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It seems half the games at nova this year where decided by tank shock one way or another.

It was ruled that a jump unit or a jetpack unit can't move freely over intervening models because the movement was involuntary and so the controlling player could not pick a moment type.

This seams to me to be the incorrect decision.
jump rules
"Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase – they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn. If not using its jump pack, a model moves as a normal model of its type. Indeed, a Jump unit can always choose to move as a normal model of their type if they wish."

The underlined part would indicate that normal movement is not the default for a jump unit.

jet pack rules.
"Jet Pack units can move as normal models of their type or use their jet packs."

Again no indication of a default movement type.

jet bike rule
"Jetbikes can move over all other models and terrain freely."

It seems that their interpretation was incorrect what does ymdc think.

Jump packs specifies that they can use their jump either, the movement phase or the assault phase, any other time, it's normal.
I'd say they can't jump over other models.

Similar, the Jet pack can Choose to use packs on movement and assault. But it doesn't explicitly say that.

Jet bikes can.

Unless you fail the morale check that it's a fall back movement, that Jump packs explicity says that they use their jump pack when retreating, there is no discussion.
If you pass it, it's not a movement. I think...

the wording is "once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase"
tank shock happens in the movement phase. The rule does not specify who turn it is.

How was tank shock performed to destroy the enemy unit(s) ?

How was tank shock performed to destroy the enemy unit(s) ?

fate weaver was in the corner of the table, rhino and 5 marines close by, the marines block the left flank and the rhino goes at an angle to cover the right flank and tank shock (no gaps in the centre), there was not enough room to move fatey to move around the rhino without leaving the board.

It was ruled that fatey could not "jump" over or get past the Rhino so was therefore destroyed as it failed to stop the Rhino with death or glory.

 gallantseer wrote:

How was tank shock performed to destroy the enemy unit(s) ?

fate weaver was in the corner of the table, rhino and 5 marines close by, the marines block the left flank and the rhino goes at an angle to cover the right flank and tank shock (no gaps in the centre), there was not enough room to move fatey to move around the rhino without leaving the board.

It was ruled that fatey could not "jump" over or get past the Rhino so was therefore destroyed as it failed to stop the Rhino with death or glory.

Was Fateweaver not flying?

What do you think ?

 Dozer Blades wrote:
What do you think ?

There is no reason for Fateweaver to not be swooping in the opponents movement phase.

Unless he was Grounded.

A tank shocked unit can always move through the tank shocking unit. If you couldn't then you would never be able to move out of the way since you don't move until the final position of the tank is determined. Either way you have to move through the tank so you can just move to where the non skimmer tank came from.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unless he was Grounded.

Getting grounded doesn't happen until the end of the shooting phase so it's too late to get tank shocked and Fateweaver will just return to swooping in his following movement phase

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unless he was Grounded.

Getting grounded doesn't happen until the end of the shooting phase so it's too late to get tank shocked and Fateweaver will just return to swooping in his following movement phase

Not that this isn't off topic, but he could have been grounded in his (Fateweaver's) psychic phase. or he could have needed fatweaver to contest an objective, or it was just poor strategy.

It was a very complex situation where fatweaver could not escape the tank shock without going within an inch of another model, don't worry about the specifics of this particular situation.

focus on whether a model can use its ability to move over enemy models while escaping from a tank shock.

Sunhero wrote:
It was a very complex situation where fatweaver could not escape the tank shock without going within an inch of another model, don't worry about the specifics of this particular situation.

focus on whether a model can use its ability to move over enemy models while escaping from a tank shock.

The models under the tanks final position have to be able to move through the tank, otherwise the rules about moving out of the way of the tank shock are useless.

The model must move the shortest distance to be 1" away from the vehicle doing the tank shock. If this takes it within 1" of another enemy model or out of coherency then it is destroyed.

 Bahkara wrote:
The model must move the shortest distance to be 1" away from the vehicle doing the tank shock. If this takes it within 1" of another enemy model or out of coherency then it is destroyed.

Except the Tank Shock rule states "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is Falling Back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board."

So if you can not get 1" away from the vehicle in a direction because there are enemy models there, that is not the shortest distance that fits the qualifications, and you have to find the shortest distance where they can leave 1 inch between them and the vehicle.

Right, so they are destroyed because they cannot move the shortest distance and still maintain coherency. The next sentence after the one you quoted even mentions that if they can't do both, maintain coherency and be 1" away, they are removed with no save allowed. This suggests that you have to move the shortest distance or else why even make coherency a condition if, like previous editions, you can just move as much as you want to maintain coherency or just move back into coherency on the next turn.

 Bahkara wrote:
Right, so they are destroyed because they cannot move the shortest distance and still maintain coherency

The shortest distance is the one that fulfils all criteria. One of the criteria is not being within 1" of an enemy unit. You only destroy the unit if there is no way to move past an enemy unit to be more than 1" away.

Fateweaver does not jump "over" the tank, the tank passes through and fateweaver moves the shortest distance, ignoiring the tank being in the way. Jump or jet movement is irrelevant, infantry can happily do this.

Sounds like a really, really bad call in game if tey said FW was destroyed.

And that the problem. I read it a different way. Either way FW died and that, plus having a bunker in your army, cost Nick the game

According to how the sentence is constructed, only one reading is correct.

It is the same as shortest route for making charges; this is shortest route while also not making base with another units models, not going through impassable terrain, etc.

It is inordinately difficult to kill models with tank shock. It can only occur, to my knowledge, when you have a wall of models around the unit you wish to TS, and you then TS a skimmer tank in; the allowance to move past the TS model does not apply ot other models.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
According to how the sentence is constructed, only one reading is correct.

It is the same as shortest route for making charges; this is shortest route while also not making base with another units models, not going through impassable terrain, etc.

It is inordinately difficult to kill models with tank shock. It can only occur, to my knowledge, when you have a wall of models around the unit you wish to TS, and you then TS a skimmer tank in; the allowance to move past the TS model does not apply ot other models.

For wiping out a whole unit, yes that is the only way to kill a whole unit with TS (to my knowledge as well).

I thought you couldn't tank shock a flying monstrous creature in swoop mode?

 vercingatorix wrote:
I thought you couldn't tank shock a flying monstrous creature in swoop mode?

Correct, but you can Tank Shock one that is Gliding. Although the question was general on various unit types before the Fateweaver example came up (note the conversation about him needing to have been grounded or chosen to Glide).

Okay, that makes more sense. I just saw the snide "What do you think" but no confirmation. If he was gliding then he's probably screwed. Thanks!