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Hey guys,

Haven't been on in awhile but I was wondering if anyone could nitpick this list and see if there's any room for improvement. It is a 1500 point list for a campaign I am doing at a local GW store and need something that can really break open any army.

Chaos Lord
mark of khorne
sword of anti-heroes
talisman of preservation
dawnstone
juggernaut mount

Exalted Hero
BSB
mark of tzeentch
War Banner

Chaos Sorcerer
mark of tzeentch
dispel scroll
shrieking blade

20 Chaos Warriors
mark of tzeentch
shields
full command

3 Skullcrushers
musician
ensorcelled weapons

Hellcannon

Again any help would be greatly appreciated thank you in advance!

As it's just a local tournament I wouldn't sweat some of the stuff people will pick apart like the absence of chaff but a couple things just rub me the wrong way.

For example your wizard is marked tzeentch, which normally I don't hate so long as you take lord of metal but at 1500pts it's not worth it. I generally don't use marks at all for that matter in under 2000pt games. I'm going to rewrite your list based on what you seem to own with maybe one or two things you don't.

Also I just realized your list isn't valid. Skullcrushers and hellcanon won't fit in 1500 pt list.


Sorceror Lord: Sword of Swift Slaying; Enchanted Shield; Talisman of Preservation; Dispel Scroll; Chaos Familiar; Level 4 Wizard 395

Exalted Hero: Sword of Striking; Dragonhelm; Dawnstone; Scaled Skin; Battle Standard 205

20 Chaos Warriors: Standard of Discipline; shield; halberds; Aspiring Champion; musician; standard bearer 405

4 Skullcrushers of Khorne: ensorcelled weapons; musician 322

1,327 points
About 170 pts to mess with. Maybe a gotebeast chariot if you have one?

 Mordred wrote:
Also I just realized your list isn't valid. Skullcrushers and hellcanon won't fit in 1500 pt list.

Yep, Rares are still restricted to 25%, despite all the other categories going to at least 50%

If you're interested, GoC, here's a gentle tweaking of your list that keeps the models more or less the same:

 GloryofChaos wrote:
Chaos Lord
mark of khorne
sword of anti-heroes
talisman of preservation
dawnstone
juggernaut mount

Jugger Lord! Really the only problem here is that the dawnstone is illegal - he can't have two talismans - so that's easily fixed by dropping it. I'd grab a charmed shield, for extra protection against cannon snipes, that 1+ armor, and to match the lovely jugger lord model You have many options for the magic weapon, but I think SoAH is a solid one, as even one enemy character kicks it up drastically.

Exalted Hero
BSB
mark of tzeentch
War Banner

The Warbanner is of little use in 8E (thanks to Steadfast mostly), so I'd drop that on principle. More so, you want defense on this lad. A simple way to get there would be scaled skin + shield, and if you've got the points then the dawnstone here wouldn't be a bad idea. 2+ armor, 5+ parry save, and possibly rerolled failed armors makes him nice and solid.

Chaos Sorcerer
mark of tzeentch
dispel scroll
shrieking blade

I think you should keep some magic in the list, but a single spell will virtually never be cast, except on IF, and even then you can be hampered by spell selection. Thankfully Metal has a great signature that HARD counters much of the meta. I'd juice this guy up to level 2, select Metal magic, and probably drop the shrieking blade. Enchanted shield is a solid plan (for 2+ armor), or even talisman or protection if you have the points and/or don't want your sorcerer model having a shield.

20 Chaos Warriors
mark of tzeentch
shields
full command

My only comment is that 20+2 characters makes for an awkward unit size, but I'm guessing you're running 5-wide for full on Turtle Mode? If you have the points, keep the extra warriors around for wounds I suppose. Otherwise I'd consider trimming to 19 or 18.

Hellcannon

So yea, the hellcannon needs to go, replaced by ~200 points of a cool, smashy Special choice most likely. You have loads of options - gorebeast chariot, ogres, drogres, trolls, budget chimera, etc. It's up to your preference really, the unit is there to a) make the list legal (you need 3+ units); b) smash things, particularly against the warrior anvil; c) add delicious flavor. My vote is probably for 3x drogres (w/ gw if you can afford), partially because of the Swiftstride. If you go for something cheaper (4x trolls run 2-wide?), you could get some warhounds in the list, which would be appreciated.

- Salvage

Hey guys thanks for the great feedback. Here is my new revised list with the tips you guys gave me:

Chaos Lord
mark of khorne
sword of anti-heroes
talisman of preservation
juggernaut mount
charmed shield

3 Skullcrushers
musician
ensorcelled weapons

The idea is that these two will ride together on the flank and kill anything nearby. Eventually I want them to charge anything in combat with the warriors and/or kill some monstrous creatures wandering around.

Exalted Hero
BSB
mark of tzeentch
dawnstone
shield
scaled skin
shrieking blade

Chaos Sorcerer
level 2 mastery
mark of tzeentch
talisman of protection
dispel scroll
enchanted shield

26 Chaos Warriors
mark of tzeentch
shields
full command

This unit as well as the sorcerer and the BSB will be together and'll most likely turtle up and be the anvil like you said. The idea is to draw the largest unit they have towards them and then hit them with the skullcrushers from the flanks. I gave the BSB shrieking blade so he and the unit cause fear and he has a +1 save. Sorcerer is in there to cause some mayhem with Lore of Metal while being protected by 26 warriors. The reason I chose 26 is I had about 70 points leftover and wanted to beef this unit up a bit more so it can take more hits and have ranks. I currently use them 6 wide so were looking at 4+ ranks with command and a BSB so most likely they aren't going anywhere.

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Chaos Warhounds

These warhounds are just going to run around and get into anything that doesn't want to be charged (ie artillery) or just charge block units so they cant flank my warriors. Overall the list comes out to 1499, what do you think?

Welcome back GoC! I just sent an hour writing you a monster response, so here's the reader's digest version.

First up, this dude?

 GloryofChaos wrote:
Exalted Hero
BSB
mark of tzeentch
dawnstone
shield
scaled skin
shrieking blade

Drop the shrieking blade, let him enjoy a 5+ parry save for no extra points. If you really want Fear, Hideous Visage is a cheap 5 points

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Chaos Warhounds

I ran your points, and you actually need to drop the shrieking blade and a pack of warhounds to hit 1499.

Here's the bigger problem: I'm not sure the army projects much of a threat, as it's just two units - a slow deathstar that isn't particularly fighty, but can't really reach out and kill things outside combat, except with two Metal spells (likely Searing Doom, maybe Final Trans); and a fast hammer unit that, despite being able to obliterate whatever it hits, is also frenzied, making it easy to lead around and limit the points it can make back. There's also the one chaff unit, but it will die immediately, being the only soft target. And just in general, more units makes for a more involved game of Warhams, as you've got more things moving and can feel a bit more in control, which you won't really running this list.

So how to fix? More units that matter, obviously, but I don't think there are points, without breaking into the Juggerstar or the Warriorstar. Drop those four extra warriors and we've got 69 points to work with. Let's grab those second dogs back, so now you might be able to play the chaff game. 39 points to go. If you can't have more killy units, you can reach out and kill stuff a little better. Lore of Tzeentch is a blaster lore, but you're going to need more spells so you can reach Gateway (and you want Gateway). Thankfully you've got Chaos Familiar! Grab that and you've got an awesome 14 points for whatever. Hideous Visage + Ironcurse on the BSB merhaps?

Hope that helps, trying to help you avoid the deathstar hole that WoC falls into hard at lower points.

- Salvage

Thanks for the advice Boss! I have been thinking about what you mentioned and realized that after a recent game with this list that went awfully, Juggernauts failed their 7 inch charge with a 1-1-2 , I need some more blocks of infantry to give more maneuverability. I figured I would do that by cutting back the Lord unit and his skullcrushers and bring just heroes, another unit of warriors, and a hellcannon to give me some fire support. Could you give me some advice on this new revised list?

Chaos Sorcerer
level 2 mastery
mark of tzeentch
third eye of tzeentch
dispel scroll
charmed shield

18 Chaos Warriors
full command
shields
mark of tzeentch

The idea is here is to have the sorcerer be the general and run around in the non-halberd warriors. This way he will have some protection and to zap any nearby units with tzeentch or lore of metal. Hopefully with the channeling staff and scroll he will be able to get off some mean spells or buff his unit before they get to combat.

Exalted Hero:
BSB
shield
hideous visage
mark of tzeentch
scaled skin

Exalted Hero
mark of tzeentch
enchanted shield
talisman of endurance
great weapon

18 Chaos Warriors
full command
shields
halberds
mark of tzeentch

Since we dropped the Juggerlord and his retinue i decided to put the BSB and this hero in the halberd regiment so we can have a decent sized hard hitting units. Now we have two 20 man units running around and makes for many more targets for any nasty spells or artillery.

5 Chaos Warhounds

Hellcannon

Wanted a hellcannon to give some fire support and had some extra points so i threw a 7 strong unit of dogs to charge block/tie up units.

1500

Overall I feel like this might be more what we are looking for when you mean more units and an army that poses a threat. Figured two 18 man units with characters in them being buffed by the lord if possible and with heroes taking challenges or tearing through the regiment. Then backed up with a hellcannon that can target units like swordmasters or maybe a terrorgheist. Thanks again for all the feedback you are giving me Boss!

GoC! So funny thing about the new list, it looks a lot like my 7E/8E 1500 pointer, with two warrior blocks + hellcannon + friends rampaging their way to victory. Worked for me at those points, but then I also never fired the HC, preferring to crush things in combat instead ...

Is it better than the last one? It certainly is heartier and easier to control, and if you're aggressive with everything you'll be able to catch and brutalize some things still. Nice thing about the hellcannon is that if you do hold your blocks back, you'll be able to threat a little bit from there, chunking soulfire into things.

Here are a few specific thoughts:

 GloryofChaos wrote:
Chaos Sorcerer
level 2 mastery
mark of tzeentch
third eye of tzeentch
dispel scroll
charmed shield

Third Eye does very little on this guy, as he's just got a 6+ ward as is, and I'd swap the charmed shield to an enchanted shield. I really want Chaos Familiar + Lore of Tzeentch on this guy so you can throw blaster spells down field, so instead of grabbing a Talisman of Protection I'd try to dig up points across the list first.

Exalted Hero
mark of tzeentch
enchanted shield
talisman of endurance
great weapon

He can't use a shield while lumberjacking with his great weapon, so I'd just drop the e-shield (and let the sorcerer use it). Some people will say you should use a halberd to take advantage of that sweet initiative ... but S7 is pretty awesome, so meh. If you have the points, a thought would be to take burning body + halberd on this dude, so he can bash off regen and let his warriors tear things apart after him. Also, I would likely run this guy in the shield dudes most the time, so they have some killing power as well as staying power. The halberd guys don't really need the help, they are the best core in Warhammer for a reason

... had some extra points so i threw a 7 strong unit of dogs to charge block/tie up units.

As noted above, I'd really like to see chaos familiar on the sorcerer, and maybe burning body on the choppy exalted. And if you have even more points, maybe talisman of protection on the sorcerer - hideous visage on the BSB can be dropped if you need some points, it's not super important for WS5 warriors.

- Salvage