Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Mods: If this thread isn't appropriate for the Dakka Discussion board please move or delete.

I have been brainstorming a skirmish/wargame idea and thought I would post hoping for some feedback / idea exchange.

I apologize in advance as I am known to ramble at times.

Quick overview - the setting is scifi with some fantasy mixed in (magic does exist) and would ultimately run more like a skirmish game in that the focus is on individual characters instead of faceless masses.

With this in mind, I don't want all of the characters to be solo - but have an option for henchmen. The idea for scale is the larger the game, you add more characters / henchmen.

Activation is alternating unit activation but with an option to interrupt - each unit generates their own action points as a sort of resource management

At the moment I am dwelling on combat. I want the focus to be on the characters and any additional models in their unit (henchmen) be more of a bonus and extra hit point type thing.

I also had a thought of an optional campaign where the characters can advance similar to Necromunda.... so it would be like Necromunda but where each main ganger has their own henchmen/goons/pets, etc....

Currently I have it as an attacker vs. defender roll a dice pool of d10s and count successes. Successes are dependent on stats. (Say Accuracy stat is 5+ every roll of a 5+ is a success, vs a defensive stat of 3+ for a heavier armored target)

If attacker has more successes than defender, the difference = the damage suffered (most instances remove a henchmen model)

Modifiers are in terms of more dice to the pool.
1d10 base
additional d10s for additional models (the henchmen)

I want to avoid a buckets of dice mechanic (40k I have had times where I have rolled 60-100 dice at one time, gets a bit time consuming and clunky at that point) so I was thinking the bonus would not be for every individual model, but groups of models depending on their type.

Basic troops = +1d10 per 5 models (max of 20 models)
Elite/special = +1d10 per model (max of 5 models)
Swarm = +1d10 per 10 models (max of 30 models)

Now, I want the characters to be able to choose from different henchmen, have different weapons, armor etc...

I need to differentiate in a way - with the current system could simple use different colored dice - one color for the character and their weapon, and different color for the bonus dice from their henchmen for their weapon.

Differences in weapons would be range, a bonus to dice roll, special rules, and doing more than 1 damage per success for heavy weaponry.

The problem is - I don't know if this would allow me enough variety in the henchmen, where taking different types would matter.

As an alternative I thought about using multiple dice types - the characters would have a larger dice to use, say D10 for the characters, D8 for troops/elite/special and D6 for swarms so the dice themselves would be the difference.

I am starting to move away from this thinking though as the math seems off using the current stat system I have, and something different would have to be used like a universal success number (say 4 is always a success) and have more additive bonuses. Seems ok for small scale, but would like to be able to scale from small games up to very large ones.

What do the masses think? Does using a single die type (the D10) for everything and just using separate colors to differentiate between the Character and the henchmen in the unit suffice?

At the moment I am dwelling on combat. I want the focus to be on the characters and any additional models in their unit (henchmen) be more of a bonus and extra hit point type thing.

Instead of doing it that way why now just give the characters an option to buy that gives them the bonus and use a wound counter or a force field counter or something like that. Why should there be multiple miniatures standing around doing almost nothing when one counter could make everything simpler and you could add useful complexity somewhere else to differentiate the characters. Like more variables for the equipment (no need for RPG levels of detail but more than just a simple +x bonus) or build an usable ability/skill system with EXP based upgrades for campaigns that also allows characters to buy EXP/abilities (for army points) from a character type specific selection instead of only equipment (like Leader/weapon's specialist/magic user/selection of generic abilities for everyone/infiltrator/mechanic/medic/some other class).

The idea was wanting the ability to scale up to size of battle - small battles could have individual pieces moving around, but if you want large ones - a lack of some sort of unit coherency and keeping up with a larger count of models individually could get tedious.

Adding the henchmen to the characters would be a way to scale up by increasing the unit size without exponentially creating more individual units.

IMO, I think you should check out Hell Dorado's combat mechanics where models/characters have a "combat score" which determines the number of dice they roll.... This can be modified (as you are talking of here), but the key thing here is that the player never rolls more than 5 dice at one time. A CBT score above 5 (modified or natural) gives the player a number of rerolls based on this.

Example. If "Snakeman Boss" has a CBT of 8, and he is striking "dire spider minion", the player rolls 5 dice and re-rolls up to 3 misses.

I think this could fairly easily work with your ideas of henchmen providing bonuses rather than fighting on their own as you could be simulating a situation where the initial strike by the main character has missed, the henchmen/minion sees an opening and is trying to get their strike in as well.

I will def check out Hell Dorado, it sounds similar to what I want to achieve.

Right now how the idea is in my head, say a unit consists of a character and 10 "troop" type characters.

So lets say "Zeek the marksman" and his 10 riflemen are making an attack.
"Zeek" 's Accuracy stat is a 3+ so every 3+ he rolls is a success.
The riflemen aren't nearly as good as Zeek and their accuracy is a 5+

In this scenario lets say Zeek has a bonus of some sort that gives him an extra die.
Since the riflemen give a supporting die for every 5 guys they have, they give 2 die.
So for a total we have two "zeek" dice that need a 3+ and 2 "riflemen" die that need a 5+
the total amount of successes is compared to the targets defensive roll in a similar fashion - the difference in successes = damage delt.

To add variation Zeek may be weilding a heavy type weapon, so his successes count as 2 damage each
The marksmen may have "inferno ammo" which has an extra flame or heat type effect.

Have you put your rules ideas on the table yet?

Doesn't matter if you don't have a solid design, get proxies on the table and try out your ideas. You'll quickly find what ideas work and what don't according to your sensibilities.

I literally wasted years of work on endless brainstorming and rules drafts while working on my game, only to find that once on the table, certain things I'd stressed about weren't issues, and others I thought were interesting ended up being too clunky.

I have done some dice rolling with the very base of the combat with the D10s and some slight variation in different units and it works out fairly well - now i'm at the point to give a little more meat to the bones to have variety and it's making me question other things hah.

From looking at your original post, the real flexibility in your henchmen are going to come from "special rules". Attributes like accuracy or damage bonuses can only change things so much, but special rules can literally let you do anything.

Going along with what Vertrucio said, start creating all sorts of special rules for your henchmen and try them out. If something is really game breaking, you will discover that really quick. If a particular ability is useless, that will be revealed in time as your play testers will eventually stop using that particular henchmen. Then, at some point, you will need to start taking a mathematical approach to the testing in order to look for ability combos that are really messy.

In regards to scale, most rule sets don't scale very well. They usually work well at a certain game size and going too far from that sweet spot can cause the game to 'break' or become very difficult to manage. If this is your first game, I would recommend initially designing your game to work a certain game size and then adding scaling rules as a second project.