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Hi y'all,

I've decided to finally start playing the game in earnest and go with Tau, my initial love for Necrons having been destroyed by their awful, horrible, internally unbalanced codex.

Do you think this c. 500 point setup works for a starting army? I'm going for a light skirmishers, guerrilla fighters sort of feel. Not trying to be really competitive, but not wanting to get annihilated constantly either.

Kroot:10 kroot

Kroot: 10 kroot

Pathfinders: 5 pathfinders, shas'ui, blacksun filter

Pathfinders: 5 pathfinders, shas'ui, blacksun filter

Stealth Suits: 3 suits, 1 fusion blaster, shas'vre, target lock & ml

Commander (HQ): fusion blaster, plasma rifle, flamer, retro-thrusters

Don't need blacksun filter on pathfinders. I'd say maybe try and get a way of adding iridium armor to the commander as well.

Why Kroot though? Do they synergise particularly well with pathfinders?

 Zewrath wrote:
Why Kroot though? Do they synergise particularly well with pathfinders?

Because he wants a guerrilla fighter type force, and Kroot work into that theme. Even though you are right that they don't synergize with the Pathfinders. BUT: if he takes the rail rifles and/or Ion Rifles, instead of marker lights then this would be a valid hard hitting force. I'm just not sure where he's going to get the points. I think His theme would work better if he dropped the battlesuit commander and take Darkstrider, but I can't remember if Darkstrider is an HQ option. If not then taking a FireBlade or Ethereal would be a better option.

I was actually thinking of using Pathfinders as my main infantry force if the army ever gets built up. Stick all the bells and whistles on them and they turn into a high-tech special forces kind of unit, a contrast to the low-tech Kroot.

wouldn't Pathfinder markerlights help out sniper rounds?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought about an Ethereal (Aun'Shi?), but I need more anti-tank than just one stealth suit with a fusion blaster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darkstrider rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

Looks good, a few option to improve it though...

Your could drop one Pathfinder from a squad and take shadowsun as your commander.

An idea i've always toyed with is outflanking Darkstrider with a squad of Firewarriors. -1 toughness would mean wounding space marines on 2s

Markerlights will help sniper rounds hit as normal but won't help them in wounding or anything.

Don't use Pathfinders as main infantry, they cant take rifles, have a worse save, are more expensive and you only have 3 FA slots and you really want them providing markerlight support.

It's the Myamoto name, it puts a lot of people off. For your kind of army, his rules are perfect.

Just rename him. I did, and my scratchbuilt version has a Y-shaped facegina, marking it as a woman. Instant new character with fitting rules.

Really, for your anti-tank in this army, your best bet to stick with fluff is probably haywire grenades.

Haywires require getting within throwing distance!

Maybe just more stealth suits?

Uh, Pathfinders only have 18" range anyway. Kroot Rifles only 6" more than that. Trust me, you're going to be in throwing range a lot more than you want to be.

Yeah, maybe I'll do that. Let me rework the points cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How does this look?

I know Aun'Shi isn't thought of well, but I love the kung-fu alien thing.

Kroot
10 kroot 60
Sniper rounds 10
70


Kroot
10 kroot 60
Sniper rounds 10
70

Pathfinders
5 pathfinders 55
Rail rifle 15
shas'ui 10
EMP 10
90


Pathfinders
5 pathfinders 55
Ion rifle 10
shas'ui 10
EMP 10
85

Stealth Suits
3 suits 90
1 fusion blaster 5
shas'vre 10
target lock & ml 5
110

Aun’shi 110

499 (501?)

Just to regard your intra-codex imbalance comment: Stealth Suits are quite overcosted for what they are able to do.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just to regard your intra-codex imbalance comment: Stealth Suits are quite overcosted for what they are able to do.

I know, but I love the model and idea.

I get the feeling that GW values Infiltrate highly.

I really like your unconventional warfare (UW) concept, with the pathfinders playing the role of green berets and the Kroots as indigenous/local forces that they are training/leading. In fact I think i'm going to try to make a fun list to follow this concept the next time I play at the 500 point level. I've always liked the concept and models of both Pathfinders and Stealth Suits and this motif allows them to be the primary focus.

At the 500 point level your list will be fun to play and might even work against certain armies. I wouldn't be as worried about vehicles and I personally think that the Rail and Ion Rifles in your teams can handle about everything at distance and then you have stealth suits to infiltrate/deep strike and fusion blast anything up close.

Some thoughts thoughts on improving your list while staying within the concept is:

bring a Krootox or two with your Kroots, the ability to infiltrate or outflank a S7 AP4 rapid fire weapon with 48" range would be a great addition at this point level for only 25 points.

I think that a standard Etheral or Fireblade would be better suited for your force as they are cheaper and allows you to free up points for other goodies. I agree with others that Darkstrider would be ideal in this list but he comes in at a 5th of your total points, and as you said you just don't like the dude!

I know there was some discussion about distance of Pathfinder weapons, but if you are concerned about that you can always take that pulse accelerator drone that adds 6 inches to the squads range. if this is something that you are concerned about!

Just an Idea but this is how I would run this concept:


HQ - Ethereal

ELITE - Stealth Team - (3 Suits, 1 with FB and TL)

FA -

5 x Pathfinders (rail and ion)
5 x Pathfinders (rail and ion)


TROOPS

10 x Kroot, sniper rounds, Krootox
10 x Kroot, sniper rounds, Krootox

That is 500 points on the nose, if you want you can take the TL off fusion stealth and give your Etheral a homing beacon if you wanting a more precise deep strike



Hopes this helps, either way it should be a fun list!

I'm not sure stealths are that badly over costed in overall terms.

There main issue is that in the Tau book they sit in the same FOC section as crisis suits and riptides!

3 stealths deepstriking in and getting into a ruin can nuke a tank with the Fusion gun and lay down 8 S5 shots onto infantry around them and then Enjoy a 2+ cover save to boot.

While in a bigger or more competitive Tau list the slot would almost always be filled with Crisis suits in a small points format stealths are a pain in the butt and I speak from experience, my regular opponent still fields 3 or 4 in 1500 point games and they often stop a rhino dead before it even gets a chance to move my marines forward and then harries my backline snipers until I have to divert an assault unit back or waste a shed load of fire to beat the 2++

Stealth Suits are an awesome model and thanks in part to 3 of them coming in the starter box for Tau I fielded 2 teams of three when I first started fighting for the greater good.

Their ability to both infiltrate and deep strike really makes them a versatile option in in smaller games. Especially as previously noted their ability infiltrate can wreck havoc on opponents the first turn. Just with a single wound they can be a bit squishy, but the stealth/shrouded comb helps them mitigate that!

I wish that there was a character that allowed you to take them as Troops or they were moved to the Fast Attack chart.

DocCheech, I really like the contrast between the high-tech Tau and the Kroot, and the special-forces feel is just what I am going for.

If this army gets built up, I'm going to focus on high mobility -- Kroot as troops, Vespids since they're so fast, Piranhas. Might need two detachments to get all the FA choices in there, More stealth suits as elites, and completely trick out the pathfinders with high-tech gizmos,

The only thing I will say is that adding the special weapons to the pathfinders kind of wrecks what they are good at (marker light support) if you want to run them with ions and rails I would suggest you invest elsewhere for marker support, I have seen lists were people run a blob of 8 marker drones although that takes another much needed fast attack slot.

Marker lights really are Taus best friend, ignoring cover and hitting on 2's can be deadly when you are throwing out so much high strength fire.

 throwoff wrote:
The only thing I will say is that adding the special weapons to the pathfinders kind of wrecks what they are good at (marker light support) if you want to run them with ions and rails I would suggest you invest elsewhere for marker support, I have seen lists were people run a blob of 8 marker drones although that takes another much needed fast attack slot.

Marker lights really are Taus best friend, ignoring cover and hitting on 2's can be deadly when you are throwing out so much high strength fire.

Well, if you take a 4-man squad and give them rail or iron rifles, they stop being a marker-light squad and start being a heavy-weapons squad..

I was toying with the idea of using sniper drone marksmen for marker lights when the army gets expanded.

 Zewrath wrote:
Why Kroot though? Do they synergise particularly well with pathfinders?

They do if they have a devilfish.

 throwoff wrote:
I'm not sure stealths are that badly over costed in overall terms.

30ish points for 1W 3+ model is too expensive.

It's a model that is actually 2+ in most circumstances, no?

What do you guys think about pulse accelerator drones to give the pathfinders at this points level? I realize they would be putting them fully in the offensive unit role rather that the support marker light role.

It would be worth it, but not if you're running small squads with max heavy weapons.

Alcibiades wrote:
my initial love for Necrons having been destroyed by their awful, horrible, internally unbalanced codex.

I'm sorry, what?

 Chumbalaya wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
my initial love for Necrons having been destroyed by their awful, horrible, internally unbalanced codex.

I'm sorry, what?

The necron codex is full of internal imbalance, units that aren't worth taking because they fill exactly the same role as other units, only are worse. Triarch Praetorians vs. Wraiths, for instance.


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Not meaning to get into a discussion of the NC here, but I think it's schizophrenic, with a lot of units designed for a style of play that is actually different from what the codex actually encourages. Hence, these units (and upgrades) are never used, whereas others always are..

Awful game design.

Alcibiades wrote:

 Chumbalaya wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
my initial love for Necrons having been destroyed by their awful, horrible, internally unbalanced codex.

I'm sorry, what?

The necron codex is full of internal imbalance, units that aren't worth taking because they fill exactly the same role as other units, only are worse. Triarch Praetorians vs. Wraiths, for instance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not meaning to get into a discussion of the NC here, but I think it's schizophrenic, with a lot of units designed for a style of play that is actually different from what the codex actually encourages. Hence, these units (and upgrades) are never used, whereas others always are..

Awful game design.

Tau codex is almost as bad. Welcome to 40k

As to your theme. I am actually not sure it is even worth taking Markerlights. Mixed weapon loads in the pathfinder squads with Grav wave and pulse accelerator drones will give you quasi-tactical sqauds with better guns and weaker melee.

If you want Markerlights in the squad then make that the stealth teams job. You can get 3 lights in the squad and TL the burst cannons of somewhere else.

I was thinking that the special weapons have a 30" range and this synergize with markerlights. At 500 points I think the pulse accelerator drones are too pricey.

I was toying with taking a Cadre Fireblade just for his B5 markerlight.

If your using an ethereal and going for a guerilla unit you could get sniper drones.

A basic squad is 2 points cheaper than a Fireblade, you get your BS5 markerlight, 6 BS5 sniper shots at 24", 9 if your near an ethereal, shrouded as well.

I'd still say go with shadowsun as your HQ. Fits the theme, is really good and will make your stealthsuits even better.

Also you don't really need any upgrades on your Pathfinders. Rail Rifles if anything and put them all in the same squad

To be honest, I'm trying to figure out how the hell to keep an Ethereal alive.

At least Aun'Shi has a save!

Alcibiades wrote:
To be honest, I'm trying to figure out how the hell to keep an Ethereal alive.

At least Aun'Shi has a save!

Either stick him in a big squad, or another idea is put him with sniper drones and he'll get shrouded (+2 to his cover save).


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TBH in my my opinion the only ethereal worth taking is Aun'va, the rest are squishy and don't do much.

The probably with Aun'shi is all he brings is good being good in a challenge, and as Tau that's too close for comfort.

I have no idea how I'd make him work as there's nothing in the codex which likes close combat to run him with.

Taffy17 wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
To be honest, I'm trying to figure out how the hell to keep an Ethereal alive.

At least Aun'Shi has a save!

Either stick him in a big squad, or another idea is put him with sniper drones and he'll get shrouded (+2 to his cover save).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TBH in my my opinion the only ethereal worth taking is Aun'va, the rest are squishy and don't do much.

The probably with Aun'shi is all he brings is good being good in a challenge, and as Tau that's too close for comfort.

I have no idea how I'd make him work as there's nothing in the codex which likes close combat to run him with.

I was thinking that he might work with Kroot, since he could

throw in a blind grenade
eat overwatch with his 4+ cover save as he charges in
then charging kroot are much more effective in combat


In general I think Aun'shi is intended as an "ethereal that doesn't fall over when poked"