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I have two list and am undecided about which one to build. Please help me by giving my your opinion to which one you like and how you would make changes if you see they are needed. Also I am unsure as to which chapter tactic to use.

Thank you


1st 1850 CAD

100
HQ Captain combi grav, Rides with command squad
210
Command Squad Apothecary, SS x3, Melta gun x2, Combi grav x2
Pod

205
EL Iron Clad HK x2
Pod DL

205
Iron Clad HK x2
Pod DL

190
Iron Clad HK x2, Heavy flamer, Hurricane bolter
Pod

125
TR Tactical Squad Combi melta, Melta gun,
Pod

155
Tactical Squad Melta gun,
Razor Las plas

155
Tactical Squad Melta gun,
Razor Las plas

210
FA Landspeeder x3 Typhoon x3

195
HV Whirlwind x3

100
Thunder fire cannon




2nd list is an attempt at a 1850 gladius with double demi for free transports, maybe with khan and white scars

Core Battle Demi Company #1
150
HQ Khan Moondrakkan, rides with the command squad
240
Command squad Bikes, Apothecary, Grav gun x2, Melta gun x2, SS x5
Razor back free Las play

145
TR Bike squad sgt grav combi, grave gun x2, sm biker x2

95
Tactical flamer
Razor back free Las plas
95
Tactical flamer
Razor back free Las plas
95
Tactical flamer
Razor back free Las plas

135
HV Devastator squad missile launcher x3
Razor back free Las plas



Battle Demi Company #2
115
HQ Chaplain bike, auspex he may go to different squads depending on game to game

135
TR Bike squad sgt melta combi, melta gun x2, sm biker x2

90
Tactical melta gun, sgt multi combi
Pod Free
90
Tactical melta gun, sgt multi combi
Pod Free
90
Tactical melta gun, sgt multi combi
Pod Free

135
HV Devastator squad missile launcher x3
Razor back free Las plas


Auxillary Anti Air Defense Force

70
HV Hunter

75
Stalker

75
Stalker

I'm a casual gamer who runs a white scars bike list, so apply salt as needed. I like list 2. Here's my thoughts on both:

Both lists:
- I would not mix melta and grav in the same squad. Just take more grav to strip HP.
- Las plas razors might synergize better with plas/combi-plas tacs?

List 1: Grav likes relentless platforms. I don't see that your command squad can get relentless. Thus you are paying 300ish points for a suboptimally equipt unit. I don't understand the plan for the rest of the army, since it isn't bikes

List 2: Ahh Bikes! Swap the command squad weapons to all-grav. Such a squad greatly benefits from a chapter master smashfether for 2+ tanking with eternal warrior. A Khan-Scars Gladius says alpha strike to me, so I'd be tempted to go all pods. If you don't wanna go alpha strike, maybe consider iron hands?

Thanks kooshlord for the reply. I see your point about not mixing guns in a squad, and I would like to have more grav in a squad. Grav is more pts than melta. I was trying to figure it out.

List 1
Maybe list 1 command squad needs to be all melta to help bust armor then everything else can shoot what comes out. The first list would prolly be iron hands to help it survive better. If the command squad was changed to bikes I would have to change one tac to pod instead of razor. That way I can still have 3 pods drop turn one. Most likely the iron clads. If I change that then I dont see the point in a lone razor. which will free up 75 pts.

What do you recommend with the extra 75 pts.
also a friend recommended taking out the whirlwinds for a squad of bikes, what do you think


List 2 some of the free razors can out flank. The few pods can go where needed to help with trouble spots. The bikes and some razors can scout to put on the pressure and keep up the attack. The rest of the razors and squads of tacts can out flank if needed. I agree with swapping to all grav on the command squad. Because of the double battle demi formation, I get free transports and everything has obj secured. only the hunter and stalkers do not have obj sec. I could do iron hands on the second list. however I would lose the scout rule khan gives to me. I think iron hand would help me survive a little. also it would cause the army to play a little more like parking lot.

also should i keep in the anti air formation or pick a diff formation.

Thank you for your help and please keep the advice coming.

Do you own anything already? If so, what?

List 1: I think the new formations make the marine CAD obsolete if you aren't running grav-bike spam. Let's move to ...

List 2: Check out the following thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/655885.page

tldr: outflank sucks without reserve manipulation, meltas and flamers in rhinos or pods, plasma on foot, grav on bikes or centurions.

I own none of it. All I have is Gk.

Thank you for your help. Now I am doing a double battle demi closer to his with a surpression force or scouts. The next issue is weather or not I need to worry about air. Anti air gives me a way to deal with it. how ever i was thinking if i went for a rhino in the dev squads i would have the pts to add some flak since they have missiles anyway and they have range. if i take the scouts i will prolly do 2 grav cannons and one hbolter per dev squad, then give scouts missle launcher or hb and all sniper and either ignore flyers or just shoot and use math hammer for 6s.

I'd say if you are sure you face aircraft or flying monstrous creatures, go with anti-air. If you aren't sure, go with something that'll help regardless (scouts or sternguard).

I don't think half-measures work well in 40K. missle launchers can engage a wide variety of targets, especially with flakk. But they aren't very good at engaging any of them. Likewise, mixing guns in a dev squad means you can engage more targets, but will have trouble taking out the thing that needs to die NOW.

Course I haven't tried either since the last dex, so YMMV.

Good luck and happy hunting!

Thanks for all the help. My thoughts on dev was to sit back and shoot kraks since they have 48" range and missiles are cheap. I don't like flak as its to many pts and one friend liked this. However one other friend at the local shop also suggested changing the devs from razor to pods, this would give me 5 pods. I am not sure if I like this or not. I would still want the tacs with melta to pod first if armor is an issue. Since the dev have heavy weapons the first time they shoot will be after walking which is less effective. He also suggested to take out all missiles and get as many grav cannons as can fit in. The sterns or vanguard from the 1st company task force might fit in once I wiggle some pts. Stern look like the more points costly option they also need pods. However the vanguard can go where they want with good deployment and jetpacks.