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So, just like the title says, who out of all the current playable factions could defeat the humans guarding Terra? Why? How?


Personally, I believe the Dark Eldar could do it, specifically Vect. If Vect wants something done, he'll get it done. After all, all he really has to do is open a surprise webway portal over the planet and launch a sun at them, maybe even a black hole. Or even gather all the Mandrakes he can and have them emerge out of all the shadows causing as much of a distraction as he can tearing the planet apart with precision strikes against their Navy, and ground defenses. The speed of Dark Eldar and the precision migt just be able to do it if they stopped assassinating each other and all worked together at a single cause.

Pretty sure in the previous Codex Necrons had a scale model of the universe hidden in some vault, and that removing a planet from it would cause the real counterpart to be destroyed. They just didn't use it because of "cosmic balance."

So yeah, if the 'crons wanted they could crush Terra with a flick of a finger. That's if I remember it correctly that is, probably someone can confirm/deny.

A single Custode could do it. Stick the emperor with one of their pike/staff/halberd things, and boom, astronomican down, deamon portals open all over the place (due to the human part of the webway no longer being protected), instant deamon invasion of Terra. Or the common cold... have you seen pictures of him on the golden throne? His immune system must be fething gak!

Poly Ranger wrote:
Or the common cold... have you seen pictures of him on the golden throne? His immune system must be fething gak!

"And so did the Emperor of Mankind, Carrion Lord of All, give one mighty sneeze, wrenching himself from the intracacies the Golden Throne, and with that sneeze came the end of all life in the Imperium of Man. Chaos was come again."

Ha! Yeh it'd be a bit of an anti-climax to say the least!

A custodes comes to work, sneezes on the Emperor and it's all over. All the other custodes stare at him wide eyed as he look in horror at the booger on the emperors face.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ORRRR what if the emperor just turned out to be an ancient member of the Genestealer cults and HE is the hive mind!?

My top 3 would be:
1) Tyranids
2) Necrons
3) Orks

There reason is simple, training. Now, this might seem weird but bear with me.
Space marines are vastly better trained than any Gaunt, Warrior or Boy. Their martial proficiency vastly surpasses any of three said races because they endured years upon years of vigorous training to hone their skills, and that is exactly what puts them at disadvantage against factions like Tyranids, Necrons and Orks.

If we look at history, we can see that armies were, for the most part, equipped with sword & shield. First of all, it was a simple yet efficient combination of weapons. Secondly, and this was even more important, swords and shield required less skill to use than other weapon (like say an axe or a two-hander). You could train a larger number of people to be more skilled with their weapon in a smaller amount of time.
Let's translate that to 40K.

On one side we have space marines. They are recruited from among the best warriors of humanity. This means that they can't just take whomever they want and turn him into a space marine. These humans have to be born, raised and trained even then it might not be enough.

Then they have to bio-engineer him to turn him into a super-human which takes considrable time and after all of this is done they are 'initiates'. They have to undergo more training and will probably serve in a scout squad before being a full-fledged battle-brother.

Let's look at the other races now.
Tyranids: Biological engineered to be ready for battle the minute they leave the birthing pools. Their training is hard-wired into their very being. They don't require a lot to be produced, only bio-mass, which can be replenished.
Necrons: Just like the Tyranids, their training is hard-wired into them. They've got superior weaponry and they're immensely durable.
Orks: What training? They just mass-reproduce and fight.

In the end, an assault on Terra would be a war of attrition, and humanity does not have the capability to produce combat-ready military froces at a speed that can keep up with these races.

I guess Necrons are 'repairing' rather than 'producing' troops but the result would be the same.

I believe Chaos Astartes have it within their capacity to do so.

The Warsmith Shon'tu came close to leading a second Siege of Terra. If only that stupid navigator didn't suddenly decide to try and be brave... Then again, don't know what his plan entailed if he had gotten to Terra.

Tau is the only faction that definitely could not.

I don't think Dark Eldar have the right kind of military to pull off a siege against such a hard target as Terra. I don't think Craftworld Eldar have nearly enough manpower.

Every other faction could probably pull it off if they really put some effort into it. We know that Ork Waaaghs and Chaos forces have seriously threatened Terra, and the Necrons and Tyranids are obviously very credible threats. The various imperial factions could do it just by virtue of the internal unrest that goes hand-in-hand with Imperial forces attacking terra (as has happened at various points when Space Marines have effectively performed coups against the High Lords or the Ecclesiarchy).

Nobody would be able to fight there way through the billions of defenses of Terra. Not the largest Ork WAAAGH!! or the largest known Tyranid Hive fleet. The simple reason is, the moment that a threat is realized to be heading for Terra, at least 1/2 of the entire military might of the Imperium would rush to reinforce it. Not even Necrons could withstand that. The only conceivable way would be a massive tyranid Hive Fleet coming from below the galaxy like Leviathan, because the shadow will keep it hidden until it is close. Even then it would be 60-40.

That's not to say no one could kill the Emperor, just no one could do it fairly. Anyone with sector destroying weapons could do it if they got close enough. So Dark Eldar, Eldar and Tau. Eldar craftworlds are to slow to get close enough without being blown to bits. But Necrons could use the Celestial Orray or Vect could send a Black Hole in a Box as a personal delivery. Either of those races could break through into the Imperial Webway, as long as they could handle the Daemons on the other side.

Long story short. Nobody fairly. Dark Eldar and Necrons if they cheated.

Any opposition with half a brain. The Imperium is run by a collection of idiots and losers and their elite forces use a 10,000 year old book for tactics. GW's fluff is absurd and the Imperium should be long destroyed because they are anti-science and stupid in general.

I'm gonna say Cypher. By himself.

But only because he seems to commonly be thought to be working to eventually maybe assassinate the emperor for "reasons." Since he's shrouded in mystery and no one seems to know what he's doing, this could obviously be completely wrong, but I like imagining he could sneak in if anyone could. I mean... he's got like... a plasma pistol AND a bolt pistol. With that sort of wargear I can't imagine he'd lose. You know?

Here is what I think we got has defence on Terra itself.

300 Custodians (basically heroic Space Marines)

At least one company of Imperial Fist (so a 100 Space Marine or so)

3 Preceptory of SoB (so about 3000 Sisters)

millions if not billions of PDF troopers and billions of Frateris Millitia.

A few thousand Scions.

Several of the largest and most heavily armed forteress.

To destroy all this, you would need a huge army, with immense ressources and a lot of determination. Terra is probably the most heavily defended world in the galaxy with only possible competition T'au, Cadia or Armageddon. You would need a Waaagh! the size of Ghazkull (the largest one ever seen), a entire hive fleet or the strength of a necron dynastie to conquer it. A Black Crusade could do the job, but they would face an even greater resistence from anything that breath on that planet.

epronovost wrote:
Here is what I think we got has defence on Terra itself.

300 Custodians (basically heroic Space Marines)

At least one company of Imperial Fist (so a 100 Space Marine or so)

3 Preceptory of SoB (so about 3000 Sisters)

millions if not billions of PDF troopers and billions of Frateris Millitia.

A few thousand Scions.

Several of the largest and most heavily armed forteress.

To destroy all this, you would need a huge army, with immense ressources and a lot of determination. Terra is probably the most heavily defended world in the galaxy with only possible competition T'au, Cadia or Armageddon. You would need a Waaagh! the size of Ghazkull (the largest one ever seen), a entire hive fleet or the strength of a necron dynastie to conquer it. A Black Crusade could do the job, but they would face an even greater resistence from anything that breath on that planet.

Or a way to make the sun go nova.

Also the most powerful fleet in the entire Imperium.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sun going Nova would work! Or just piece together a C'tan and just let it eat the sun.

Or throw a moon at the planet with a very large mass driver. Or unleash a crap ton of von Neumann machines.

A ork WAAAAAGHHH with looted Tyranid hive ships and looted necrons....

To take Terra, even a giant hive fleet would not, such a waste of bio mass, the defenses are insane, and reinforcement would come at max priority, even above inquisition orders, Terra is king.

Plus the giant fleets, grey knights, star fortress plural and countless orbital and ground based defence platforms.

And reinforcements is anything in range, thousands of marines, billions of guard, plus terras own most like high end equipped regiments

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
I'm gonna say Cypher. By himself.

But only because he seems to commonly be thought to be working to eventually maybe assassinate the emperor for "reasons." Since he's shrouded in mystery and no one seems to know what he's doing, this could obviously be completely wrong, but I like imagining he could sneak in if anyone could. I mean... he's got like... a plasma pistol AND a bolt pistol. With that sort of wargear I can't imagine he'd lose. You know?

You don't get it:
Cypher can try, but our new Inquisitorial operative "agent Marbo" has been ready in the throne room since he decided that he wouldn't share a codex with the Taurox.

I'm betting that both of them could just bro-team their way to running the galaxy by discreetly replacing the Emperor, with a demo charge, 3 pistols, and the power of plot and mystery.

NauticalKendall wrote:
So, just like the title says, who out of all the current playable factions could defeat the humans guarding Terra? Why? How?

Who? => The Nightbringer / The Void Dragon / The Outsider
Why? => There's life.
How? => The most powerful corporeal beings will find a way. NB could just tear the planet apart.

DaPino wrote:
My top 3 would be:
1) Tyranids
2) Necrons
3) Orks

There reason is simple, training. Now, this might seem weird but bear with me.
Space marines are vastly better trained than any Gaunt, Warrior or Boy. Their martial proficiency vastly surpasses any of three said races because they endured years upon years of vigorous training to hone their skills, and that is exactly what puts them at disadvantage against factions like Tyranids, Necrons and Orks.

If we look at history, we can see that armies were, for the most part, equipped with sword & shield. First of all, it was a simple yet efficient combination of weapons. Secondly, and this was even more important, swords and shield required less skill to use than other weapon (like say an axe or a two-hander). You could train a larger number of people to be more skilled with their weapon in a smaller amount of time.
Let's translate that to 40K.

On one side we have space marines. They are recruited from among the best warriors of humanity. This means that they can't just take whomever they want and turn him into a space marine. These humans have to be born, raised and trained even then it might not be enough.

Then they have to bio-engineer him to turn him into a super-human which takes considrable time and after all of this is done they are 'initiates'. They have to undergo more training and will probably serve in a scout squad before being a full-fledged battle-brother.

Let's look at the other races now.
Tyranids: Biological engineered to be ready for battle the minute they leave the birthing pools. Their training is hard-wired into their very being. They don't require a lot to be produced, only bio-mass, which can be replenished.
Necrons: Just like the Tyranids, their training is hard-wired into them. They've got superior weaponry and they're immensely durable.
Orks: What training? They just mass-reproduce and fight.

In the end, an assault on Terra would be a war of attrition, and humanity does not have the capability to produce combat-ready military froces at a speed that can keep up with these races.

I guess Necrons are 'repairing' rather than 'producing' troops but the result would be the same.

All of these look good, but ultimately, the Imperium just has to hold them off until something else kills them (either reinforcements, or watever else just pops out of this grimdark universe).
IMO, defeating terra would require two things: defeating everything else first, or a speedy exterminatus (like it's been mentioned DA or Necrons could).

The stupidest thing is that if ever the chaos gods got their gak going, they could probably destroy Terra in a second: another ruinstorm to cut off reinforcements, the favor of the Dark Gods to instantly bring an enormous fleet in through the warp, 5 or 6 different exterminatus attacks on the entire system, and then a huge invasion and daemons everywhere (hell, a few virus bombs and the appropriate rites and the place should be crawling with Nurgle daemons) to mop up.
Voilà!

Maybe if Vect launched a subversive invasion under the cover of a Black Crusade that made it to Terra under Abaddons command or a hivefleet that comes in from the side of the galaxy itself.

Basically if one faction took the opportunity to piggyback off an existing invasions effort.

I feel like the only faction that might be able to do it alone would be Necrons through superior tech and numbers, but only if they all woke up and worked together for that one purpose which seems uncharacteristic. Course, theyd have to eventually in order to take the whole galaxy.

I kind of wished Shon'tu's hive-ship-space-hulk had hit Terra. I think it would have been a nice addition to the setting if the nid incursion was defeated, BUT with genestealers and genestealer cults present on Terra causing a rise in paranoia within the Sol System resulting in purges of the population where ever a suspected cult may be hidden. Just adding to the whole "we are so fethed" impression the Imperium is supposed to have.

If the orks united under one leader it be over. This has been said many times. They control more space than any other race. Even space humans havnt been yet.

That many orks would be unstoppable. And they would pound the planet first with so many rokks, it be rubble before they made planet fall.

They already control space near terra, so they are the closest threat with already a close foot hold

epronovost wrote:
Here is what I think we got has defence on Terra itself.

300 Custodians (basically heroic Space Marines)

At least one company of Imperial Fist (so a 100 Space Marine or so)

3 Preceptory of SoB (so about 3000 Sisters)

millions if not billions of PDF troopers and billions of Frateris Millitia.

A few thousand Scions.

Several of the largest and most heavily armed forteress.

To destroy all this, you would need a huge army, with immense ressources and a lot of determination. Terra is probably the most heavily defended world in the galaxy with only possible competition T'au, Cadia or Armageddon. You would need a Waaagh! the size of Ghazkull (the largest one ever seen), a entire hive fleet or the strength of a necron dynastie to conquer it. A Black Crusade could do the job, but they would face an even greater resistence from anything that breath on that planet.

With that said, just how comparative would the T'au home world be to the defenses on Terra? Quite interesting really, possibly even the same level of defenses? Thoughts?

Imperial's would have to destroy themselves before anyone could get to Terra... except if all the Necrons woke up, or if a decent amount of Tyranids made it at the same time.

I think that the scenerio is more of a "if they somehow had the oppurtunity" rather than who would defeat the Imperium back to Terra.

The Necrons have the best chance of winning quickly thanks to their excellent space-borne warfare and resilience on the ground. A massive Necron invasion force could conquer the solar system itself by overpowering the IoM fleets.

Winning on the ground would be harder as both Mars and Terra are extremely tough nuts to crack, but the Necrons are formdiable in every theatre of war and they can certainly out-tech the IoM. However, the IoM will funnel almost endless resources into the system so the Necrons would in many ways find themselves in a similar position to Horus; win and win fast, or be overwhelmed by reinforcements and then pushed out of the system.



The Tyranids would go with a different approach. The Hive Fleets stripmine the galaxy as they go, and by the time they reach Terra enormous swathes of the galaxy will be nothing but airless wasteland.

The IoM will bleed itself dry trying to fight the invasion across the galaxy, all the while their ability to call in reinforcements gradually diminishes across all fronts as there are fewer and fewer worlds to produce new soldiers and new weapons.

Terra itself might hold out for centuries, but without reinforcements and resupply eventually Terra's resources will run out and the last bastion of the IoM will be overwhelmed. It could take a thousand years, but the Tyranids care nothing for time.


Everyone else falls into the same category as the Necrons, but are less well equipped to pull it off because they lack the combination of speed, punch and resilience that the Necrons bring in every facet of their warfare.



Why would anyone other than Chaos actually want to conquer Terra though?

i'm biased, but the mechanicum could.
We 'aint going to but we could.
Your defenders can only fight for as long as they have ammo and weapons and robots only need built and programmed!

Alternative plan: give everyone on terra a plasmagun, drop in a captured defiler and watch humanity 'get hot!'.

The easy answer is Necrons, as they have a machine that can make a sun go super nova, but they don't use it because reasons.

In terms of actually fighting their way there I believe only necrons (if they were all awakened at the same time and unified (unlikely)), Orks (If the entire Ork population of the universe decided to WAAAGH to Terra (Not even remotely possible)), or Tyranids (if several hivefleets converged on Terra simultaneously (the most likely scenario/culprit imo)) could pull it off.

Why would anyone other than Chaos actually want to conquer Terra though?

The Nids are drawn by the astropaths I believe.

Choas marines might want to take terra, as it could be highly symbolic, but it will never happen as the chaos gods wouldn't allow it. They have no reason to do so, and in some cases it would actually harm them.

Without the imperium there would be a lot less war, plagues, change and whatever Slaanesh is into. The Imperium is basically acts as fuel for the Chaos gods.