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My group of buddies are starting up a 40k slow grow league and as the only guy who has to start again from scratch, I've chosen to go with something different and chose not to buy any GW minis and use Mantic Forge Fathers as Squats.

I have no clue what codex suits them best.

I don't think Guard as the majority of guys are T3 in the book and Squats were all T4 in 2nd ed.

Orks are an option, but we already have an Ork player.

We also have an Eldar Player and the rest are Chaos Marine Players.

Any help or opinions?

Skiitari. They're t3 too but have fnp and 4+ armor base.

I'd say the allies matrix is your friend. Using them as space marines base is always pretty ridiculous when most of your guys are obviously wearing flak armour and carrying lasguns. Even bolter scouts might be difficult to get enough bolter models.

I'd start with a base of either IG or Death Korps, and then ally in a marine force to provide you with bikers and terminators (exo-squats). Dark Angels would obviously provide both of these, but Wolf Guard can be quite good as they ca take drop pods (tunnelling vehicles).

EDIT - actually, having a think about the Manic models - the Skiarii option might work quite well. The usual issue with totally counts-as armies is weapons and keeping everything WYSIWYG. Squats always used bolters, lasguns and plasma guns, and the Forge Father weapons are much weirder looking. But that might actually work very well for Skitarii!

I can't see the squats using anything like the Sydonian models or the Dunestriders, b basic Skitarii regiments would be a good fit for the Stormrage Vets and Drakkarim models. Either ally in some sort of marine faction to give you access to the bigger Mantic models like their not-dreadnoughts and not-thunderfire cannons, or wait til the legio cybernetica stuff becomes 40k-approved. You don't need bikers or terminator/exo-squats anyway as the Mantic range doesn't have anything like that.

It won't be the most accurate historically speaking, more of a 'new interpretation' of squats, but it might work best with the Mantic range.

.

I think the forge father minis would work best as marines. Definitely go with something imperial, as allies will allow you to make a much more diverse army and represent the squats better!

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I'd say the allies matrix is your friend. Using them as space marines base is always pretty ridiculous when most of your guys are obviously wearing flak armour and carrying lasguns. Even bolter scouts might be difficult to get enough bolter models.

I'd start with a base of either IG or Death Korps, and then ally in a marine force to provide you with bikers and terminators (exo-squats). Dark Angels would obviously provide both of these, but Wolf Guard can be quite good as they ca take drop pods (tunnelling vehicles).

EDIT - actually, having a think about the Manic models - the Skiarii option might work quite well. The usual issue with totally counts-as armies is weapons and keeping everything WYSIWYG. Squats always used bolters, lasguns and plasma guns, and the Forge Father weapons are much weirder looking. But that might actually work very well for Skitarii!

I can't see the squats using anything like the Sydonian models or the Dunestriders, b basic Skitarii regiments would be a good fit for the Stormrage Vets and Drakkarim models. Either ally in some sort of marine faction to give you access to the bigger Mantic models like their not-dreadnoughts and not-thunderfire cannons, or wait til the legio cybernetica stuff becomes 40k-approved. You don't need bikers or terminator/exo-squats anyway as the Mantic range doesn't have anything like that.

It won't be the most accurate historically speaking, more of a 'new interpretation' of squats, but it might work best with the Mantic range.

.

I have a small Skitarii Force and they definitely won't work as Squats.

Too fast, still not tough enough and their rules are a little too exotic for what is a people that are nearly extinct.

Also no HQs to represent the Warlord, Ancient and Ancestor.

I have a small Skitarii Force and they definitely won't work as Squats.

Too fast, still not tough enough and their rules are a little too exotic for what is a people that are nearly extinct.

Also no HQs to represent the Warlord, Ancient and Ancestor.

Cool - so are you looking to do Squats like they would have been in 2ed, but just use the Forge Father models, or a totally new thing?

It gets quite difficult as the FF models are massively armoured compared to what Squats actually had. An 'accurate' squat army would have T4 guardsmen in flak armour with lasguns, supported by heavy bolters, plasma guns and imperial artillery pieces (mole mortars, thudd guns), and then a load of bikers (including attack bikes) and a load of exo-squats.

If we ignore the T4, then DKoK Guard fits for the vast majority of that - Death Korps Engineers can be taken as troops, include mole mortars, take carapace armour (if you want to use the Mantic models) and emerge behind Hades Breaching Drills for tunnellers. They also have Iron Discipline, many Stubborn units, and access to the artillery pieces you need.

However, if you want T4, you're left with Marines, which *may* work for the Mantic models and their masses of armour, but won't work if you want them to be anything like the 2ed Squats. BS4, S4, I4 and 3+ saves are all not very Squatty! Scouts may be more believable, and can take Heavy Bolters, but no plasma. Your Iron Ancestors are Dreadnoughts, your Thudd Guns/Hailstorm Cannons are Thunderfire Cannon, tunnelling machines can be Drop Pods, and your FF character guy can be a Techmarine with a few extra bits. You'd need to do some converting if you want them to be WYSIWYG, but bolters are easy to get hold of! If you're going to do the whole army as Marines, I'd use either Dark Angels or Iron Hands. The only real difference is that DA don't get Scout Bikers, which wouldn't be a problem if you're using FF models, but the Stubborn might be useful.

I'm not sure Orks are a great match - even though their stat line is similar, there are so many crazy rules and weird weapons they won't have the feel of a Squat army.

Also, these models have been floating around for a while, and make good Squat tunnellers - http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=211

I tried a few codex and ended up going for Tau as it suited the robot and big suit heavy army I wanted to field.

Most people who use the marine codex take scouts as troops to represent the basic squats. Sure they have bolters, but the 3/3/4/4 profile is suitable different to a guardsman, and they only have carapace armour.

 ArbitorIan wrote:

I have a small Skitarii Force and they definitely won't work as Squats.

Too fast, still not tough enough and their rules are a little too exotic for what is a people that are nearly extinct.

Also no HQs to represent the Warlord, Ancient and Ancestor.

Cool - so are you looking to do Squats like they would have been in 2ed, but just use the Forge Father models, or a totally new thing?

It gets quite difficult as the FF models are massively armoured compared to what Squats actually had. An 'accurate' squat army would have T4 guardsmen in flak armour with lasguns, supported by heavy bolters, plasma guns and imperial artillery pieces (mole mortars, thudd guns), and then a load of bikers (including attack bikes) and a load of exo-squats.

If we ignore the T4, then DKoK Guard fits for the vast majority of that - Death Korps Engineers can be taken as troops, include mole mortars, take carapace armour (if you want to use the Mantic models) and emerge behind Hades Breaching Drills for tunnellers. They also have Iron Discipline, many Stubborn units, and access to the artillery pieces you need.

However, if you want T4, you're left with Marines, which *may* work for the Mantic models and their masses of armour, but won't work if you want them to be anything like the 2ed Squats. BS4, S4, I4 and 3+ saves are all not very Squatty! Scouts may be more believable, and can take Heavy Bolters, but no plasma. Your Iron Ancestors are Dreadnoughts, your Thudd Guns/Hailstorm Cannons are Thunderfire Cannon, tunnelling machines can be Drop Pods, and your FF character guy can be a Techmarine with a few extra bits. You'd need to do some converting if you want them to be WYSIWYG, but bolters are easy to get hold of! If you're going to do the whole army as Marines, I'd use either Dark Angels or Iron Hands. The only real difference is that DA don't get Scout Bikers, which wouldn't be a problem if you're using FF models, but the Stubborn might be useful.

I'm not sure Orks are a great match - even though their stat line is similar, there are so many crazy rules and weird weapons they won't have the feel of a Squat army.

Also, these models have been floating around for a while, and make good Squat tunnellers - http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=211

Basically, I'm trying to enhance what the 2nd ed rules were and still have the flavour of what the Squats were like.

I definitely want to use the drills in that link for Drop Pods as the Squats frequently used Moles and Termites according to the fluff.

My comparisons that I've come up with so far are:

Warlord - Chapter Master.
Engineer Forge Master - Master of the Forge.
Ancestor - Librarian.
Guildmaster - Captain.

Hearth Guard - Terminators.
Ancient - Dreadnought.
Venerable Ancient - Venerable Dreadnought.
Thunderers - Sternguard.

Warriors (Guildsmen) - Scouts.

Battle Trikes - Attack Bikes.
Bike Squadron - Scout Bikes.

Support Weapons (Mole Mortar) - Thunderfire Cannon.
Heavy Weapons (Annihilator Squad) - Devastators.
Land Raider.

Dedicated Transports
Rhino.
Termite - Drop Pod.

Orks! (Khorne was my first pick.)

Orks but make some mandatory upgrades and swap out some of the random weapons for reliable equivalents either from the rulebook or another codex. I'd keep the Get's Hot Stuff as they are Plasma equivalents but Shokk Atk, Bubble Chuka, Zzap, are the random stuff I mean.
For example all troops have the Eavy Armour upgrade meaning a base cost of 10pts each as well. Any other unit selection in the codex that only has the t-shirt save should also be upgraded to 4+ at it's 4pt per model price stated in the troop selection.
Drop the Ere We Go table and let the bosspole reroll leadership, you won't even need to change the ldr stats with this happening.
It would be a more expensive but more durable assault army with more reliable Hvy support and longer lasting fast attackers. Rest of the stuff that doesn't need to change (like the non-random weapons and vehicles) can just get a rename, even the Waaagh psyker powers can be renamed and fit well.

Puscifer wrote:
Basically, I'm trying to enhance what the 2nd ed rules were and still have the flavour of what the Squats were like
I definitely want to use the drills in that link for Drop Pods as the Squats frequently used Moles and Termites according to the fluff.

My comparisons that I've come up with so far are:

Warlord - Chapter Master.
Engineer Forge Master - Master of the Forge.
Ancestor - Librarian.
Guildmaster - Captain.

Hearth Guard - Terminators.
Ancient - Dreadnought.
Venerable Ancient - Venerable Dreadnought.
Thunderers - Sternguard.

Warriors (Guildsmen) - Scouts.

Battle Trikes - Attack Bikes.
Bike Squadron - Scout Bikes.

Support Weapons (Mole Mortar) - Thunderfire Cannon.
Heavy Weapons (Annihilator Squad) - Devastators.
Land Raider.

Dedicated Transports
Rhino.
Termite - Drop Pod.

That all makes sense to me. I think the Thunderfie Cannon would be easier being a Thudd Gun than a Mole Mortar .

I think, if you're going to build that range of troops, he biggest issue you'll have is the limitations of the FF range of models. There are a couple of different basic troop types, but they're all equally armoured - it's only really a change of pose and weapon that sets them apart. Swapping their weapons to GW versions is easy but it might be quite difficult to show which are power armoured and which are scout armoured on the table, and there's nothing in the range that looks so heavily armoured that it could be a terminator.

Weirdly, the two FF character models seem to be wearing LESS armour!!

I would use a marines codex with the forge father models. It might not perfectly capture the essence of old squats but that was so long ago who cares.

Ooooooo... Some good news.

I'm allowed to use the 4th ed Ork Dex, with some tweaks.

Thats actually pretty close to what they used to be like in 2nd ed.

Skitarii or Storm Troopers might be a good way to go but what about Tau?

Firewarriors as Squat warriors, Kroot as bezerkers, then crisis suits are either steam punk robot suits or trikes.