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Hey guys, just picked up a ton of new toys yesterday. Got the Hound's Tooth, 2 Kihraxz Fighters, a K-wing, and another most Wanted pack just to expand on my Scum even more. I'm excited to try all these new ships out, but I'm stumped on the K-wing.

What exactly would pair well with it? I'm thinking maybe have Wedge and Porkins (mainly cuz I haven't tried him yet) along side it, maybe replacing Porkins with Luke. Seems like it would have some decent firepower, but I dunno. I'm stumped as to what is going to go well and also feel like it fits with it.

How are you guys going to be running them?

I haven't picked mine up yet, but maybe pairing a few A-Wings with it as fast daggers and let the K-Wing be the hammer. With it's 360 firing arc, arc dodgers will find it to be a beast to deal with, and its tough enough to withstand a joust.

If I remember right, its got some serious maneuverability and speed as well, so maybe Y-Wings?

 Corpsman913 wrote:
I haven't picked mine up yet, but maybe pairing a few A-Wings with it as fast daggers and let the K-Wing be the hammer. With it's 360 firing arc, arc dodgers will find it to be a beast to deal with, and its tough enough to withstand a joust.

If I remember right, its got some serious maneuverability and speed as well, so maybe Y-Wings?

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing SLAM in action, but not being able to shoot afterwards is a little annoying (though completely fair mechanically). That's the only reason I don't wanna deck it out with a nice turret and crew members. I'm thinking it'll be better just SLAMing around dropping bombs.

I've been thinking about the K-Wing myself. Without SLAM it's quite a slow, ponderous beast with only a Hard 2 to really turn. With SLAM you can turn that into a long arc, or dart and weave through asteroids, but you can't shoot. It seems like a good way to drop bombs then get the hell out of the way.

I was considering trying Esege Tuketu w/Recon Specialist with Dutch Vander, since Vander would give a free target lock and Esege's two Focus could be shared or used accordingly. It kinda means having to tie the two together to be most useful, not so good if you need to SLAM for whatever reason.

I am looking forward to trying a kitted out Miranda alongside my usual Corran Horn shenanigans. She basically replaces the Han in my Han/Corran list.

 derek wrote:
I am looking forward to trying a kitted out Miranda alongside my usual Corran Horn shenanigans. She basically replaces the Han in my Han/Corran list.

Hmm, yeah Corran Horn is good, I might need to pick up a second E-wing then. Might run Miranda and 2 E-wings.

I'm not yet convinced either of the named pilots offer enough to warrant the increase in points.

The K Wing's primary role is as a secondary weapons platform, and neither pilot offers anything which assists that. In fact Miranda's could potentially work against it.

Contrast this with the two named Punisher pilots, one of which is a torp/missile specialist and the other has a bomb focus.

I mean sure, Miranda throwing 5 dice with an HLC at range 3 with no Ag bonuses is nice on paper, but with only 1 green dice themselves, the K Wngs are an easy target to focus down without you burning your own shields!

The second guy is contingent on being able to take an action, choosing to focus and then having another ship who needs to use it at a greater priority than him in range. Not an impossible scenario by any means, but, again, doesn't do anything to improve the role of the ship.

I'll try them out, but I suspect if I use the K regularly, it will be on a generic platform.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I mean sure, Miranda throwing 5 dice with an HLC at range 3 with no Ag bonuses is nice on paper, but with only 1 green dice themselves, the K Wngs are an easy target to focus down without you burning your own shields!

K-wings cannot equip a Heavy Laser Cannon.

Miranda has phenomenal staying power with Twin Laser Turret since it only gimps one of her two shots if used to regenerate a shield. TLT on it's own doesn't sound scary since it's damage is capped, but getting to perform it twice can ruin an Interceptor's day, forcing it burn evade and focus tokens. Also, she can across the board with surprising speed, but only expect that when she is sure not to get shot.

My bad, turret and cannon pics look very similar on casual inspection on the cards themselves.

Yes, Miranda may have incredible staying power with a TLT, but also negligible damage output and it still really doesn't do much for bombs, torps and missiles that seem to be the focus of the ship's role.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yes, Miranda may have incredible staying power with a TLT, but also negligible damage output and it still really doesn't do much for bombs, torps and missiles that seem to be the focus of the ship's role.

Her firepower isn't as flashy as a Phantom or HLC Dash, but it's consistent. Her consistent firepower combined with her durability means she's dangerous.

Besides, TLT only works at range 2-3. At range 1, she's rolling three dice with the potential for four using her ability. On top of that, she has the ability to SLAM to get herself out of a hairy situation if need be.

There isn't a huge deal of consistency when the TLT still has to hit, and is no more likely to hit than any other 3 dice attack, and you're trading the possibility of landing three damage for a possible chance to land another one.

It's not an awful gun, especially as almost all of the turrets have some sort of downside/drawback, but I don't think it's going to be quite the consistent damage dealer you seem to think.

It will be very useful to allow Miranda to regen shields though, that is true.

It's reliable even though capped because with two attacks, it is less likely to miss entirely. That means even though it is capped at two (and slightly lower damage cap than a single three dice attack), It has the same or better average damage output than a single three dice attack. The more red dice you roll more often, the more green dice the target has to roll and the higher the chance of those green dice failing. Red dice > green dice, every single time. Like already said, the more attacks there are, the more of a chance there is to strip focus and evade tokens. It also puts quite a damper on once per turn effects (like C-3PO in particular). TLT has a reliable point of damage per round on even the most agile arc-dodger (anyone that plays Fel will tell you how scary that is). Two Syndicate Thugs with TLT can put an average of 2-3 damage on a 63-point Han, after mitigation, and he doesn't have enough damage output to keep up. That means 24 points of of ship will easily kill one of the hardest to kill ships in the game. That doesn't even take into consideration that K-wings and Y-wings can both take Conner Nets...

This has nothing to do with my opinion, this is what the math says about it.

Never tell me the odds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But seriously, firstly the thread is about the K Wing, not the TLT, and secondly two Thugs with cannons is 48 points.

Miranda might be quite good with the R2-D2 crew for some shield manipulation hijinx, still not sold on the TFT, it might be more consistent over time but sometimes you need those nasty 3 (or 4 in her case) damage hits that a well set up Blaster Turret can give.

Also its a little odd that neither named really helps with bombs/torps/missles as those slots will have been factored into the base cost, yes Miranda can fire off that 6 dice APT, but outside of magical christmas land its not much help, I think Advanced SLAM will be the thing for both of them, as being able to effectively pull a white 180 whilst dropping a bomb or setting up an action for later turns seems like it might have merit, although I think the choice will be bombs etc or turrets, using both is too many toys not enough ships

I'm wondering what the best option for that free action actually is.

TL for a bomb orientated ship that can't use it until next turn isn't the best and Focus with 1 Ag isn't going to transform the game.

There's probably a good upgrade to combine with it, but I haven't spotted it yet.

 Azreal13 wrote:
But seriously, firstly the thread is about the K Wing, not the TLT, and secondly two Thugs with cannons is 48 points.

The K-wing can take the TLT, I said Miranda with the TLT is dangerous, you disagreed, I explained how good the TLT can be.

As to your second point, you and I both know that I made a typo.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Miranda might be quite good with the R2-D2 crew for some shield manipulation hijinx, still not sold on the TFT, it might be more consistent over time but sometimes you need those nasty 3 (or 4 in her case) damage hits that a well set up Blaster Turret can give.

R2-D2 is nice, but Miranda doesn't need him (or any other crew really). However, you should be sold on TLT because it's quite good. No, it won't break the game, but it's a serious threat. You're also missing the point of consistent damage... yeah, burst damage is sweet when you get it, but counting on consistent damage will net you a greater reward.

Also its a little odd that neither named really helps with bombs/torps/missles as those slots will have been factored into the base cost, yes Miranda can fire off that 6 dice APT, but outside of magical christmas land its not much help, I think Advanced SLAM will be the thing for both of them, as being able to effectively pull a white 180 whilst dropping a bomb or setting up an action for later turns seems like it might have merit, although I think the choice will be bombs etc or turrets, using both is too many toys not enough ships

Most builds with Miranda don't need Advanced SLAM but I could see how it could be useful.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
But seriously, firstly the thread is about the K Wing, not the TLT, and secondly two Thugs with cannons is 48 points.

The K-wing can take the TLT, I said Miranda with the TLT is dangerous, you disagreed, I explained how good the TLT can be.

As to your second point, you and I both know that I made a typo.

But illustrating how two of something on a completely different platform is good has no bearing on how good it is on the K Wing, I don't believe in the Mathammer, while I'm sure it's accurately calculated it makes no allowance for the fact that the Falcon is a faster ship with a better dial than the Y Wing, the fact that the Falcon won't just be sitting there taking the incoming fire without retaliation or what the other half of the list is doing.

Ys are already a decent platform, this is just another variation on the theme.

Oh, and no, I didn't know it was a typo, I just assumed you'd got your number wrong somewhere, as 24 and 48 are very difficult to mistype.

 Azreal13 wrote:
But illustrating how two of something on a completely different platform is good has no bearing on how good it is on the K Wing, I don't believe in the Mathammer, while I'm sure it's accurately calculated it makes no allowance for the fact that the Falcon is a faster ship with a better dial than the Y Wing, the fact that the Falcon won't just be sitting there taking the incoming fire without retaliation or what the other half of the list is doing.

Mathwing isn't the end all, be all in X-Wing, something that I have argued many times on this forum. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's still worth taking into consideration.

You disagreed about the TLT, I proved to you that you were wrong, and now you don't "believe" math (which doesn't require belief to be true, by the way). It does have a bearing on how good it is on the K-wing, like I've already explained: Miranda flies a beefy ship with nine HPs, she has an awesome regeneration mechanic (that unlike R2-D2, doesn't require you to move predictably), she can equip a range three turreted secondary weapon that deals consistent damage. All of those things combined makes her a dangerous ship that can survive the entire game, even with just a TLT equipped. Even better, any list you run her with leaves enough room to give her bombs, a crew, and probably a modification. Give her Jan Ors and turn her focus into an evade. Give her C-3PO and now she acts like a Falcon. You fit a fully loaded Miranda and Super Corran together (or leave munitions off of her and squeeze in a third ship). You can fit Super Dash and Miranda with TLT with seven points left over. Miranda and Chewie mesh really well together as well.

Ys are already a decent platform, this is just another variation on the theme.

Exactly. They're even better with TLT, but that's neither here nor there.

Oh, and no, I didn't know it was a typo, I just assumed you'd got your number wrong somewhere, as 24 and 48 are very difficult to mistype.

Clearly you understood that one Y-wing with TLT is 24 points, so two of them is 48. I'm well aware that ship isn't 12 points with a turret upgrade equipped. The sentence should have read, "That means two 24 point ships [...]," not, "That means 24 points of of ship [...]." Stop being obtuse.

I've never met you, so I can't assume anything about your mathematical ability or your knowledge of the game, and arguing that two ships with an approximately equal points cost can kill another ship in a vacuum doesn't really support the point you appeared to be trying to make?

Plus, you use mathwing to "prove me wrong" yet when I say "mathwing isn't everything" you agree?

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

I get where the TLT is strong, but I'm not sure the opportunity cost and points cost really make it quite as good as you seem to think.

Plus, it isn't the only option for the K Wing, is it?

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've never met you, so I can't assume anything about your mathematical ability or your knowledge of the game, and arguing that two ships with an approximately equal points cost can kill another ship in a vacuum doesn't really support the point you appeared to be trying to make?

That's what you're going with? Whatever dude, you know what I meant and you clearly understood it. We've had lots of pleasant interactions on this forum and via PM before, but if you want to act like a jerk just because, knock yourself out.

Plus, you use mathwing to "prove me wrong" yet when I say "mathwing isn't everything" you agree?

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

Since you're confused, here's a recap:

You said, "Miranda throwing 5 dice with an HLC at range 3"

I told you that the K-wing can't take a cannon upgrade, but TLT on Miranda is powerful

You claimed that the TLT has "negligible damage output"

I told you that isn't true

You then switched to, "it's not consistent enough"

I told you that it is consistent

You responded with, "I don't believe in math."

There is a huge difference between saying, "I don't believe in math," and, "math isn't the end all be all, but it's still important to consider."

I get where the TLT is strong, but I'm not sure the opportunity cost and points cost really make it quite as good as you seem to think.

Plus, it isn't the only option for the K Wing, is it?

It's the best option the ship can take and it makes the ship pretty damn good. Game breaking? No. Worthy of planning against? Absolutely.

Please, feel free to continue to discount it, I'm sure your opponent will enjoy beating you with it. Three Warden Squadron K-wings with TLT will ruin Soontir, Vader, Whisper, or Corran's day in a hurry.

There's a real disparity here between what I'm saying and what you're hearing.

How about we say you're queen of everything and call it even?

 Azreal13 wrote:
There's a real disparity here between what I'm saying and what you're hearing.

What you said:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I mean sure, Miranda throwing 5 dice with an HLC at range 3

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yes, Miranda may have incredible staying power with a TLT, but also negligible damage

 Azreal13 wrote:
There isn't a huge deal of consistency when the TLT still has to hit, and is no more likely to hit than any other 3 dice attack

 Azreal13 wrote:
I don't believe in the Mathammer

So what is it exactly that you are saying that somehow isn't coming across? Why isn't Miranda (or any other K-wing) not that good, even with TLT? When I offer you proof that it is pretty good, all you say is, "I just don't think it is," or, "I don't believe in the math," and, "it's not as good as you think it is" (which by the way, I don't think it's that good, but definitely good enough to be worried about if you plan on facing it often).

And to answer your question about what to use for the free action off of Advanced SLAM: drop mines or Conner Net.

How about we say you're queen of everything and call it even?

Yet another resort to snark, how unsurprising.

Not amazing at letting gak go are you?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
There's a real disparity here between what I'm saying and what you're hearing.

What you said:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I mean sure, Miranda throwing 5 dice with an HLC at range 3

An off the top of my head example which credited the ship with the wrong upgrade slot, which I conceded when you corrected me. What's your point?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yes, Miranda may have incredible staying power with a TLT, but also negligible damage

 Azreal13 wrote:
There isn't a huge deal of consistency when the TLT still has to hit, and is no more likely to hit than any other 3 dice attack

You then responded to the point of how consistent the TLT is on a K Wing with an example of how good it was on a different ship, two in fact.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I don't believe in the Mathammer

If you'd taken that in context, there's a whole bit where I go on to say that the inappropriate example may put damage on a Falcon in a vacuum but there's a whole load of other, non die related stuff in the mix that the maths doesn't account for.

In fact:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Mathwing isn't the end all, be all in X-Wing, something that I have argued many times on this forum.

So what is it exactly that you are saying that somehow isn't coming across? Why isn't Miranda (or any other K-wing) not that good, even with TLT? When I offer you proof that it is pretty good, all you say is, "I just don't think it is," or, "I don't believe in the math," and, "it's not as good as you think it is" (which by the way, I don't think it's that good, but definitely good enough to be worried about if you plan on facing it often).

I never even said that, my initial point was I wasn't sure the named pilots offered sufficient for the extra points and that their abilities don't necessarily synergise with the role of the ship. I also don't necessarily agree that the opportunity cost and points cost of the TLT make it quite as good as you seem to think it is. This is my opinion, no amount of maths is going to disprove my opinion that you think more of this upgrade than I do currently.

And to answer your question about what to use for the free action off of Advanced SLAM: drop mines or Conner Net.

How about we say you're queen of everything and call it even?

Yet another resort to snark, how unsurprising.

You're jumping down my throat for having a different opinion than yours, can you blame me.

We all know nature abhors a vacuum, but I for one didn't feel the one Peregrine left needed filling just yet.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not amazing at letting gak go are you?

And you are?

An off the top of my head example which credited the ship with the wrong upgrade slot, which I conceded when you corrected me. What's your point?

Why should I listen to your opinion on the K-wing when you don't even know what upgrades it can take? I mean, you're going to sit there say dumb gak like this:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've never met you, so I can't assume anything about your mathematical ability or your knowledge of the game

I thought I would return the favor.

You then responded to the point of how consistent the TLT is on a K Wing with an example of how good it was on a different ship, two in fact.

The damage done by the weapon is the same. The ship it's on does not matter. I used that as an example of the kind of damage it can put out, which you claimed was both negligible (it's not) and inconsistent (it's still not). Like I've said once before already, three K-wings with TLT are going to give any arc-dodging ace a really bad time. It will do well against something like that Falcon because it takes away the damage mitigation from C-3PO and the Falcon doesn't have enough damage output to survive long enough.

If you'd taken that in context, there's a whole bit where I go on to say that the inappropriate example may put damage on a Falcon in a vacuum but there's a whole load of other, non die related stuff in the mix that the maths doesn't account for.

That doesn't matter. When the math says that it's a worthy upgrade, it's a worthy upgrade. The TLT on the K-wing is good.

I never even said that, my initial point was I wasn't sure the named pilots offered sufficient for the extra points and that their abilities don't necessarily synergise with the role of the ship. I also don't necessarily agree that the opportunity cost and points cost of the TLT make it quite as good as you seem to think it is. This is my opinion, no amount of maths is going to disprove my opinion that you think more of this upgrade than I do currently.

The role of ship? The K-wing isn't just a munitions platform, you realize that right? Your opinion is that, on paper, Miranda and the TLT aren't as good as I think it is... How good do you think that I think it is? Because I've said at least three times that it's strong but not game breaking and definitely worth taking into consideration if your building a list. It isn't the best ship in the game, but it's pretty damn good.

You're jumping down my throat for having a different opinion than yours, can you blame me.

Jumping down your throat? You're one making a bunch of smart ass comments and now you're going to play the victim card? Get over yourself, man.

We all know nature abhors a vacuum, but I for one didn't feel the one Peregrine left needed filling just yet.

See above.


Lou can have your opinion the ship... I really don't care. You're basing it on how you "feel" about the points for this and that, and that's fine. I still would suggest not underestimating the ship if you play against it though.

You both need to chill, because you're starting to circle that rule 1 drain. Let it go for a while, step away from the keyboard or just go to other threads.

One thing I am considering with the K-wing is running a double Proton Bomb Guardian squadron pilot with Fat Han. The idea here is to counter Swarms with the K-wing, while Han handles Aces. I'm using a guardian Sq. pilot to ensure I move after all the PS1,2,3 guys that are so common. Against more elite (Fatty/Arc-dodger) lists, I use proton bombs to create no-fly zones to try to keep the pressure off Han.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
One thing I am considering with the K-wing is running a double Proton Bomb Guardian squadron pilot with Fat Han. The idea here is to counter Swarms with the K-wing, while Han handles Aces. I'm using a guardian Sq. pilot to ensure I move after all the PS1,2,3 guys that are so common. Against more elite (Fatty/Arc-dodger) lists, I use proton bombs to create no-fly zones to try to keep the pressure off Han.

That actually sounds pretty effective, and I think that would look awesome on the table as well. Might have to pick me up a second K-wing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, question. If you give a K-wing the TLT and a Gunner, and you perform your first attack and miss, would you perform a primary weapon attack, then perform the second TLT attack?

Edit: Reread Gunner. So you could, in theory, shoot twice with the TLT, and after the second attack (subtracting 1 die to restore a shield, obviously, so you'll probably miss) you could then perform a third attack using Gunner.

We had a Tourny on Saturday. One of the guys broke out the new hotness and pulled off quite a trick with the k-Wing:
Miranda, AutoBlaster turret
Jan ors, TLT
B-Wing, FCS

Essentially If you let him get in R-1, he would fire up the Autoblaster, drop a shield for an extra attack, then use Jan Ors for a 4th dice...a 4 shot Autoblaster.

The drawback being once you slip around him Jan Ors dies quickly, the b-Wing gets focused down PDQ, and the K-Wing does not have the speed to get away or control range...and ends up dyeing soon after.

I played in the NOVA Open X-Wing Championship over the weekend and I am both happy and sad to report that Miranda with Twin Laser Turret is just as good/terrible as I thought.

The range 3 turret that puts out consistent damage is nothing to ignore and it is pretty demoralizing to play against. Just when you think you might make headway on her, she'll start regenerating her shields, all while plinking your for a little damage every turn. On the flip side, I did get a change to play with Miranda this weekend as well and she is good fun; orbit your target taking potshots at them, SLAM if you need to get out of harms way, boost your primary weapon attack if they get into range 1, regenerate shields as needed.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I played in the NOVA Open X-Wing Championship over the weekend and I am both happy and sad to report that Miranda with Twin Laser Turret is just as good/terrible as I thought.

The range 3 turret that puts out consistent damage is nothing to ignore and it is pretty demoralizing to play against. Just when you think you might make headway on her, she'll start regenerating her shields, all while plinking your for a little damage every turn. On the flip side, I did get a change to play with Miranda this weekend as well and she is good fun; orbit your target taking potshots at them, SLAM if you need to get out of harms way, boost your primary weapon attack if they get into range 1, regenerate shields as needed.

Yeah, finally tried her out a few nights ago. Miranda with the TLT. Essentially aided Dash is destroying a Firespray and a Decimator. The maneuverability is fantastic, and the turret/primary is really fun and deceivingly good.