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Just want to see what the response would be, it came up and I was like , that's not actually a bad idea. Basically it costs around 1.25 to 2.00 US to mail a letter to the UK, these days online petitions are bunk. In ye olden days, people did coordinate letter campaigns.

It's very difficult to deal with, especially if you start mailing them to investors and telling them why they should not invest with GW. As long as you are just airing your grievances in regards to the company and why you're not buying their product and how they've affected you.

I'm pretty sure GW would respond if they're investors got 1000s of letters along with GW themselves getting 1000s of letters in regards to business practices.

So anyone list some grievances or write out the letter you think you'd write to GW in a letter writing campaign.


About letter writing campaigns and how they work, why they are effective.

I posted this in the other thread, but basically 10,000 letters is 625 pounds of just stuff. It's incredibly disruptive to a business especially if they have a mail order or just a regular business mail. Sure you can chuck them in the bin, but you do have to look through them. To make sure you're not missing very important mail. Online petitions are not going to get anything. You send 5,000 letters or more to GW and anyone who invests saying how dissatisfied you are with the company and you'll see a response.

It has to been sustained though, like you have to say okay " This is the week we are mailing, then we are mailing 1 week after that, then 1 week after that".

So would you participate?

I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

I would participate. I think it would be very important, though, to generate some sort of form letter for everyone to use as a basis in order to make sure our points are made intelligently and legibly. 1000 letters all saying "you suxx0r" will be useless and ignored, but 1000 letters that are actually written professionally with coherent and logical arguments will be harder to ignore.

Hell, maybe we should just print out those "future of games day" series of articles and send that? They were well written, and written by someone who has qualifications (former CIO of ALDI, I believe) that investors cannot ignore.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

Declining sales isn't "doing something wrong"? Or are we dragging this argument to yet another thread?

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

Revenue is down, profit is down, they have declared they don't do market research because it is redundant (consequently can't have any idea why profits and revenue are down - certainly the reasons offered are flimsy at best.)

So....yeah.

If we agreed on a coordinated series of points, I would participate.

You should start putting this idea to popular blogs and large tournament organizers. If they don't respond to this idea, put it in your back pocket for a later time. Without their support you won't get enough momentum for 1000+ letters a week (unless you do all of the letters yourself which would be funny).

 Azreal13 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

Revenue is down, profit is down, they have declared they don't do market research because it is redundant (consequently can't have any idea why profits and revenue are down - certainly the reasons offered are flimsy at best.)

So....yeah.

Well economic crisis hits luxurry products , so is a way logical.but market search is essential!

also why we cant sent email? you can find easier 10k emails than 1k mails, as emails are free
so if it was email im in but mails....its a bit hard for my wallet (crisis in greece is too hard ) otherwise i would sent a email too

 Pada wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

Revenue is down, profit is down, they have declared they don't do market research because it is redundant (consequently can't have any idea why profits and revenue are down - certainly the reasons offered are flimsy at best.)

So....yeah.

Well economic crisis hits luxurry products , so is a way logical.but market search is essential!

also why we cant sent email? you can find easier 10k emails than 1k mails, as emails are free
so if it was email im in but mails....its a bit hard for my wallet (crisis in greece is too hard ) otherwise i would sent a email too

GW isn't a luxury product, and tabletop wargaming is growing, only GW is dropping. Anyways I think the reason why is it's easy to just delete an email, but when you get 1k physical letters you have to acknowledge that there's something going on. The classic scene in media with a huge bag full of angry letters being dumped on a baffled executive's desk with dozens of trucks arriving with more letters.

Love the idea. But can we write to Starbucks instead? Coffee prices are killing me more than models, and who the hell thought it was a good idea to serve it in cups holding nearly a gallon?

I am sure if we can get enough letter's together, investors will see the error of their ways and make sure Starbucks returns to sell small cups of ordinary coffee at .50 at most. Free coffee refills as in the olden days too.

I voted no because I don't believe there's anything malicious going on here. A company is being poorly managed and the process of natural selection will decide if it survives this negative period.

I'd rather save my campaigning for something genuinely important - though I do understand the emotion behind a suggestion like this.

It could be something as simple as " Please update FAQS" more frequently. Also, I kind of think at this point the customer is the last thing on GWs mind.

Basically just use this as a way of discussing what you'd like to see specifically in the letter,?

For example you'd have a basic letter with a statement of faqs, then another way to make it more personal is to physically write out a letter to the company.

I would certainly help. The terribleness and price gouging must end.

Well I can tell you they're not going to reduce prices, but something that is completely relevant is the issue of rules and clear FAQs would be a start.

That's something realistically you could ask for.

Someone has started something similar

www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/10/petition-games-workshop-and-changeorg.html?m=1

Snail mail costs money, and it wasn't spent on GW products.
If GW gets a sack of paid-for letters from disgruntled customers, and they work out how much money was spent on stamps, they could measure what that costs us.
An email being free to send is seen as worthless. Only time was spent writing it, and cost GW nothing either.

So, a letter campaign would have more impact to corporates like GW.

But, telling them to update FAQs more often depends on us asking those Qs first. If it isn't frequent enough, there is no F in FAQ. Get asking those questions. There is the email address to ask them on the FAQ page.
THAT is the kind of thing we need to coordinate. Get a list of rules questions posted, and we all email them asking the same question.

I'd take a few seconds to sign an online petition (and did), but sitting down to type something that isn't just, as mentioned, 'u are the suxx0r', getting an envelope, getting a stamp, sending it off... I think I'd rather spend even that piddling amount of money and effort on minis, games, and the businesses that sell them, that I do enjoy. If GW is too fick to notice that their nonsense is already plunging them into a hole, well...

 krodarklorr wrote:
GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

Hahahahaha

No, I would not. What would be the point? GW have proven time and again that they have no interest in what customers think, and I gave up any hope of them 'reforming' a long time ago - I'd rather see them crash and burn.

So unless you have a particular desire to overwork their office shredder to the point of forcing them to acquire a new one, I wouldn't waste the cost of the stamp.

Waste of money, GW isn't listening

Naw, screw 'em.

I've found other great options because of their ineptitude at keeping me a happy customer; let them go down with the ship.

I have no skin in the game so I say let them fail. They won't listen or read the letters anyways.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

This is what is so insidious about capitalism and corporate greed. We've just seen 7500 people sign a petition saying they don't like what GW is doing. That what is essentially just 'greed' is adversely effecting them, ruining their enjoyment of a hobby that they have invested years in, and built friendships around.

And then people like you turn around and say "Hey they're not doing anything wrong". Just like Shell isn't doing anything wrong spilling oil all over Antarctica, and Nestle isn't doing anything wrong buying up water supplies in Africa. And Nike isn't doing anything wrong 'sub-contracting' their production to exploitative sweatshops in developing countries. And McDonald's aren't doing anything wrong destroying the Amazon to produce animal feed. And the international Banks aren't doing anything wrong, impoverishing the whole world with usury on an international level. Heaven forbid we criticize these poor corporations, just trying to make an honest living, or try to make them accountable.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

Revenue is down, profit is down, they have declared they don't do market research because it is redundant (consequently can't have any idea why profits and revenue are down - certainly the reasons offered are flimsy at best.)

So....yeah.

I'm of this line of thinking.

A letter writing campaign to GW would be a waste of time, paper, and postage. They're not interested in what we think. If they were, they'd ask us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smacks wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

This is what is so insidious about capitalism and corporate greed. We've just seen 7500 people sign a petition saying they don't like what GW is doing. That what is essentially just 'greed' is adversely effecting them, ruining their enjoyment of a hobby that they have invested years in, and built friendships around.

And then people like you turn around and say "Hey they're not doing anything wrong". Just like Shell isn't doing anything wrong spilling oil all over Antarctica, and Nestle isn't doing anything wrong buying up water supplies in Africa. And Nike isn't doing anything wrong 'sub-contracting' their production to exploitative sweatshops in developing countries. And McDonald's aren't doing anything wrong destroying the Amazon to produce animal feed. And the international Banks aren't doing anything wrong, impoverishing the whole world with usury on an international level. Heaven forbid we criticize these poor corporations, just trying to make an honest living, or try to make them accountable.

On the flip side, this is complete hyperbole. Nothing GW is doing rises to the level of any of the other companies you mention (assuming your interpretation of what those companies are doing is accurate and unbiased in its presentation).

But, saying GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint is, frankly, obtuse. Look at their numbers over the last several years and extrapolate the trends. Their own reports, with a little bit of investigation and analysis, show a multiple year (5+) trend of decreased units sold, year over year.

The only working thing is voting with your feet. If you do not like their stuff do not buy it. If enough people do that they will not make money with the game and either go out of business or adjust.

Always remember: there is few things less credible than people ranting about GW and going to quit the game but still spending a lot of time, money and thought on it.

 Smacks wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I don't really see a point. Why would we be doing this again? GW isn't doing anything wrong from a business standpoint.

This is what is so insidious about capitalism and corporate greed. We've just seen 7500 people sign a petition saying they don't like what GW is doing. That what is essentially just 'greed' is adversely effecting them, ruining their enjoyment of a hobby that they have invested years in, and built friendships around.

And then people like you turn around and say "Hey they're not doing anything wrong". Just like Shell isn't doing anything wrong spilling oil all over Antarctica, and Nestle isn't doing anything wrong buying up water supplies in Africa. And Nike isn't doing anything wrong 'sub-contracting' their production to exploitative sweatshops in developing countries. And McDonald's aren't doing anything wrong destroying the Amazon to produce animal feed. And the international Banks aren't doing anything wrong, impoverishing the whole world with usury on an international level. Heaven forbid we criticize these poor corporations, just trying to make an honest living, or try to make them accountable.

A bit of hyperbole, but I get your meaning. Scale it down a bit and we see GW and the Spots the Space Marine fiasco as morally questionable at best. But then there's the Chapter House case, the horrible way they treat independent stores that could work for them if they weren't treated as enemies.
Yes, its a business and is out to make money, but when their desire to make money pushes customers away, then they're being self destructive.

Saldiven wrote:
On the flip side, this is complete hyperbole. Nothing GW is doing rises to the level of any of the other companies you mention (assuming your interpretation of what those companies are doing is accurate and unbiased in its presentation).

It doesn't need to be 'as bad', the point is they still behave reprehensibly. 'Business' is not an excuse. It isn't right to put money before people. If you screwed over a friend for money that would make you an asshat in anyone's book, but do it to a million strangers and suddenly it's just good business. That isn't right, and people shouldn't accept it as right. Businesses should exist to be useful, to fill a niche and serve society. They shouldn't just be driven by greed, seeking to turn obscene profits at the expense of everyone else (including their own customers and employees). Unfortunately that is the world we live in, and it has become so normal that people don't even see it as wrong anymore. But it doesn't have to be that way.

I voted 'no' on the survey. After all of the bad behavior listed above, why would I care about GW surviving or not? I've moved on to other systems, due in no small part to GW pushing me away. I honestly don't care enough to send a letter.

 Smacks wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
On the flip side, this is complete hyperbole. Nothing GW is doing rises to the level of any of the other companies you mention (assuming your interpretation of what those companies are doing is accurate and unbiased in its presentation).

It doesn't need to be 'as bad', the point is they still behave reprehensibly. 'Business' is not an excuse. It isn't right to put money before people. If you screwed over a friend for money that would make you an asshat in anyone's book, but do it to a million strangers and suddenly it's just good business. That isn't right, and people shouldn't accept it as right. Businesses should exist to be useful, to fill a niche and serve society. They shouldn't just be driven by greed, seeking to turn obscene profits at the expense of everyone else (including their own customers and employees). Unfortunately that is the world we live in, and it has become so normal that people don't even see it as wrong anymore. But it doesn't have to be that way.

The issue is that obvious hyperbole detracts from the point you're attempting to make, and tends to result in a reader discounting your opinion as absurd.

And, sorry man, but businesses exist to make a profit. That's their only reason for existence. I mean, seriously, would you start a business of your own with a goal of not turning a profit? Now, that doesn't mean that the drive for profitability justifies unethical behavior, and doesn't grant carte blanche to an "anything goes" attitude towards how they do business. Their usefulness, niche filling, and service to society are secondary to whether or not they turn a profit. If they do not turn a profit, it doesn't matter how much they attempt "to be useful, to fill a niche and serve society;" they'll be belly-up in a short period of time.

I understand the ethical standpoint from which your statement originates, but it's the kind of standpoint that exists only in theory and fails horribly in the real world (and always has; it didn't even work in socialist/communist societies).

I wouldn't take part in this. I now buy very few GW products (price is the main reason) so I'll let that be their problem. I think you'd be better to simply vote with your wallet.

GW have shown that they're exceedingly stubborn when it comes to listening to criticism, so I think any letter I sent to that effect would just go straight in the bin. And I see that you mentioned thiat in the OP, but remember that GW don't behave like other businesses. They will willingly shoot themselves in the foot to maintain their downright odd policies - for example, closing their Facebook site over an IP dispute, failing to promote their new releases until the week before, or the CEO saying in the financial report that they do zero marketing - not as an admission of a fault, but as a boast!

Not me. Let them die.