreads should counts as being in power armour at LEAST... why a fully armoured walked has a no armour save but a T-shirt grants a 6+... TBH allmost all vehicles should have some kind of save


also, IIRC the leaked page says you take the axe + sheild,

so maybe?? its two dread CC's + axe + sheild (ie +3 attacks)

 easysauce wrote:

 kronk wrote:
It's a start, at least. Dreadnought should have a 5++ built in. That, or treat them like monstrous creatures.

dreads should counts as being in power armour at LEAST... why a fully armoured walked has a no armour save but a T-shirt grants a 6+... TBH allmost all vehicles should have some kind of save


also, IIRC the leaked page says you take the axe + sheild,

so maybe?? its two dread CC's + axe + sheild (ie +3 attacks)

Yeah when they decided to give vehicles Wounds(Hull points) they really need to give them saves.

 Tamwulf wrote:
imagine what the Blood Angels will get...

Baron Bludd the bloodborn? With his bloodhammers and bloodlust curse, every time he kills something he gets a blood counter? Spend one blood counter to give him bloodswiftness for an extra attack, spend 2 blood counters for battleblood, to give him it will not die, and spend 3 blood counters to give him blood blood, which lets him fling blood on his enemies masking their sight, making them WS 1 until all the blood from baron bludd the bloodborn is gone and blood blood blood?

Happyjew wrote:We tried. And then the thread got locked for being too silly.

Really? Why?

Orock wrote:Baron Bludd the bloodborn? With his bloodhammers and bloodlust curse, every time he kills something he gets a blood counter? Spend one blood counter to give him bloodswiftness for an extra attack, spend 2 blood counters for battleblood, to give him it will not die, and spend 3 blood counters to give him blood blood, which lets him fling blood on his enemies masking their sight, making them WS 1 until all the blood from baron bludd the bloodborn is gone and blood blood blood?

Oh. Nevermind.

every single codex has its preferred suffixes and prefixes, its about a theme.. GW is not alone in this..

you cant read a guard codex without seeing LAS-XXXX this or that

eldar is aspect this exacrch that, shurican this and that

dark eldar is splinter this, pain that,

necrons are gauss this, gauss that, flay this flay that,

POWER-XXXXX, STORM -XXXX, thunder-xxx and so on...


its really not as aweful as people make it out to be,

Dreadnaughts do not need 3++ saves, seriously. Especially because I can see that GW would make the cost of it so minute that there would be no reason to not take one. And if you're having the issue of sending a Dreadnaught at a target that actually can fight back, that's your problem. MY friend's motto is "Shoot the stabby stuff, and stab the shooty stuff."

Considering there's only, like, one unit in my codex that could go against a Dreadnaught in combat and still kinda live, I would be gak outta luck. My whole thing is shooting them, and if they have 3++, they would probably never die.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Dreadnaughts do not need 3++ saves, seriously. Especially because I can see that GW would make the cost of it so minute that there would be no reason to not take one. And if you're having the issue of sending a Dreadnaught at a target that actually can fight back, that's your problem. MY friend's motto is "Shoot the stabby stuff, and stab the shooty stuff."

Considering there's only, like, one unit in my codex that could go against a Dreadnaught in combat and still kinda live, I would be gak outta luck. My whole thing is shooting them, and if they have 3++, they would probably never die.

U have Gauss weapons though, having regular troops be able to glance a vehicle to death fairly easily is a problem and a detriment to them being taken, a invul save would help against that (although i think a 3++ is insane, give them what the Contemptors have, a 5++ against shooting and a 6++ in CC, that seems fair to me).

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Dreadnaughts do not need 3++ saves, seriously. Especially because I can see that GW would make the cost of it so minute that there would be no reason to not take one. And if you're having the issue of sending a Dreadnaught at a target that actually can fight back, that's your problem. MY friend's motto is "Shoot the stabby stuff, and stab the shooty stuff."

Considering there's only, like, one unit in my codex that could go against a Dreadnaught in combat and still kinda live, I would be gak outta luck. My whole thing is shooting them, and if they have 3++, they would probably never die.

U have Gauss weapons though, having regular troops be able to glance a vehicle to death fairly easily is a problem and a detriment to them being taken, a invul save would help against that (although i think a 3++ is insane, give them what the Contemptors have, a 5++ against shooting and a 6++ in CC, that seems fair to me).

A 5++ makes perfect sense, and is reasonable. But considering I could shoot 40 gauss shots and most of the time only get maybe, 4-5 sixes, if I'm lucky, then a 3++ would pretty much guarantee that Gauss wouldn't do much.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Dreadnaughts do not need 3++ saves, seriously. Especially because I can see that GW would make the cost of it so minute that there would be no reason to not take one. And if you're having the issue of sending a Dreadnaught at a target that actually can fight back, that's your problem. MY friend's motto is "Shoot the stabby stuff, and stab the shooty stuff."

Considering there's only, like, one unit in my codex that could go against a Dreadnaught in combat and still kinda live, I would be gak outta luck. My whole thing is shooting them, and if they have 3++, they would probably never die.

U have Gauss weapons though, having regular troops be able to glance a vehicle to death fairly easily is a problem and a detriment to them being taken, a invul save would help against that (although i think a 3++ is insane, give them what the Contemptors have, a 5++ against shooting and a 6++ in CC, that seems fair to me).

A 5++ makes perfect sense, and is reasonable. But considering I could shoot 40 gauss shots and most of the time only get maybe, 4-5 sixes, if I'm lucky, then a 3++ would pretty much guarantee that Gauss wouldn't do much.

You'd could also fall back on your low AP weapons, your mass shooting medium S weapons, your much faster assault troops, or just ignore the 6 inch moving walker that doesn't have any movement abilities because you have skimmers/jump troops/flyers in excess

Or just chuckle as you take a ghost ark with warriors to his side armor and strip an average of 3.3 HP in one round(it has 3 HP)

Necrons aren't exactly an army to worry about a slow vehicle.

Without spending time to run the numbers, I do think I'd prefer an all facing 5++ over a front 3++ though since you mention it.

 Bulldogging wrote:


You'd could also fall back on your low AP weapons, your mass shooting medium S weapons, your much faster assault troops, or just ignore the 6 inch moving walker that doesn't have any movement abilities because you have skimmers/jump troops/flyers in excess

Or just chuckle as you take a ghost ark with warriors to his side armor and strip an average of 3.3 HP in one round(it has 3 HP)

Necrons aren't exactly an army to worry about a slow vehicle.

Well, as I said, even the whole "take a ghost ark with warriors to his side armor" and causing 3.3 hull points, with a 3+ invuln, one might get through, if you're lucky. But yeah, you could ignore it. Or they drop pod it in....

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:


You'd could also fall back on your low AP weapons, your mass shooting medium S weapons, your much faster assault troops, or just ignore the 6 inch moving walker that doesn't have any movement abilities because you have skimmers/jump troops/flyers in excess

Or just chuckle as you take a ghost ark with warriors to his side armor and strip an average of 3.3 HP in one round(it has 3 HP)

Necrons aren't exactly an army to worry about a slow vehicle.

Well, as I said, even the whole "take a ghost ark with warriors to his side armor" and causing 3.3 hull points, with a 3+ invuln, one might get through, if you're lucky. But yeah, you could ignore it. Or they drop pod it in....

He only gets 3++ in the front arc. So side armor drive by is on average, 1 round death to him by gauss alone.

Also you can tie him up with warriors in assault, he only gets 3 attacks. Stop him from getting to something more useful.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Considering there's only, like, one unit in my codex that could go against a Dreadnaught in combat and still kinda live

I dont mean to insult you, but it is kinda hard to take a necron player seriously when they complain that their army only has one guy who can kill a dread in cc... you have a few more then one... you also have THE BEST anti vehicle ranged weapon acces in the game with gauss, not to mention easy/cheap access to haywire and str 7 with lots of shots for cheap.

no to mention in CC, against ANYTHING that isnt a dread, even if its a 250+ pt character, you have a generic, sub 100pt model that has a 50+% chance to make them totally irrelevant with MSS, so having at least ONE unit that is better then you in CC isnt such a bad thing given how many things you get to just stright up outclass


having to do 9 hp's worth of glances vs 3 (from the front arc only too) is no where near game breaking, dreads are notoriously far too easy to kill, a 3++ on one with no ranged weapons for about 160 pts is easier to kill then 160pts of your spyders that have a 3++, is easier to kill then 4 terminators with SS"s, and so on and so forth

 Bulldogging wrote:
He only gets 3++ in the front arc. So side armor drive by is on average, 1 round death to him by gauss alone.

That is unconfirmed at this point

I usually play Nemesor, so my Warrior-blob would have Tank Hunter if that thing came too close.

Kangodo wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:
He only gets 3++ in the front arc. So side armor drive by is on average, 1 round death to him by gauss alone.

That is unconfirmed at this point

I usually play Nemesor, so my Warrior-blob would have Tank Hunter if that thing came too close.

Well true, Little Bird could be wrong(I wouldn't bet against him at this point).

Let's say it is 3++ all sides. The dreadnought would STILL be easier to kill with Gauss than a Carnifex(which can even get fleet).