Vehicles in cover % or just given?

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**typhus40k**

So this is still and argument at my FLGS and during tournaments. Lets say a Rhino is in a standard 4+ ruin. Do they automatically get a 4+ due to the new 7th edition rule? or does the % obscurity still take in effect. I understand that the BRB states one thing but the contradicts itself.

**BlackTalos**

You might want to read the last few posts here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/600659.page

I think the conclusion (too long ago to be in the debate) for me was this:

a) A vehicle is in ruins and its facing is at least 25% obscured => 4+ (p.77/p.108)

b) A vehicle is in ruins and its facing is not or les than 25% obscured => No Save (Second bullet point on p77)

c) A vehicle is not in ruins, but part of ruins obscure its facing by at least 25% => 4+ (p.77)

C) is the point of contention, but please note p77:

1st bullet point:
"25% (...) needs to be hidden by intervening terrain or models"
I am quite sure i know what "intervening" means, and you cannot be "IN" models.

4th bullet point:
"exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound"
non-vehicle models taking a wound are exactly the same value: 4+

**typhus40k**

Thanks for the link, I am doing some reading now.