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This was a discussion that was happening in another thread on Dakka and I decided to open it up in a general sense. I wanted to get a better understanding of how others refer to their miniatures, what they look for when shopping for miniatures and what their perceptions on these things are. I do understand that technically there isn't a wrong or right answer, only different opinions and views.

Currently there isn't really an underlining standard in general, some players believe there is a standard and others think there is not. We can all agree that each company has their own 'method' for measurement. Some measure from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head and others measure from the feet to the eyes. There are various reasons for it, some marketing, some because helmets/hair but everyone does have their own different methods. It does seem like a good portion are adapting or conforming to the feet to the eyes, and they tend to state that is how they are measuring their miniatures. I also do understand that scale itself can be deceiving, which tends to be why most people like comparison shots with existing miniature lines.

1) In reference to when you talk about your miniatures size (I can see plenty of size jokes already happening) to players and other people, what are you referring too? Or even when you are shopping around for miniatures and looking at their size what is it that you are looking at specifically? Are you looking at the scale in reference to 28mm/Heroic, 32mm, 35mm, 54mm, 75mm and what they are compatible or comparable with or are you actually looking for the miniatures actual height?

2) If someone was asking you as an Infinity, Eldar, Space Marine, etc player what size your miniatures were, what do you think they would be referring too? Would you answer the actual height for your specific miniatures/race or would you instead answer with a scale or explain they are compatible or comparable to X miniatures line?

3) In your opinion, what do you believe is the standard for measuring miniatures when determining its scale, feet to top of head or feet to eyes?

My reference is usually "28mm Heroic = GW" and I compare other scales to that. I don't actually know if that's to eyes or top of head. I've noticed some companies use 30mm or 32mm to refer to their own, GW-compatible miniatures, so honestly I would only trust a) comparison photos or b) first-hand accounts.

I'd like to think of scale as 1/35 or similar as used by military modelling kits,

an exact size reduction with (hopefully) no messing around to cope with casting problems if things get thin or end up being to fragile for game play... they're for display only so it does not really matter

I'd prefer to talk about size for gaming pieces

these do have to take in consideration whether things will cast easily, and whether things will stand up to game play in the material used.

They will alter the things like heads and hands to make them look better on the table too (substantial increases of these get the 'heroic' tag)

ideally 28 (or whatever) mm would represent a foot to eye level measurement of a (human) 6' tall, standing straight, (I prefer measuring to the eye rather than the top of the head to avoid hairstyle/hat issues)

but you'll often find that figures that are crouching (or even standing with legs wide apart) will measure out taller (which is a pain), different sculptors in a range will produce different degrees of 'heroicness'

But overall I'm happy enough to mix stuff as long as it looks roughly right

I am a proponent of scale...mostly because there is no standard as to what "size" means.

Even within a general agreement of what you are measuring to (eyes versus top of the head - something which isn't generally agreed to) there isn't any real agreement as to what is what.

I've been collecting and gaming long enough that I have 25mm figures which are the same size as my 1/72 figure models all the way up to "heroic" 28mm figures that actually are pretty close to the same height as some of my 1/48 figures.

Even now, if you buy figures online - without having any sort of ruler/real measurements on them you will find figures from different (and sometimes the same) company that have almost that same swing in size even though they are all sold as the same "size". As a result, that makes what the manufacturer claims the figure to be - mostly irrelevant. Would be nice if they would invest in a cheap caliper set to provide measurements of their figures...

Finding out what will actually work generally requires you finding a picture from someone else who bought it next to a known figure. That can take a good bit of time, and often is impossible to find a direct comparison - so when you do find a picture, you end up having to try to work the actual size backwards through several different references to get an actual useful dimension (sometimes having to rely on the base size...which may or may not be clearly known with the variety of base sizes...not to mention pennies, washers and other items).

Not particularly bothered with scale / base size- I mix and match ranges as the whim takes me....................but then I am not interested in tourney style games anymore where I guess it may be important.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
an exact size reduction with (hopefully) no messing around to cope with casting problems if things get thin or end up being to fragile for game play... they're for display only so it does not really matter

A lesser concern of mine - but one that does come up from time to time. You can go pretty thin without being fragile in plastic, metal or resin - provided you use the right mix. For something's, there are practical limitations though. When I am doing a figure with a revolver or something like that - the body of the pistol is about accurate. The barrel is slightly oversized. The hammer is a bit oversized in height and length and about twice as wide as it should be for my 1/48 scale figures.

There are certain technical limitations to the casting process that are a greater concern than the actual durability of the figures after they are done for that.

You also have other issues in play. Grab bar ladders going up to an access hatch are tiny, tiny in scale. The scale purist might leave them off entirely (they wouldn't be visible anyway when viewed from a scale distance) - but often I (and many other scale modelers) will end up showing them anyway - often as slightly raised ridges. Adds some surface detail and interest - but they are far out of scale.

The same happens in the other direction though. Small scale gaming (15mm and smaller) will often compress details - especially of things like buildings and other big objects. Having a fight in a city with giant stompy robots is pretty fun - but the buildings to scale would be impractical and a bit boring. For example, Dropzone Commander which they have labeled as 1/188 scale for their interpretation of 10mm size... I just recently finished doing a consultation for setting a not too huge warehouse up for wireless inventory control and the outside walls measured 200 feet by 275 feet. That is 12 3/4" x 17 1/2" or so for a game that is designed to be played on a 4x4 table. Throw in some roads and a parking lot - and you start running out of room for other buildings really fast. Real world office buildings can be equally large too. A local credit union office was 190' x 180' x 110' tall. That is a single office for a relatively small, local bank. Put that on the table at true scale and add the parking lot (about 4-5 times the foot print of the building itself) and your table is almost full. Not nearly as fun as they make it seem in the Robotech cartoons...

So you compress things a bit in order to make the game more interesting. You expand some other things a bit too (alley ways are really narrow...and unless you want to move your figures with tongs...). Those compromises are not necessarily scale breaking - that is, when you look at it compared to the real thing...it still looks right.

Size though, some serious body dysmorphia has to be going on for many of the sizes to look right...especially in larger sizes (looking at you heroic 28s).

Good topic. It's important to define terms, or at least find out how the company you are dealing with is defining terms. Most folks are familiar with these, but for those who aren't.

Scale: Technically this is a proportion based on what fraction of the actual subject's size t the model is. Examples would be 1/72, 1/56, 1/48. 1/35.

Compatabilitiy between fraction scales and Millimeter scales can be fraught however. Technically a 28mm to-the-eye miniature is about 1/56. However 1/56 can sometime seem small next to a 28mm figure because of the "Heroic" bulk of the miniature. Thus, 1/48 or even 1/43 scale models are often the best choice for use with a heroic 28mm wargaming miniature.

Measurement: This is a measure in millimeters (25mm, 28mm, etc) used to determine the relative size of a miniatures. Most gamers also call this "scale", and I do as well.

"Millimeter scales" are figured one of two ways.
-To the eye: most minis are measured to this way. A 28mm to-the-eye scale miniature is in scale with an average human male being 28mm from the sole of his feet to his eyeline. This is a convention that comes from historical wargamers and is used because headgear often obscures how tall a miniature is to the top of the head. Most GW miniatures are in scale with 28mm To-the-eye.

-To the top of the Head: Some miniatures are measured to the top of the head, but this is much less common. You will often see 1/72 scale plastic models labeled as "25mm" because that's how tall the whole figure is. This can be lead to alot of confusion.

"Heroic": Heroic means two different things (or both at once) depending on who you are talking to.
-A. It refers to miniatures being thicker or chunkier than actual proportion would be. Almost all miniatures have some heroic dimensions in order to be sturdy enough for wargaming, but on some miniatures (like GW) it is particularly noticable.

-B. Some companies use it to refer to any miniature bigger than 25mm, but smaller than 35mm or so. Reaper began using the term before 28mm was popular so that customers wouldn't be turned off by "28mm". Confusingly, they still use the term "Heroic 25mm" for most of their figures even though they tend to be 28mm, 30mm or even bigger.

Lastly, as plastic wargaming kits have become more common, and many folks have been looking at more delicately sculptd miniatures again. Folks have begun to use the term "True"

-True: True is basically the opposite of "Heroic" scaled, that is the model is as close to accurate propotions as possible. Even "true" scale models will often have some imperfect proportions in order to make things like ankles and barrels that won't snap in a breeze, in general the term is a pretty good descriptor of accurate proportions.

As for myself…
In general I use millimeter sizes, with an assumption that we are dealing in to-the-eye scales as that's what folks raised on GW miniatures are using, even if they don't know it.

However, I buy alot of GW and more obscure miniatures and often times I'll request that a seller provide measurements to-the-eye. Often times in blog posts or sale posts I'll specify that the measurements are "to-the-eye" just to clarify things.

Scale to me means a fixed ratio where every part of it is proportional to the other bits.


A "XXmm" 'scale' is a convention. In the case of GW models. I'd liken it to a furry convention full of freaks and abnormalities. Nothing in the game is in scale to anything else.

Marines are the same height as unmodified humans, space elfs and orks are the same size again. Vehicles are too small in relation to their infantry (it has been stated that several of them would be the next size up, but this would limit how many would fit on the table - and this didn't fit with GW's sales model).

I do use the term scale for both the size of the miniatures (28mm, 28mm heroic, 15mm, 1/72, 1/48, etc) and also when talking about the number of models that take part in a game (squad level, platoon level, company level, battalion level and so on).

As for measuring models... it would be nice if there were better standards, but there aren't. You can have a bunch of 15mm models next to each other and they'll all be different sizes. You can have a bunch of 1/72 models next to each other and they'll all be different sizes (despite 1/72 being a much more definite scale than talking about the millimeter scale).

It seems like some measure to the top of the head others to the eyes, but even on models where it shouldn't matter (1/72, 1/56, 1/48) there's still large variation from one manufacturer to the next.