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It's coming up to that time of year again, when I look at my Dark Elves, and think "I've played you far too much recently." So I'm now looking at one of my other elf armies to build up. And seeing as High Elves are the worst of the three books, (They're the only elf book to have none fast cav Steeds!) I went with Wood Elves.

Yes. I did basically mirror my current Dark Elf list into the Wood Elf book.

LORDS
Glade Lord
Hagbane
Elven steed
Great Weapon
Shield

Spellweaver
Level 4
Elven steed
Talisman of Pres
Life

HEROES
Glade Captain
Shield
Great Weapon
Elven steed
Hagbane

Glade Captain
Shield
Great Weapon
Elven steed
Hagbane

Glade Captain
Great Weapon
Elven steed
Hagbane
Enchanted Shield
BSB

Glade Captain
Shield
Great Weapon
Elven steed
Hagbane

Spellsinger
Dispel Scroll
Elven steed
Ruby Ring
Fire

CORE
10 Glade Riders
Musician
Standard
Trueflight

10 Glade Riders
Musician
Standard
Hagbane

5 Glade Riders
Musician

5 Glade Riders
Musician

SPECIAL
8 Sisters of the Thorn
Full Command

5 Wild Riders
Shields
Musician

5 Wild Riders
Shields
Musician

5 Wild Riders
Shields
Musician

Out of interest does it perform anywhere near as well as the Dark Elf version?

Drop something and get a pair of eagles in there, they look awesome and would be an awesome unit for this kind of list I think.

Where were you planning on putting your Heroes/lords?

alex87 wrote:
Out of interest does it perform anywhere near as well as the Dark Elf version?

No. Because Dark Elf shooting is better(You get more of it per model.) Dark Elf casting is better, because Morathi. And Dark Riders have a 4+ save and are cheaper.

And Warlocks have better spells, and a better miscast mechanic.

BAN wrote:
Drop something and get a pair of eagles in there, they look awesome and would be an awesome unit for this kind of list I think.

Whilst a pair of eagles would be nice, they'd detract from the list's efficacy. That'd require dropping a unit of glade riders, or a unit of wild riders, both of which serve an important purpose.

therealsuperman wrote:
Where were you planning on putting your Heroes/lords?

All go in the sister unit.

Lots of negatives, why not try an change it up a bit to have some aspects of the dark elf fast cav of awesome but with some stuff that wood elves do better?

I just think it's going to ruin your game constantly thinking 'I should have taken the delves' coz you're right the delves trump the welves equivalent in every way.

BAN wrote:
Lots of negatives, why not try an change it up a bit to have some aspects of the dark elf fast cav of awesome but with some stuff that wood elves do better?

I just think it's going to ruin your game constantly thinking 'I should have taken the delves' coz you're right the delves trump the welves equivalent in every way.

If I could change it up so that the army does something better than the Dark Elf book, I would. But that's physically impossible. Because the Dark Elf book is the best elf book, no matter what phase you look at it.

For instance, I took a shooty army with 30 crossbows, 4 bolt throwers, 10 dark riders, and 3 scourgerunners against a shooty wood elf army. I still outshot him.

How did you out shoot him? It is extremely easy for a Wood Elf player to throw lots of negative modifiers your way while they take none due to True Flight Arrows. I have made a habbit of taking Acorn of Ages and using the Forest it grants me + my own to make a literal Wall across the middle of the field when against shooting armies. So not only do Wood Elves have a longer range then the cross bows, but they are subjecting you to shooting through cover + long range and usually forcing you to move. I have personally found a shooty Wood Elf army is brutally effective vs BS based shooting and are great at picking off chaff like Dark Riders. I am just wondering what kind of list the Wood Elf used.


As for your list, i am not seeing the point of all the heroes in the Sister bus. I feel you are trying to emulate a Dark Elf combat lord, who is inherently better then a Wood Elf one due to easy access to better saves. A Sister bus isn't about combat, it doesn't hit as hard as Brolocks and there magic isn't as agressive. You will find that a double caster build will be far more effective. I am in favor of Shadow on one Wizard and either High or Dark Magic on the other, The attribute of High Magic works wonders on them but of all people you must know how devastating Dark Magic is.

As for the captains, I'd direct you to the best Hero choice the Wood Elves have going for them. The Sisters of Twilight on the Eagle kick so much ass for their points, they are fast enough to keep up with your army and pack the ability to kill chariots and multiple wound chaff that the rest of the list lacks due to One sister causing D6 wounds. They'd also give you more of a presence the first few turns of the game, because remember Glade Riders *HAVE* to outflank, they have no other option. E.G some bad rolls and the main part of your army might not come on until turn 3 or 4.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
How did you out shoot him? It is extremely easy for a Wood Elf player to throw lots of negative modifiers your way while they take none due to True Flight Arrows. I have made a habbit of taking Acorn of Ages and using the Forest it grants me + my own to make a literal Wall across the middle of the field when against shooting armies. So not only do Wood Elves have a longer range then the cross bows, but they are subjecting you to shooting through cover + long range and usually forcing you to move. I have personally found a shooty Wood Elf army is brutally effective vs BS based shooting and are great at picking off chaff like Dark Riders. I am just wondering what kind of list the Wood Elf used.


As for your list, i am not seeing the point of all the heroes in the Sister bus. I feel you are trying to emulate a Dark Elf combat lord, who is inherently better then a Wood Elf one due to easy access to better saves. A Sister bus isn't about combat, it doesn't hit as hard as Brolocks and there magic isn't as agressive. You will find that a double caster build will be far more effective. I am in favor of Shadow on one Wizard and either High or Dark Magic on the other, The attribute of High Magic works wonders on them but of all people you must know how devastating Dark Magic is.

As for the captains, I'd direct you to the best Hero choice the Wood Elves have going for them. The Sisters of Twilight on the Eagle kick so much ass for their points, they are fast enough to keep up with your army and pack the ability to kill chariots and multiple wound chaff that the rest of the list lacks due to One sister causing D6 wounds. They'd also give you more of a presence the first few turns of the game, because remember Glade Riders *HAVE* to outflank, they have no other option. E.G some bad rolls and the main part of your army might not come on until turn 3 or 4.

A) All the negatives don't matter when I've got 7 bolt throwers, 60 shots, Dark Riders, Death magic and all the time in the world. And he had about 60 glade guard. Remember. If 5 glade guard all hit, that's 5 hits. If 5 Darkshards all hit, that's 5-10 hits.

B) The list isn't designed for combat. If you think the brolock bus is, then you are sorely mistaken. Nine times out of ten, my bus never sees combat.

C) The list is designed to faff about, avoiding all the charges and dropping dwellers on people. Sisters allow me to do that. The character wall is there so I can hit at high strength if I get caught and protect the level 4, which shouldn't happen, but it is a game of dice. The doulble caster is meh. High magic is a bad lore with a good attribute. I don't ever see the point of casting any spell beyond walk between worlds with this kind of list. Dark magic is slightly better, but again, beyond soul stealer, doombolt/chillwind, I'm not going to cast. And even then, life buffs are more suitable for the list.

C) Again. The character wall is there to do the primary job of keeping the level 4 safe, and mopping up chaff.

I still don't understand how you have ''all the time in the world''. Cross bows are 24'', meaning those Dark Shards have 12'' less effective range then Glade Guard (Glade Guard can move and shoot without penalty, Darkshards cannot). And of those 5 Glade Guard, 3 will hit, because we are hitting on 3's at all times. Out of those 5 Darkshards, they are shooting long range (-1) with multiple shots (-1) into soft cover (-1) meaning you are hitting on 6's, 6/4's if you have moved. If your 10 Darkshards all hit under those circumstances then i'd call you out for weighted dice!

For the bolt throwers, they have nothing worth shooting at due to no unit having an armour save worth a dam, and i believe the multiple shots is also range 24''. Dark Riders will be going down before Darkshards, because those Dark Shards won't be in effective range until turn 2/3. Then those Dark Riders are looking at a lot of shots hitting on 3's with armour piercing, that will cause some havok, while those Dark Riders will be looking at those same negative modifiers as the crossbow men.

Unless you serverly out magicked the a good Wood Elf list should win a shoot out vs a shooty Dark Elf list simply because of the modifiers we can put on you, but ignore ourselves.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I still don't understand how you have ''all the time in the world''. Cross bows are 24'', meaning those Dark Shards have 12'' less effective range then Glade Guard (Glade Guard can move and shoot without penalty, Darkshards cannot). And of those 5 Glade Guard, 3 will hit, because we are hitting on 3's at all times. Out of those 5 Darkshards, they are shooting long range (-1) with multiple shots (-1) into soft cover (-1) meaning you are hitting on 6's, 6/4's if you have moved. If your 10 Darkshards all hit under those circumstances then i'd call you out for weighted dice!

For the bolt throwers, they have nothing worth shooting at due to no unit having an armour save worth a dam, and i believe the multiple shots is also range 24''. Dark Riders will be going down before Darkshards, because those Dark Shards won't be in effective range until turn 2/3. Then those Dark Riders are looking at a lot of shots hitting on 3's with armour piercing, that will cause some havok, while those Dark Riders will be looking at those same negative modifiers as the crossbow men.

Unless you serverly out magicked the a good Wood Elf list should win a shoot out vs a shooty Dark Elf list simply because of the modifiers we can put on you, but ignore ourselves.

You have 12" more range than I do, but I still bring more shots to the table than you. And because Darkshards are much less points, I can bring way more bodies than you. And sure, shoot at my three units of 10 crossbowmen. And if glade guard take the trueflight Then I get 1.25 crossbows per glade guard. Which starts adding up. And let's not forget all the vanguards. And you forget one thing. Even if I don't outmagic you. All I need is for two of those units to be within 6" of a cauldron. And a unit of warlocks. And then the shooting is a non-event. Wood Elves won't hold a candle to the Dark Elves at that point.

If played right, the Wood Elves should never be outshot by any other Elven army.. so saying the Dark Elves do it better is based on stats alone.. obviously double the firepower (repeater crossbows/bolt throwers) is better in theory.

Not saying it will never happen, but with equally skilled generals, the Wood Elves win the shooting phase hands down.

Anyway, onto the list. I like that you're trying something different and against certain matchups it will work really well.

Against any kind of gunline or flying circus army, you're likely going to get murdered if not careful.

Some thought needs to go into how to handle high toughness/armored units or fliers.

Lastly, you only have 8 drops, 5 of which can be shot down with a sneeze from anything with a moderate amount of shooting. If even one of your units leaves play, that's one less speed bump/flanker/shooter your enemy has to deal with. Even with life, you can only heal so much per round, if the spell even gets off.

Looks fun.. but competitive? I'm interested to see how it works out against the harder lists / players out there.

That's the problem though, 4 Glade Guard will be more effective then 5 Dark Shards in that situation. 4 shots equals 1.332 (1.110 after save) wounds, 5 Darkshards hitting on 6's does 0.8333 wounds. When you factor in the fact that the Glade Guard get 1/2 turns of shooting before the Dark Shards are in range, then a turn of shooting were the Dark Shards moved so hit on 6's/4's it's clear who is Superior.

In a shooty Wood Elf army you also have to factor in the Hagbane scouts he will be taking, as well as the Waywatchers and even the Shadow Mage. I'd agree with you, in theory double shots is better, but the fact that the Wood Elf army is ASSURED to have between 2 and 4 Forests to place to force negative modifiers and the fact the Wood Elves do not take these themselves means that they can choose their priority targets (E.G Brolocks/Dark Riders) and be at little threat from the Darkshards due to their lower range and modifiers. So i guess, much like the current 40k, the game would lean very heavily towards who got first turn...

Also, as a reference from the Dark Elf FAQ:

Strength of Khaine (p.47)
Q: Does this rule benefit to spells? Shooting?
Chariot impact hits? Mounts?
A: As Strength of Khaine applies only to models
with Murderous Prowess, apply the limitations of
Murderous Prowess to Strength of Khaine,
treating it as an extra buff to that rule. Spells,
missiles, chariot impacts, mounts attacks do not
benefit from Strength of Khaine.
Q: Does Strength of Khaine allow rerolls for
models out of 6" bubble?
A: Yes, as long as at least one model is within 6",
the entire unit gains the benefit.

So, your Cauldron theory unfortunately doesn't do all you think it does.

 scorpio7777 wrote:
Also, as a reference from the Dark Elf FAQ:

Strength of Khaine (p.47)
Q: Does this rule benefit to spells? Shooting?
Chariot impact hits? Mounts?
A: As Strength of Khaine applies only to models
with Murderous Prowess, apply the limitations of
Murderous Prowess to Strength of Khaine,
treating it as an extra buff to that rule. Spells,
missiles, chariot impacts, mounts attacks do not
benefit from Strength of Khaine.
Q: Does Strength of Khaine allow rerolls for
models out of 6" bubble?
A: Yes, as long as at least one model is within 6",
the entire unit gains the benefit.

So, your crossbow theory unfortunately doesn't work.

Where is this FAQ? Looking at the GW FAQ list, it isn't there. If you mean the druchii independent FAQ, I do not go by that, as all the events I go to use the official FAQs.

So, it does actually apply.

Hmm.. thought that was the official FAQ, just hosted on their site! That's actually good to know because Dark Elves are my newest army (just picked up 2500 pts in a deal I couldn't pass up).

High Elves, WoC and Dark Elves. I have a pretty lethal batch of plastic!