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With the addition of Star Wars: Armada and Star Wars: Imperial Assault the X-Wing forum needs to be renamed to indicate that it's the appropriate forum (I presume) to discuss these two games.

I am updating the title to reflect some preliminary conclusions of the thread. Thanks ~Manchu

Space flight games? maybe?

EDIT: oh wait... maybe that should be space fighting games... actually is Armada played in space? I haven't looked anything up on it yet.

Armada is a space game involving large ships. Imperial Assault is a ground combat skirmish game.

 djphranq wrote:
Space flight games? maybe?

EDIT: oh wait... maybe that should be space fighting games... actually is Armada played in space? I haven't looked anything up on it yet.

Since it's still going to be focused on Star Wars and not space fighting games in general it needs to be something like 'Star Wars - Fantasy Flight Games'.

Oh you know what? for some reason I thought you mentioned Star Trek Attack Wing too... my bad

That is the forum where the Trek game lives as well, though....

I guess the question becomes does it become the "FFG Star Wars Game" forum, or the "X-Wing and other Spaceship games" forum. - continuing it's inclusion of the Trek game and perhaps even including things like Full Thrust and the upcoming Dropzone Fleet thingy.

I personally believe X wing and the rest of the SW based FFGs miniatures games belong there and ST:AW should have a forum of it's own, along with the new D&D:AW.

ST:AW being sandwiched into two very cluttered and confused threads in the Xwing forum isn't good.

This topic has been under consideration by the management. It is useful to get you guy's views.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
This topic has been under consideration by the management. It is useful to get you guy's views.

I think the management should take time to go look at those two ST:AW threads, see the battle reports, modelling/repaint (the Wizzkids minis are not brilliant, so lots of us are getting quite DIY with our ships!), list building etc and see how many times someone posts something noteworthy that gets overlooked.

The argument is that there is a small following for AW here, the counter I feel is that it would be larger if it had it's own little room to fill up. With the D&D version out, I don't see any harm in sharing the same forum space with that game.

I can certainly see several forums given over to other games with a far smaller national and international following than ST:AW.

I also think it would free up the XWing forum to be a 'whole house' for the SWars franchise under FFGs.

Currently Star Trek is not mentioned in either the name of the forum or in the forum description.

Perhaps a change to 'Fantasy Flight Miniature Games' would be more appropriate, with a listing of the games in the forum description.

Trek isn't a FFG game, it's built using the Xwing engine, but it's a Wizzkids game, plays somewhat differently and has a lot of event-driven content.

I think that it's large enough to warrant a forum of it's own/shared with other Wizzkids stuff as the previous argument of 'it doesn't generate enough traffic' is a self fulfilling prophecy, it does generate a good deal of traffic on Boardgamegeek and facebook and as Gencon demonstrated (somewhat unfavorably via the stampedes and injuries) it's a popular game.

Manchu was right that having it in the same pool as Xwing was complicating things for both games, with people opening posts for the other game and becoming frustrated, but shoving it unceremoniously into two condensed threads at the top of the page is not really a good way to have it either. I understand that was a temporary patch for the relief of the Xwing players, but ST:AW is a substantial sized game with a large playerbase worldwide.

I have to say not being familiar with either game I had assumed that Attack Wing and X-Wing were both by Fantasy Flight Games.

Likewise.

Fantasy Flight Games

And

Wizkids - Attack Wing

Seem like two sensible forums to me. Sure, FFG might get some overlap with the RPG section, but hey, no biggy.

Although, you could even just replace Attack Wing with 'Wizkids Games' if you want to get some heroclix traffic there too? I dunno, Heroclix is a bit of an unknown concept to me.

Maybe name it the 'Star Wars/Star Trek Games' forum with the forum description reading 'A forum for discussing Fantasy Flight's Star Wars: X-Wing, Armada and Imperial Assault and WizKids Star Trek: Attack Wing games'

I have been discussing Attack Wing matters here on dakka since the game first came out last August. I qm a regular poster in our 2 lowly threads and it gets very frustrating to keep a discussion going. You post a topic about a rule, boom there is someones repaints. You want to discuss new ships, boom there is someone's battle report. Just as we get topics rolling the get derailed with other discussions and itsnis very difficult to backtrack through a thread that is 20 some pages long and has over 500 replies.

However it also isn't right to put us in the same thread as X-Wing. Attack wing currently has 36 retail ships, that will become 47 by the end of the year. Plus a regular release schedule of 3 a month with no sign of slowing down. Also each month there is a different tournament with its own rules, resource game components, prize ships. Wizkkids has announced a national tournament system. There is tones to discuss, but our current 2 threads holds us back from in depth analysis. We have a good group of regular posters and we will pick up more when people can find up.

If you throw all that stuff into x-wing it could get cluttered fast. Yes these 2 games are built on a similar engine, but wizkids has changed some things and has much more diverse tournament system. It just wouldn't be fair for us to bombard the x-wing forum with all of the possible topics. They have a very different tournament system and game style. Outside of movement templates and 8 sided dice they are very different games.

Most wizkids games follow a similar event system so it would be more appropriate to put all wizkids stuff in one place. As long as we could make our own threads I don't think any of the Star Trek fans would mind sharing with other wizkids games. I for one would love to post more battle reports, or have balanced discussions on ship types, but there is very little point when they will get lost so easily on an over packed thread.

Dakka also offers a much nicer environment for discussion than facebook or boardgamegeek. I know a lot of people have left them because there is little to no moderator involvement and things can get very volatile over there. Here on dakka we have a more civilized and respectful group of people.

Wouldn't worry me personally if the forum expands to officially and properly include AW and/or the other FFG Star Wars games. Obviously having ST:AW ghettoised into two threads isn't ideal, either - and one way or another, the forum is going to get cluttered with the other two SW games on the way.

"Star Wars/Star Trek Miniature and Board Games" probably works better than a more open and generic "Fantasy Flight Games", since that would bring in a lot of other random threads that live in boardgames, RPGs and so forth right now - Descent, Rogue Trader, WFRP, Arkham Horror... even Edge of the Empire and it's ilk.

How about flight path game thread. Could include Star Wars, Star Trek, d&D attack wing, wings of glory, Armada

 Theophony wrote:
How about flight path game thread. Could include Star Wars, Star Trek, d&D attack wing, wings of glory, Armada

I think the idea should be separating Xwing and ST:AW from each other. Manchu put all the ST:AW stuff into two stickies and out of the XWing forum because they were muddying the waters and people from each game kept opening and reading threads on the other, causing confusion.

They deserve separate space imo.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
How about flight path game thread. Could include Star Wars, Star Trek, d&D attack wing, wings of glory, Armada

I think the idea should be separating Xwing and ST:AW from each other. Manchu put all the ST:AW stuff into two stickies and out of the XWing forum because they were muddying the waters and people from each game kept opening and reading threads on the other, causing confusion.

They deserve separate space imo.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, make a heading for a section of all flight path games then each individual gets a section under it. Instead of just miscellaneous games do a header for flight path, header for WWI+WWII, weird west, alternative history, etc then under flight path have staw forum, x-wing forum, armada forum, wings if war forum, d&d attack wing forum. I mean infinity just got it's own header right?

 Theophony wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
How about flight path game thread. Could include Star Wars, Star Trek, d&D attack wing, wings of glory, Armada

I think the idea should be separating Xwing and ST:AW from each other. Manchu put all the ST:AW stuff into two stickies and out of the XWing forum because they were muddying the waters and people from each game kept opening and reading threads on the other, causing confusion.

They deserve separate space imo.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, make a heading for a section of all flight path games then each individual gets a section under it. Instead of just miscellaneous games do a header for flight path, header for WWI+WWII, weird west, alternative history, etc then under flight path have staw forum, x-wing forum, armada forum, wings if war forum, d&d attack wing forum. I mean infinity just got it's own header right?

The problem is that there is not enough traffic to justify a subforum for each and every game. Management has already stated that a game has to have a specific amount of postings before it will be considered for its own subforum.

I believe Legoburner said at one time (I may be mistaken) that it was possible to give posters an option to add a tag to the subject line. For example, if the post is about Star Trek: Attack Wing, you choose that selection and it adds something like [Star Trek] at the front of the thread subject.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
ST:AW being sandwiched into two very cluttered and confused threads in the Xwing forum isn't good.

Agreed, this state of affairs was a compromise solution reached some time ago and IMO has proven unsatisfactory. Whether STAW + DDAW can generate enough discussion to merit a sub-forum is iffy. At the very least, however, I would like to "release" these topics back into the wild of Misc. Miniature Games.

 Ghaz wrote:
Perhaps a change to 'Fantasy Flight Miniature Games' would be more appropriate, with a listing of the games in the forum description.

This is exactly what we are thinking of doing with the current X-Wing forum. This will likely go ahead regardless of where STAW + DDAW end up.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Dakka also offers a much nicer environment for discussion than facebook or boardgamegeek.

I agree. And I do not think the two stickied threads provides adequate indication of how much interest there is on Dakka, either currently or potentially, in discussing STAW + DDAW.

 Manchu wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
ST:AW being sandwiched into two very cluttered and confused threads in the Xwing forum isn't good.

Agreed, this state of affairs was a compromise solution reached some time ago and IMO has proven unsatisfactory. Whether STAW + DDAW can generate enough discussion to merit a sub-forum is iffy. At the very least, however, I would like to "release" these topics back into the wild of Misc. Miniature Games.

If you build it...

I believe, from the presence on board game geek and facebook, that providing this game, or at least providing Wizzkids games, with a home of their own here will prove worthwhile.

Dumping it back into misc games is possibly a worse solution for AW players than the current situation. Give us a spot of our own.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Give us a spot of our own.

I'd caution against approaching this topic from the perspective of "us" and "our own." It is not a question of the people who like STAW and/or DDAW but rather of the games themselves.

As a product line, STAW is not as popular as X-Wing and I don't think DDAW will make up the difference. As things stand, the STAW stickies make up about 16% of the X-Wing sub-forum posts. Assuming STAW discussion has been artificially restrained by corralling it into the stickies, could posting increase sufficiently to merit a new sub-forum? Keep in mind that there is no hard target here, AFAIK.

The X-Wing sub-forum has averaged 500+ per month since opening. Can STAW + DDAW do a third of that? a half? more than?

I have de-stickied the STAW threads and released them back into Misc. Miniatures Games. You STAW posters are free to open as many non-duplicative threads as you like there. This will give us the chance to see how STAW (and DDAW) do without being constrained to two threads. And then we will have a better idea as to whether it would be a good idea to set up a dedicated STAW/DDAW sub-forum.

@Dakkanauts who want a dedicated sub-forum: please pass on this message to other folks who discuss STAW on Dakka. The more quality discussion you guys can generate, the more likely this is to happen.

Whilst I doubt that it could equal X wing for popularity right now, I'd wager it can certainly equal gangfight, on the lamb, lord of the rings/hobbit, gw discontinued specialist games etc.

Holding it up to X wing would be something like holding X wing up against 40k or WM/H.

Point being, I think it could make a viable forum. It's going to be lost in the misc. games and most certainly not attract new posters looking for ST:AW content who won't be able to find it there.

I really hope we can eventually get a set forum for STAW, totally down with sharing it with all other WK games/DnD AW etc.

Misc games is where threads go to die. The forum is overrun with off the wall kickstarter campains. They clutter up the forum and push meaningful discussion to the bottom or off the 1st page. How are we supposed to attract more people if we are in the dakka basement? Very few people will find us there, the average user ignores that forum entirely.

DakkaDakka hosts Gangfight's and On the Lamb's official fora. We have LotR and Specialist Games sub-fora for what you might call historical reasons, given the historical focus of the site is GW's games. No similar reasoning on either score applies to STAW, so the comparisons are irrelevant. The closest comparison is X-Wing.

And no, comparing STAW to X-Wing is not like comparing X-Wing to 40k or WM/H. STAW and X-Wing have far, far more in common (in terms of product, rules, and time on the market) than X-Wing and 40k or WM/H. But I take it that point was meant to go to how much more popular X-Wing is than STAW, which is exactly why I am skeptical that it merits a dedicated sub-forum to begin with.

I think the two of you have it backwards: we don't usually create dedicated sub-fora to attract discussion of some game. Generally speaking, we create them to acknowledge that there is already a significant amount of discussion going about that game. Discussion of X-Wing was originally located in Misc. Miniatures Games but it generated (a) a significant quantity of (b) high quality discussion. (And yes X-Wing had to compete with KS threads back then.) If the same is true of STAW (combined with DDAW), there will be a strong case for creating a dedicated sub-forum.

Kronk says make a forum for ST: AW and one for SW: Armada and one for SW: X-Wing. Kronk cares not for Imperial Attack. That can be relegated to Miniatures Games for now. If and when it becomes a monster of it's own, reconsider moving it to it's own forum or just letting it fizzle where it is.

Kronk out.

I think you should have a FFG forum and then sub forums like you have for 40K. Same for Star Trek Attack Wing. As someone said put it as Wizkids Attack Wing (since there is going to be a D&D Attack Wing coming out as well) there can be a forum for that as well.

I agree, I have stopped going to the Star Trek Attack Wing a lot because questions get in erupted and it's a bit hard to see what post is for what. I asked about repaints, and then you get some rules post and then some repaint posts and then something else. I think a few questions have been lost in the duffle because of some things not making sense.

Davor wrote:
I think you should have a FFG forum and then sub forums like you have for 40K. Same for Star Trek Attack Wing. As someone said put it as Wizkids Attack Wing (since there is going to be a D&D Attack Wing coming out as well) there can be a forum for that as well.

 Manchu wrote:
I think the two of you have it backwards: we don't usually create dedicated sub-fora to attract discussion of some game. Generally speaking, we create them to acknowledge that there is already a significant amount of discussion going about that game. Discussion of X-Wing was originally located in Misc. Miniatures Games but it generated (a) a significant quantity of (b) high quality discussion. (And yes X-Wing had to compete with KS threads back then.) If the same is true of STAW (combined with DDAW), there will be a strong case for creating a dedicated sub-forum.