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I was wonder if the effectso from this stay till the end of the rounder or are gone when the canoptek spider is killed?
As stated in the book (p. 108) "...benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule until the start of the controlling player's next movement phase."

I have been playing them as when the canoptek spyder dies the rule ends but, after reading it over again it seems it is granted for the turn regardless the canoptek spyder being alive or not.
Obviously on the next round he's not there to grant anymore the special rule/benefits.

If this has been posted before please link and I will close this thread.

It's perfectly ambiguous.

Either A)
The spider gives it once ..Zzap, now they have that rule until the next turn.

Or B)
For the turn, the spider is continually giving out the rule, so when it dies (or they move out of range) there is nothing causing them to benefit from the rules.

There is no definitive answer RAW. As far as i remember, I don't have the codex on me atm, but i remember discussing it before. Just discuss it pregame.

"At the start of each of the controlling player's Movement phases, choose one of the following special rules:...."

Start of each movement phase is when you choose the special rule and when this rule takes effect.

"The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation within 12" of the Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule....."

The Spyder and all units in the formation that are 12" or closer now gain that special rule that was chosen at the start of movement phase. Is there anything else that is needed to know?

"...until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase."

they gain the benefit of the chose rule, that was picked at the start of the movement phase until the controlling player's next Movement phase.



Another words since the rule says it happens at the start of the Movement phase and last until the next Movement phase, It isn't a continuous checking to see if units are within 12" of the spyder because the rule takes effect at the start of the Movement phase and only checks that 12" range when you choose it and not constantly. Unlike the command trait target priority that does not have a stated "start time" or "end time" it is constantly checking that range.

The problem is "benefit from". If they gained the rule, why not just say they gain it? Since they're just benefiting from the rule, and the benefit is being "aura'd" from the Spyder, then being out of 12" of the Spyder would no longer include you in the Aura. This is the same as an Ork model within range of a Kustom Force Field gaining an Invulnerable save, but once the model with the KFF is gone, then they're no longer in range. They were just benefiting from a 5+ INV, they didn't gain a 5+ INV.

I also find it ambiguous.

 Yarium wrote:
The problem is "benefit from". If they gained the rule, why not just say they gain it? Since they're just benefiting from the rule, and the benefit is being "aura'd" from the Spyder, then being out of 12" of the Spyder would no longer include you in the Aura. This is the same as an Ork model within range of a Kustom Force Field gaining an Invulnerable save, but once the model with the KFF is gone, then they're no longer in range. They were just benefiting from a 5+ INV, they didn't gain a 5+ INV.

I also find it ambiguous.

Well, the argument of a unit only gaining the benefit of a rule is pointless in itself. Rules specify that a model with this special rule, yadda yadda, and if they don't actually have it, benefitting from it wouldn't actually do anything.

But yeah, it needs to be FAQed to state what they intended on this formation, just like if you can use 3 spyder in the formation or not. Hurry up, GW, I want my FAQ already.

I would like to point out, GW has ruled on similar issues, that you check range, only when the bonus is used. For example, a squad of Wraiths get shot at and take some Wounds. You check to see if they are within 12" of the spyder. If yes, roll RP. If not you have some dead wraiths.

Please note, that this is HIWPI.

 Happyjew wrote:
I would like to point out, GW has ruled on similar issues, that you check range, only when the bonus is used. For example, a squad of Wraiths get shot at and take some Wounds. You check to see if they are within 12" of the spyder. If yes, roll RP. If not you have some dead wraiths.

Please note, that this is HIWPI.

which rules did they point this out on? Wasn't aware that they said something before.

 Happyjew wrote:
I would like to point out, GW has ruled on similar issues, that you check range, only when the bonus is used. For example, a squad of Wraiths get shot at and take some Wounds. You check to see if they are within 12" of the spyder. If yes, roll RP. If not you have some dead wraiths.

Please note, that this is HIWPI.

I don't/hanven't read this as a range check for every wound. This way sounds much more like the Hive mind check that needs unites to be in a range or they get different effects.
The guys in the shop all seem to be ok with it being on any unit that started in the 12 bubble. The only debate, and i use that VERY loosely, is weather on not the the bubble dies with the spider.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
The problem is "benefit from". If they gained the rule, why not just say they gain it? Since they're just benefiting from the rule, and the benefit is being "aura'd" from the Spyder, then being out of 12" of the Spyder would no longer include you in the Aura. This is the same as an Ork model within range of a Kustom Force Field gaining an Invulnerable save, but once the model with the KFF is gone, then they're no longer in range. They were just benefiting from a 5+ INV, they didn't gain a 5+ INV.

I also find it ambiguous.

Well, the argument of a unit only gaining the benefit of a rule is pointless in itself. Rules specify that a model with this special rule, yadda yadda, and if they don't actually have it, benefitting from it wouldn't actually do anything.

But yeah, it needs to be FAQed to state what they intended on this formation, just like if you can use 3 spyder in the formation or not. Hurry up, GW, I want my FAQ already.

Book says it clearly on that. Canoptek Harvest has 1 Canoptek Spyder 1 unit Canoptek Wraiths and 1 unit of Canoptek Scarbs. Unless they made the same typo 2 times in the book; p 62 & 108; then they mean 1 spyder. Any more and you would have 3 Scarbs jumping on the board every turn and this 1 foot bubble now being 3 foot. If they did/do rule this way omg has this became the most amazing unit ever! lol

grimpunx wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I would like to point out, GW has ruled on similar issues, that you check range, only when the bonus is used. For example, a squad of Wraiths get shot at and take some Wounds. You check to see if they are within 12" of the spyder. If yes, roll RP. If not you have some dead wraiths.

Please note, that this is HIWPI.

I don't/hanven't read this as a range check for every wound. This way sounds much more like the Hive mind check that needs unites to be in a range or they get different effects.
The guys in the shop all seem to be ok with it being on any unit that started in the 12 bubble. The only debate, and i use that VERY loosely, is weather on not the the bubble dies with the spider.

Sorry, but the wording of the rule in no way indicates that you only check to see who benefits at the start of the turn

"At the start of each of the controlling player’s Movement phases, choose one of the following special rules: Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, Shred."

This indicates when you choose what benefit the Adaptive Subroutines special rule will give the unit.

"The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation within 12" of the Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule..."

This lists the requirements for the unit to be affected. Note that the requirement is that they be within 12" of the spyder, not within 12" of the spyder '... at the start of the turn.' or any other specific point at time. Therefore it is an ongoing requirement for the unit to be affected.

"... until the start of the controlling player’s next Movement phase."

This is the duration of the rule, as long as the requirement for the rule is met. It does not allow the unit to benefit if they're not within 12" of the spyder.

Cutting it up into tiny slices makes it seems more complicated than it is. To me it reads like saying that all of those units within 12" of the spyder benefit until your next movement phase. It doesn't say "benefit until your next movement phase so long as they stay within 12" of the spyder", which is how it should be worded for it to work like some others are suggesting.

We're in the army. I'm a general and I say: "All soldiers in this room are dismissed and can sleep until morning!" Does that mean that the soldiers have to stay in the room to be allowed to sleep until morning? No, of course not. It means all the soldiers there can now go sleep until morning. Same thing with the formation, it's elementary rules of English.

GHz broke it down, the rule is checked at the start of the turn if you are within 12" then you pick a rule and get it until the start of your next turn. It could not be more simple, nothing states or even implies you have to go back to check again later so you don't.

Book says it clearly on that. Canoptek Harvest has 1 Canoptek Spyder 1 unit Canoptek Wraiths and 1 unit of Canoptek Scarbs. Unless they made the same typo 2 times in the book; p 62 & 108; then they mean 1 spyder. Any more and you would have 3 Scarbs jumping on the board every turn and this 1 foot bubble now being 3 foot. If they did/do rule this way omg has this became the most amazing unit ever! lol

The issue being there is no data slate for a Canoptek Spyder, only for a Canoptek Spyder UNIT, so it must be referring to that (or it refers to literally nothing), what restrictions are there? Oh none so I can select any upgrades to that unit that I wish including 1-2 extra Spyders...

This is the issue it should say Canoptek Spyder Unit and restrictthat unit to 1 model. By not doing that they have created ambiguity as either it is a typo missing the word unit, or it is not referring to an existent unit, or it is a typo missing the word unit and a complete sentence in the restrictions. Now I personally play it as only 1 Spyder for my Crons as that is what I think they meant (so they typoed a missing word unit and an entire restriction) and is the most conservative interpretation. But let's not pretend it lacks ambiguity.