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After starting up a new Blood Angels army and having a few games with them, I'm already missing the speed and volume of fire of my Eldar. I haven't played with since a few months after the 7th Edition codex was released, and even then I only managed a dozen or so games. Without buying anything new, I've managed to put this list together and avoid Serpent spam. I've also got ten Banshees and Maugan Ra standing by. The Banshees were never wonderful, but Maugan Ra did well most of the time.

What could be changed to improve this list? I'm trying to keep things as flexible as possible as I don't have regular opponents that stick to one or two armies...

Iybraesil (1000pts)

HQ

Farseer with Runes of Warding – 110pts
Warlock Council (3), 1x Singing Spear – 110pts

Troops

10 Dire Avengers, Exarch withDisarming Strike, Power Sword & Shimmer Shield – 160pts
Dedicated Transport: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Laser & Spirit Stones – 130pts

10 Guardian Defenders with Bright Lance Heavy Weapons Platform – 110pts

5 Eldar Rangers - 60pts

Heavy Support

5 Dark Reapers, Exarch with Tempest Launcher & Fast Shot – 190pts

2 War Walkers, 1x Bright Lance & 1x Starcannon – 130pts

Total Points Cost - 1000pts

I wouldn't really bother with the Warlocks unless you were sticking them all with their own guardian squads or running a larger council in a wave serpent or bikes.

Drop the Warlocks to take another guardian defender squad or give the reapers all starshot missiles.

DA serpent should really have scatter laser, shurican canon, and holofields. Don't bother with spirit stones unless you have points left over.

Dropping two of the Warlocks and keeping one to support the Guardian Defenders would work.

Giving the Reapers starshot missiles, upgrading the Wave Serpent with a Shuriken Cannon & Holo Field leaves 19pts spare. For now I can give that to the Farseer for Runes of Witnessing and be left with 4pts to spare.

Should I be transporting the Farseer with the DA?

This is a tough list to work with from every angle. Is this your army collection model wise? What minis do you have/want to try lets see what we can coble to 1000pts how about you post what you have ideally what you'd like included and we can try to help that way?

This is what I have model-wise and hasn't really changed much since I used it last (nearly two years ago). I used to include a total of four Warlocks and some Howling Banshees instead of the Walkers, but lacked any real fire power.

I'm surprised this is so tough to work, having had a fair bit of success against Tau, Orks, Necrons and Space Wolves. What would be the most obvious weak points?

Here's the current, reworked list following initial advice:

Ok I guess you played back in 5th? That isn't a disparagement just want to check. 1000 pts is a difficult list for Eldar because the army is synergy based and so you'll tend to have to avoid "hard" specialist units (which eldar have a lot of)

Is this a tornament suitability question or a fun game thing? I suppose it's a moot point: Basically if you only have these minis (again I do not mean to seem disparaging just reiterating ) I can tell you this list is the right one. Maugan Ra is actually a good HQ in his own way but he is way too expensive for 1000 pts game and Banshees are hands down the worst Eldar aspect (Warp Spiders are probably the best) but Dire Avengers are the best generalists and so will do well in 1000pts

So, how to use this list.

You might want to hide the farseer and get guide and the other primaris (forget name, prescience?) means you can cast "guide" twice (once 12 inch once 24 inch) you could do this for your reapers and rangers ( or walkers). It will help them with a good buff. Ideally walkers should be anti infantry (SL + SC, one each per walker, means the SC is twin linked and geta rend - mathemetically better than 2xSL and cheaper!) or AntiArmour (then BL+ BL) then in the first case they don't need guide.


I am also a great believer (I tend to repeat this) in 2 warwalkers in a squad with star engines. They can move 4 inch out from building. Shoot. Move 4 inches back into cover in their own turn. Put on a flank shooting outside of the flank behind LOS blocking cover they cannot be shot at. An OP tactic.

so you have dire avengers attacking. Guardians going to ground in heavy covee and 3 ranged units 2 with support from farseers buffs. Should be ok.

I prefer the missile launcher on the Reaper Exarch. With fast shot he can drop two blast templates on weaker hordes or two AT missiles for armor or MEQ units. I usually take night vision as well in case you get night fighting on turn 1.

I played in 5th a lot with CSM, but 7th Ed is my first experience with Eldar. After such a long time out of the game, it's been quite an adjustment and pretty much learning from scratch again.

It's only for fun at a games club through University, although I would like to expand on things eventually. Maugan Ra was used when I've played at 1500pts, but I agree, too expensive for 1000pts. The Banshees were handed down to me by a friend of a friend who didn't have the time for gaming anymore - they're not wonderful but there's no harm in free stuff. I'm aware of how bad they actually are.

The Walkers are for tougher troops and some anti-armour. At my local club there is a Nurgle heavy CSM army that only really get taken out by Lascannons when I'm playing my BA. I was planning on using them to outflank too.

Yeah nurgle are kind of silly.. when I have faced them I also noticed the player (two did this) cheatedly like crazy on points. I lost thinly to a 1600 pt army of nurgle with my legit 1000pts. I may be ungenerous but my experience of nurgle players has always been one of utter powergaming lying cheaters. i.e. the two worst people for bending and breaking and hiding their rules all the way to down right bare faced lies were nurgle. In fact I only ever played nurgle who were like it. I.E.were the only nurgle I met and both were oustandingly bad. And I am always distrustful of almost everything to do with their rules as told to me. Am i a cynic. No. But i've had the experiences i've had. Almost stopped me playing 40k.

What I would say is nurgle CSM ARE NOT MARINES so can be routed so try to do that. I would maybe recommend going 2xBL on the walkers and dropping spirit stones and maybe the spear to try to get star engines try to guide that unit of walkers. While star canons are ap3 they are only str6 and his guys are still only 3+ wound. Big problem. It may be hard with the terrain and how he sets up but walkers are a monsterously over powered unit if used correctly. I would focus on killing 4 or 5 in one unit per turn and hoping for a rout. Don't forget focus the furthest away/nearesr his board edge. So they run off the board.

Umm, ConanMan has a lot of bad advice, and advice that is just incorrect.

Firstly a 1000pt Eldar list is easy to make competitively/casually.

Secondly CSM are Space Marines, just without ATSKNF, its a slight weakness.

Thirdly Star Cannons are 36" S6 Ap2 Heavy2.

Lastly Don't count of Nurgle marines consistently failing LD8/9 and running 12" off the board on the top of turn 1.

Hmm well it is not bad advice if it is correct.. my point wasn't the ap one way or the other. I took off all my star canons 2 years ago. When I wrote it was late and it was a long post. What i find (in forums) is people pass on the same ballhooks without actually know whether it is true. It should be about real experience. It isn't. I win all the time with eldar and am the guy to beat at local tourneys. I have actually only lost once. (True) in about 13 tournament games. I habitually avoid the "rhetoric" that the forums re sell because i test a fact before it becomes a fact. Everyone here will basically tell you spend £700 on new models so they can be right. It is nonsense. The best 1000 pt list you can have looks not at all like what you have. Instead I offered advice on what you own. You will find this "tack" almost universally ignored. Also I felt bad about saying what I said about nurgle but it is true: they seem to attract the powergamer fraternity of the CSM hobbiest. But they have weakness


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also getting a 1000pt eldar list that is anti AV14 . anti fliers and can do enough dpm per turn to everything else IS hard.

Well, this thread took a turn for the worse...

I greatly appreciate the advice ConanMan, and I am fully aware that what I have isn't ideal, but for the sake of attending gaming clubs on a Sunday whilst at uni: I'm not going to go mad and spend what little money I have on new models.

Regarding Nurgle, I can't comment beyond those I've played against did it fairly, they're just hard as nails to crack where there large Tac squads.

I should eventually looks into flyers, although I have zero experience with them and everyone at the club has a mutual agreement not to bring them into play unless everyone is using them.

For 1000 points Casual this list is pretty solid dude. Ill pretty much go down your list and add in comments and such.

Farseer
These guys are brilliant. I never would play Eldar without at least one of them. I would say give him Runes of Witnessing as these are much more relevant than Warding. Being a psyker means you deny on a 5+ instead of a 6+ and your large number of psychic dice will help you avoid this, but the ability to reroll a failed test once per game with runes of Witnessing is HUGE (especially in such low point games). Give him a singing Spear (even if the model does not have one, just proxy) because a next to no cost 12" pistol with flesh and armor bane is crazy good.

Warlocks
You already generate 3 dice for the farseer. That should be plenty in low point games. I would say (If you can find the model and have the cash for it) buy Illic the Ranger Character. Shrouded to him and his unit, infiltraits wherever on the board, gives Rangers the ability to become Pathfinders for 13 extra points per model (gives them all precision shot and some extra sweet buffs) and also allows his unit to have splitfire (Put him in a unit of guardians and have a splitfire squad with a brightlance and a 2+ cover save, its hilarious).

Dire Avengers
You want more units in low points games so you can do more and fire at more stuff. A unit of 5 can bladestorm most light to med infantry to death, so take two units of 5. Im assuming you have a single Exarch in the squad, so have him lead one 5 man squad, then take the bare bones one and have them escort (stand in front of and die for) your Farseer. This also will prevent people from wanting to get too close to him, as that spear and the bladestorm risk is terrifying when your at 1000 points.

Guardians
Possibly the best troops choice now in 7th for Eldar (unless you have Illic's Pathfinder Rangers). The Weapons Platform they can take will be your main anti tank gun, their bladestorm will be good against any who come too close, their 10 man size gives them some durability in cover, and they are dirt cheap, so you can take several. If you can, drop the walkers and take more of these guys with Bright Lances. I would say if you can, run 2 units of these instead of the 5 man Dire Avenger Squad that is not with the Farseer.

Rangers
Useless without Illic, miniature Vindicare Assassins with him. If your using any of them then please, PLEASE run Illic. He is too cool not to run! lol, all joking aside these guys are pretty much below average without Illic, but they cost a lot more with him (100% Worth it)

Wave Serpent
Best Transport in the Game (As far as many are concerned) I would suggest giving this thing the engines that allow it to move through cover, as that plus its flicker shield thing in ruins will create crazy cover save shenanigans (sit in a ruin and move 1mm over to get that fre bonus to cover) and take Bright Lances instead of Lasers because you need another answer to AV anything. If you can, maybe drop a unit of Dire Avengers and the walkers and add 2 of these things, one for the Avengers and then 2 for the Guardian units if you take another guardian squad.

Reapers
Cool Models, lots of anti tank, decent range, and they are wearing skeleton suits. Whats not to love. IN low points they are pretty good, though arguments could be made for Falcons/Prisms instead. I would say keep this as is, its a very solid choice. If you take Illic, this would be a good split fire squad.

Walkers.
Personally Im not a fan of walkers. They look cool enough and if you own them you may as well play them, there are far worse things to take, but I feel maybe a small Jetbike squad would help out a lot more, as right now all that can grab objectives are your guardians if it is close to your deployment zone, or the Avengers so long as the serpent does not get popped.

All in all, a solid list that would become a bit more focused and durable with a few tweaks. Under 1000 points is not hard to fit anti AV14 (I dont know what ConanMan is talking about) But trying to fit it with your current selection of models is only a bit problematic. If you had infinite funds I would almost recoment just spamming Bright Lance Guardians with Illic and a Ranger Squad, and then filling the rest of your points with Serpents for more anti armor and the ability to contest/control turn 5 with the objective secured fast tanks, but for what you have now, the only real investment worth making immediatly is Illic. If possible, see if any nearby shops sell Warhammer 40k bits. I looked in my FLGS bits box today and found enough parts for about 30 Guardians (About 23 entire models, and then a few heads or arms short here and there). Also, many people sell their "trash" units on Ebay, so you can probably find good deals on Guardian pieces, wave serpents, rangers, etc. Good luck with the eldar, and may She Who Thirsts have mercy on your soul

Felldrake, great advice in all except illic has split fire if he's the warlord the unit doesn't get it.

Thanks Arbiter, I forgot to mention he had to be Warlord.

Thanks Felldrake, that's a lot of useful information that I'll take on board and use as best I can. I've never really thought about taking Illic, but that's certainly an option. The only issue I can see with including him in a squad of Guardians is the short range limitations that come with a Shuriken Catapult. One thing I do want to avoid is Serpent Spam if at all possible. They're awesome in play, yes, but it's a bit of a shame when you see a board filled with a unit that's regarded as being broken within the game.

I'm playing with a friend today against his Tyranids - lets see how that goes.

Good luck dude. And yeah, Serpent Spam kind of sucks, especially since Wave Serpents are one of those models that like 90% of eldar players already had like three or four of them, and now cant use them without being called a power gamer or WAAC player.

As for Illic, the main reason to put him with guardians is protection. Your usually not going to be actually using the guardians for shooting, just the weapon batteries, and the extra guardians become essentially extra wounds for illic and the platform. If anyone tries to assault into you to stop the constant sniping of their special weapons/seargants and destruction of their tanks, you can use their bladestorm on overwatch, which should be enough to weaken their charge and buy time for a unit of Banshees or Harlequins to counter assault.

Im pretty new to Eldar, I have used some friends armies before to help them test lists, but never actually painted or made my own Eldar army until a few days ago, and I wish I had started sooner, their tanks can be built in like 10 minutes, much quicker then the Metal Boxes the Imperial Factions use, lol.

I just popped back on here to apologise for fuming earlier. I do tend to not toe the party line on forums. But I also "try things" before I suggest them and almost all of the Eldar units can be made to work.

My main beef in forums is people don't ask what people have in models before venturing "suggestions or changes" I personally find it interesting to squeeze value out of any model range.I enjoy it.

For the record the worst/best 1000pt list I ever came up with is this: (I have never used it, it's disgusting, tho I have the models for it I never had the guts)

10 Guardian Defenders with Bright Lance platform. In Wave Serpent with Scatter Laser.

10 Guardian Defenders with Bright Lance platform. In Wave Serpent with Scatter Laser.

5 fire dragons. In Wave Serpent with Scatter Laser.

5 fire dragons. In Wave Serpent with Scatter Laser

1 Autarch with Fusion Gun goes with 1 of the fire dragons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Felldrake wrote:

All in all, a solid list that would become a bit more focused and durable with a few tweaks. Under 1000 points is not hard to fit anti AV14 (I dont know what ConanMan is talking about)

*sigh* I never said getting anti AV14 in 1000pts is hard, i said getting enough anti AV14 while *maintaining dpm across your army and anti fliers* all for 1000pts IS hard. Eldar need to kill thinga faster than they die. They need high overwhelming fire power and delete a unit a go (at least) to achieve this. Plinking at things like marines do will not work. You have to take their models off thd board in a technique I refer to as "running their list" i.e. take easiest to kill stuff off thr board in reverse and run their list. and do this while baiting hiding from their biggest threat. If you can do all this with eldar you almost always win.

I'm a massive fan of walkers, they should be equipped depending on what the intended target is and shouldn't really have a split purpose.

Generally double BL is for vehicles and tough MCs, SL+SC for elite armoured troops and, double scatter for swarms or invuln spammers

Do you have the toughness and saves of what you want to shoot them with and I will find out what the best set up is?

Also how did your 'nid game go?

The game was interesting as I was running two 1000pt armies together - my Blood Angels is pretty much as vanilla as possible and I was really more focused on the Eldar.

My Eldar did pretty well, and lot of the focus was on shooting as much as I could as my opponent takes horde lists to the extreme.

The things I learned: A squad of ten Dire Avengers can pretty much turn any troops to mush through volume of fire. 30 Termagaunts can kills a squad of Terminators and Warlord with Overwatch. And Dark Reapers, the way I have them, worked wonders and took out a Carnifex and a Tervigon with ease.

What I'm lacking is some sort of quick attacking CC units - like everyone has point out, the Banshees aren't wonderful and Warp Spiders are a good choice. No-one seems to mention Striking Scorpions either, which did get a little praise when the codex first came out.

 slowclinic wrote:
The game was interesting as I was running two 1000pt armies together - my Blood Angels is pretty much as vanilla as possible and I was really more focused on the Eldar.

My Eldar did pretty well, and lot of the focus was on shooting as much as I could as my opponent takes horde lists to the extreme.

The things I learned: A squad of ten Dire Avengers can pretty much turn any troops to mush through volume of fire. 30 Termagaunts can kills a squad of Terminators and Warlord with Overwatch. And Dark Reapers, the way I have them, worked wonders and took out a Carnifex and a Tervigon with ease.

What I'm lacking is some sort of quick attacking CC units - like everyone has point out, the Banshees aren't wonderful and Warp Spiders are a good choice. No-one seems to mention Striking Scorpions either, which did get a little praise when the codex first came out.

I run loads of spiders, up to 14 in 2 squads, but not for C. I have also used scorpions in the past but I'm not a fan - they are squishy and only the exarch has a decent weapon (if you give him a claw) and they are expensive too. At the moment I have no CC at all, relying on volume of fire but I am considering taking blood angles allies to give me some close range punch.

I don't know why I said for close combat there, I was distracted. I meant jumping in, shooting and jumping back out. Would have been useful against the Termagaunts in thinning them out a little.

The BA need a lot of work, as I was told when posting a list earlier in the month. I basically bought a load of models based on my knowledge of Marines before really delving into the codex - kicking myself now but I managed to get Captain Karlean, 5 Termies and a Furioso Dreadnought for cheap. The sooner I get over risking a deep strike scatter the better. I'd go with whateveryone says, and for good reason, get Death Company and if possible, Sanguinary Guard.

 slowclinic wrote:
I don't know why I said for close combat there, I was distracted. I meant jumping in, shooting and jumping back out. Would have been useful against the Termagaunts in thinning them out a little.

The BA need a lot of work, as I was told when posting a list earlier in the month. I basically bought a load of models based on my knowledge of Marines before really delving into the codex - kicking myself now but I managed to get Captain Karlean, 5 Termies and a Furioso Dreadnought for cheap. The sooner I get over risking a deep strike scatter the better. I'd go with whateveryone says, and for good reason, get Death Company and if possible, Sanguinary Guard.

Yeh I am looking at Raphen's death company and a captain - not as good as normal death company but count as troops for an allied detachment.

For the eldar though you can't go wrong with a few spiders - they can fill so many roles as they are so flexible

I was actually thinking of pairing Death Company accompanied by a Chaplain, but I'm torn between: a) in an overcharged Rhino or b) with Jump Packs. I'm aware jump packs will make them a more powerful unit for CC, which is what they're for, but having them out in the open will have the shot to bits as everyone is aware of their CC power.

Do you think five Spiders are enough? I'd be worried about them getting ripped up before making any impact.

10 warp spiders, Exarch with rifle and fast shot is quite the effective trouble shooting unit. They're fast, have good shooting, and can assault to finish off the last couple of guys that survive your shooting. They are excellent against all sorts of infantry, light armor, and have enough dakka to threaten lighter armored flyers.

10 spiders deep striking could b something, with fleet battle focus and jump generator you could get some distance between you and them after shooting.

I take as many spiders as the cost allows (squad of 8 and another of 6 if I have the points) - 5 work fine but they get better the more you add obviously.

I take them totally naked - no exarch or anything - the basic gun is awesome enough and with the pseudo-rending you don't really need the rifles low AP (or its extortionate cost)

I always like to take Exarchs for lucky precision shots.

Unfortunately precision shot is only on specific weapons now.

If points allowed it, and probably will as I'm expanding to 1500pts, 10 standard Warp Spiders come in at 190pts. That's a possible 20 S6 Monofilament shots at BS4 - quite inviting, to say the least. Bit of a shame there no Warp Spider Lord of War, really.

Going for the maximum number of models per unit pretty much dulls out the risk of mishaps that the unit can suffer.

How have you guys played them most effectively? I understand this is the army list section of the forum, and will go hunting for posts as needed.