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I dont know where i am... please... i dont know where i am

how would you fix guardsmen?

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Giving Lasguns Rending maybe? That would make them quite a bit better and I think it does actually fit Las-weapons to have it.
   
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TVD1903 wrote:
Giving Lasguns Rending maybe? That would make them quite a bit better and I think it does actually fit Las-weapons to have it.


I'm sorry but lasguns getting rending? How are they justified in receiving that fluffwise? Lasguns aren't known for their ability to tear through flesh or their anti-armour capabilities. At most you have overcharged lasguns which give it greater armour penetration but that is reflected through their AP rather than strength since they lack the raw kinetic energy of slug/bullet-based weaponry.

If you want to fix guardsmen I would go with the route where sergeants are more than just a slight Ld boost for orders and instead be able to give orders to only their squad. Make them only have access to FRF, SRF! and Move! Move! Move! so that way all squads have access to the very basic firepower multiplier without having to resort to blobbing and allow more MSU platoon lists. It also shows the chain of command existing beyond just the Company and Platoon Command squad which allows you to see the level of gradation between the levels of command from greater access to orders.

In addition to this, make it so vox-casters allow unlimited range for orders from the different command squads and I'd think you'd see the orders system being used a lot more efficiently.

If the concern is about lasguns needing parity with the other races' basic guns, maybe give lasguns a once per game "overcharge" mode similar to the lasrifles in 30K's Solar Auxilia book, where the entire squad fires a 30" range Heavy 1 shot that is S5-6 AP- and doesn't gain any benefit from FRF SRF!
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Eh. Lasguns getting Rending wouldn't be a terrible thing. They aren't known for their ability to tear through flesh or armor, but it's not like Shuriken Catapaults are either yet they still get Rending.

In the case of SCs, and should be the case with Lasguns as well, it's the shot hitting a critical joint or the like.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Eh. Lasguns getting Rending wouldn't be a terrible thing. They aren't known for their ability to tear through flesh or armor, but it's not like Shuriken Catapaults are either yet they still get Rending.

In the case of SCs, and should be the case with Lasguns as well, it's the shot hitting a critical joint or the like.


To be fair, Eldar are the exception for a LOT of things, what with them also being the only faction to have relatively easy access to strength D weaponry for infantry models. If you look at the rest of the armies, there's the shoota, the bolter, the gauss flayer/blaster, fleshborer/spike rifle, pulse rifle, splinter rifle and more recently the radium carbine and galvanic rifles. All of which can also have some measure of justification of getting a "rending" hit like a lasgun whether its through sheer firepower (all of which are functionally more powerful than a lasgun), a quirk like how gauss weapons literally atomize the foe or fleshborer beetles digging through vulnerable spots or, as you said, being just as likely to hit a critical area of the foe. With lasguns being the weakest I think fluffwise there's little justification for it to gain that. I don't think shuriken catapults should have rending anymore than lasguns should, but this is a discussion about guardsmen. In any case, I think besides the suggestion to overcharge the lasguns that perhaps having a "combined" profile based upon the number of models wielding a lasgun in the unit might be a better idea. It forgoes firing at will or in segments like FRF SRF to bring all weapons to bear at once. Maybe +1S for every 5 guardsmen in the unit? Then the profile would be Salvo 10/20 or something like that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/04 20:40:13


 
   
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Have different regiment tactics that they can choose from with the different ones giving benefits to every infantry model in the detachment.

Some examples of what they could be.

Regiment Tactic #1 an uber zealous regiment
Born to die- all models with this rule ignore negative modifiers to their leadership and may never be swept in combat.
Unrelenting advance- models with this rule add 1" to their move, run, and charge distances.

Regiment Tactic #2 an uber professional regiment
Trained from birth- models with this rule may reroll all to hit rolls with their weapons when firing at a target within half range.
Dead shot- if a model in this detachment with a lasgun type does not move it may opt to instead fire it with the following profile- Range18" s3 ap- Heavy 1, rending.

Regiment tactic #3 penal legion
Limitless numbers- any unit in this detachment that is destroyed is immediately replaced by an identical unit with the same upgrades and models that walks on thecontroimg players board edge.
Redeemed in death-models in this detachment may opt to be swept in combat if the controlling player decides to do so. If this is done then instead of the enemy making a normal consolidation move they must roll a scatter die and 2 d6 to see where their unit moves.

Other fixes include :
Dropping Russ prices by 20pts on most variants.
Dropping price on chimera and taurox by 10pts

Too lazy to list other ideas right now.



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 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

Redeemed in death-models in this detachment may opt to be swept in combat if the controlling player decides to do so. If this is done then instead of the enemy making a normal consolidation move they must roll a scatter die and 2 d6 to see where their unit moves.



Something like this where you get to make move the enemy unit 6 inches to represent the penal squad baiting the enemy into a kill zone with their dying moments.
   
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 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Have different regiment tactics that they can choose from with the different ones giving benefits to every infantry model in the detachment.

Some examples of what they could be.

Regiment Tactic #1 an uber zealous regiment
Born to die- all models with this rule ignore negative modifiers to their leadership and may never be swept in combat.
Unrelenting advance- models with this rule add 1" to their move, run, and charge distances.

Regiment Tactic #2 an uber professional regiment
Trained from birth- models with this rule may reroll all to hit rolls with their weapons when firing at a target within half range.
Dead shot- if a model in this detachment with a lasgun type does not move it may opt to instead fire it with the following profile- Range18" s3 ap- Heavy 1, rending.

Regiment tactic #3 penal legion
Limitless numbers- any unit in this detachment that is destroyed is immediately replaced by an identical unit with the same upgrades and models that walks on thecontroimg players board edge.
Redeemed in death-models in this detachment may opt to be swept in combat if the controlling player decides to do so. If this is done then instead of the enemy making a normal consolidation move they must roll a scatter die and 2 d6 to see where their unit moves.

Other fixes include :
Dropping Russ prices by 20pts on most variants.
Dropping price on chimera and taurox by 10pts

Too lazy to list other ideas right now.



I like this approach. Personally, I kind of wish every army had something akin to chapter tactics to help distinguish its sub-faction.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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I'm sorry but lasguns getting rending? How are they justified in receiving that fluffwise? Lasguns aren't known for their ability to tear through flesh or their anti-armour capabilities. At most you have overcharged lasguns which give it greater armour penetration but that is reflected through their AP rather than strength since they lack the raw kinetic energy of slug/bullet-based weaponry.

If you want to fix guardsmen I would go with the route where sergeants are more than just a slight Ld boost for orders and instead be able to give orders to only their squad. Make them only have access to FRF, SRF! and Move! Move! Move! so that way all squads have access to the very basic firepower multiplier without having to resort to blobbing and allow more MSU platoon lists. It also shows the chain of command existing beyond just the Company and Platoon Command squad which allows you to see the level of gradation between the levels of command from greater access to orders.

In addition to this, make it so vox-casters allow unlimited range for orders from the different command squads and I'd think you'd see the orders system being used a lot more efficiently.

If the concern is about lasguns needing parity with the other races' basic guns, maybe give lasguns a once per game "overcharge" mode similar to the lasrifles in 30K's Solar Auxilia book, where the entire squad fires a 30" range Heavy 1 shot that is S5-6 AP- and doesn't gain any benefit from FRF SRF!


I was thinking about some piece of fluff I was reading the other day about Lasguns. It was telling about the power settings on a Lasgun and that some soldiers know how to overpower them, so to speak. This could be the justification, but as you said, it might be a bit much. Maybe a new rule, similar to Rending but AP3?

I do think that it's a good idea for Sergeants to be able to give Orders, but won't that be a bit overpowered? We will be seeing even more shots going the way of the enemy but is that really a solution to the squishiness problems (which I feel is a more important issues; than the amount of shots)? Guardsmen will go down just as easily then...

About the overcharging... How would that make sense fluffwise? I've never read anything about regular Guardsmen being issued Overchargers.
   
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What exactly are you trying to fix about Guard? What would you consider problem points, beyond the game system not being kind to light mech, or lack of maelstrom mobility?
   
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TVD1903 wrote:
I'm sorry but lasguns getting rending? How are they justified in receiving that fluffwise? Lasguns aren't known for their ability to tear through flesh or their anti-armour capabilities. At most you have overcharged lasguns which give it greater armour penetration but that is reflected through their AP rather than strength since they lack the raw kinetic energy of slug/bullet-based weaponry.

If you want to fix guardsmen I would go with the route where sergeants are more than just a slight Ld boost for orders and instead be able to give orders to only their squad. Make them only have access to FRF, SRF! and Move! Move! Move! so that way all squads have access to the very basic firepower multiplier without having to resort to blobbing and allow more MSU platoon lists. It also shows the chain of command existing beyond just the Company and Platoon Command squad which allows you to see the level of gradation between the levels of command from greater access to orders.

In addition to this, make it so vox-casters allow unlimited range for orders from the different command squads and I'd think you'd see the orders system being used a lot more efficiently.

If the concern is about lasguns needing parity with the other races' basic guns, maybe give lasguns a once per game "overcharge" mode similar to the lasrifles in 30K's Solar Auxilia book, where the entire squad fires a 30" range Heavy 1 shot that is S5-6 AP- and doesn't gain any benefit from FRF SRF!


I was thinking about some piece of fluff I was reading the other day about Lasguns. It was telling about the power settings on a Lasgun and that some soldiers know how to overpower them, so to speak. This could be the justification, but as you said, it might be a bit much. Maybe a new rule, similar to Rending but AP3?

I do think that it's a good idea for Sergeants to be able to give Orders, but won't that be a bit overpowered? We will be seeing even more shots going the way of the enemy but is that really a solution to the squishiness problems (which I feel is a more important issues; than the amount of shots)? Guardsmen will go down just as easily then...

About the overcharging... How would that make sense fluffwise? I've never read anything about regular Guardsmen being issued Overchargers.


There are weapons in the Fantasy Flight RPGs that, if I recall correctly, are basically regular las weapons that someone had fiddled with to make them shoot faster at shorter range, farther-but-slower with more oomph, etc. This would probably best be represented by having alternate weapons available for guardsmen. Letting a squad upgrade to the shotgunish version, for instance, might literally just be an upgrade to shotguns. Letting them have the sniper version might make the weapon assault 1 or heavy 1 at up to 30". The more powerful version would probably just be a hot-shot las weapon, wouldn't it?

The problem with giving regular guardsmen rending is that they're just so cheap per shot. Especially when you factor FRSRF. Without cruching the numbers, I suspect guardsmen would be better at killing power armor point for point than dire avengers purely because you could fish for sixes. Heck, you'd be better at killing light vehicles than necrons because you'd simply have more shots. Unless you meant pseudo-rending ala Bladestorm. The suggestion above about making them one-shot rending weapons works out a bit better because you aren't spamming as many shots while also limiting your mobility. Sort of like the Raptors chapter tactic. It gives the troops more flexibility in a pinch, but they aren't going to be going around intentionally hunting heavy armor with their lasguns.

Having sargeants shouting orders is cool. You just have to watch out for creating too much book keeping. Giving them sufficiently toned-down orders that are resolved immediately or easy to remember/track would be cool and helpful. Plus, leadership is kind of the IG's thing. Most other armies don't really interact with Leadership much. Guard are one of the few armies that has to worry about pinning and fear, and they're also the only army to throw buffs around using Leadership checks. It's cool, and the orders system is a neat gimmick for them.

EDIT: Also, what Magic_Juggler said. It's important to identify what you're trying to fix so that you can better judge if your rules accomplish that goal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/05 20:28:27



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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Wyldhunt wrote:
The suggestion above about making them one-shot rending weapons works out a bit better because you aren't spamming as many shots while also limiting your mobility. Sort of like the Raptors chapter tactic. It gives the troops more flexibility in a pinch, but they aren't going to be going around intentionally hunting heavy armor with their lasguns.


Yes that was my inspiration for the rule. I figured that it'd be handy in a pinch, but not OTT


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My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

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"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
   
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 natpri771 wrote:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"



Well considering are either the worst or at best second to worst codex in the game this statement is kind of pointless.


They NEED point reductions on alot of their vehicles. There weapons need to pack more punch, their options for elites and fast attack need to be improved so that they aren't garbage, and their troops need to be able to move around more quickly and actually do some damage.


Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA

 hanshotfirst wrote:
how would you fix guardsmen?


Perhaps the humble guardsman and his lasgun are not the problem. Perhaps it's the bloated game he's stuck in that's the problem?

   
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I gave all armies +1 wound on characters that are a part of units.
Let heavy vehicles ignore ordinance penalties
Had the vox casters add 12" to command range and ignore line of sight requirement in addition to the standard bonus
Conscripts enter ongoing reserves on a 4+ when killed
Taurox prime gained command vehicle
Dedicated transports became fast attack options
Rough riders gained one wound each
Tempestus scions gained +1 leadership.

Our guard players have had no complaints

   
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i would do something similar to my fandex.

although i need to update that post as i am on revision 1.2 now. i added back new rules to ignore ordinance, and add some more units back in with "fixed" rules or points values.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/666014.page
   
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Guard are not broken and with necrons and eldar are one of th most powerful armies.

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Ffyllotek wrote:
Guard are not broken and with necrons and eldar are one of th most powerful armies.
Either you're saying that the IG are fine as-is, or you're suggesting they're too powerful, OR you're saying that allies make up for a bad codex. None of which are true.


As this thread has repeatedly demonstrated, the issues with IG are too large and too complicated to deal with on a case by case basis. The structure of how they play needs rewriting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/07 20:22:30


 
   
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On moon miranda.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
What exactly are you trying to fix about Guard? What would you consider problem points, beyond the game system not being kind to light mech, or lack of maelstrom mobility?
Really it's that they seem to be a slight re-hash of the 5E book, with some knee-jerk reactions to 5E issues and most of the internal problems intact or exacerbated.

The problem is multi-facetd. First and foremost, the game has really simply bloated in scale beyond the point at which a single guardsmen with a piddly lasgun can really be considered to be a relevant game piece to bother keeping track of as an individual model, the game increasingly plays at a scale more appropriate to Epic, and continues to come up with units like Necron Wraiths or TWC's that can be made just so outrageously resistant to quantity of fire that something like Lasguns really simply needs to be abstracted as squad or platoon fire rather than individual models. Then of course we get into issues of mobility simply not being adequate for the missions as designed and non-skimmer vehicle functionality being notably lacking.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I gave all armies +1 wound on characters that are a part of units.
Let heavy vehicles ignore ordinance penalties
Had the vox casters add 12" to command range and ignore line of sight requirement in addition to the standard bonus
Conscripts enter ongoing reserves on a 4+ when killed
Taurox prime gained command vehicle
Dedicated transports became fast attack options
Rough riders gained one wound each
Tempestus scions gained +1 leadership.

Our guard players have had no complaints

Some of these are allright, some are puzzling, but many seem to miss the mark. IG "sergeants" getting a 2nd wound is nice, but their lifespan, in and of itself, isn't really a major issue within the IG army. The Heavy and Ordnance thing is a pretty good one. Vox really should just drop the reroll and allow orders at any range. Rough Riders have a problem with that they're only useful if *they* initiate the charge, and only for a single charge ever, and have a relatively small number of attacks. Scions have issues beyond just Leadership

Ffyllotek wrote:
Guard are not broken and with necrons and eldar are one of th most powerful armies.
I think you're probably the only person that believes this. Certainly they aren't sharing anything near the same results standings at any tournaments I can find data for, where IG have been doing astoundingly worse on a consistent basis than either Necrons or Eldar.

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SoCal, USA!

 hanshotfirst wrote:
how would you fix guardsmen?


Guardsmen are basically OK as-is. They don't need to be any "better". But they do need to be a little cheaper:
* -5 pts cheaper per squad of 10;
* Plasma Gun upgrade reduced to +10 pts for BS3 models.
* HWS & SWS can take Chimera Transport

Other than that, I got nothing for the basic Guard Platoon; however:

Conscripts: 5-20 models, may take LP&CCW instead of Lasgun.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimskul wrote:
To be fair, Eldar are the exception for a LOT of things, what with them also being the only faction to have relatively easy access to strength D weaponry for infantry models.

I don't think shuriken catapults should have rending anymore than lasguns should


If you go back, Shuricats were Bolter-equivalents with a -2 ASM, so Shuricats were categorically superior to -1 ASM Bolters. Guardian hordes were scary, precisely because of how many Shuricats they would field, upgraded from Lasgun-equivalents. RT/2E Shuricats would cut through enemy models like butter, pushing Marine saves from a 3+ down to a 5+, and Termies from a 2+ down to a 4+.

Rending (Fleshbane) is a fair way of capturing that difference, but the -2 ASM is definitely stronger.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/07 21:07:09


   
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 Vaktathi wrote:
Certainly they aren't sharing anything near the same results standings at any tournaments I can find data for, where IG have been doing astoundingly worse on a consistent basis than either Necrons or Eldar.
You probably know the issues that affect tourney-level players are completely different than what affects some scrub who simply lines up a bunch of Heavy AV12-14, bubblewrap and Lascannons at his end of the board and refuses to move. These players play completely differently because some keep an open mind and encourage unusual synergies, while others detest it and refuse to adapt.

Formations will eventually fix this when it bumps up scrub firepower and allows tourney players new options including drowning opponents in MSU, Gladius-style (which is probably inevitable).

Codex creep is real... sorry IG players, it's your turn at the bottom of the wheel. Accept your fate with dignity and grace befitting a soldier of the Emperor (or just houserule in your Apoc formations early, since that's the intelligent thing to do).
   
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Runnin up on ya.

The problem with Guard is that they're too squishy and have to be fielded in such large numbers that makes the plethora ("would you say that I have a plethora?" of large blast, AP5< weapons. They die to a stiff breeze or a stern look. They need some sort of upgrade that would give them stealth or shrouded; heck, make it a vehicle that gives shrouded to any models within 12" or something. At least then they'd only be vulnerable to ignore cover weapons (which there a great number) but more durable to regular small-arms. Either that or give them a 4+ save.

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Yoyoyo wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
Certainly they aren't sharing anything near the same results standings at any tournaments I can find data for, where IG have been doing astoundingly worse on a consistent basis than either Necrons or Eldar.
You probably know the issues that affect tourney-level players are completely different than what affects some scrub who simply lines up a bunch of Heavy AV12-14, bubblewrap and Lascannons at his end of the board and refuses to move. These players play completely differently because some keep an open mind and encourage unusual synergies, while others detest it and refuse to adapt.

Formations will eventually fix this when it bumps up scrub firepower and allows tourney players new options including drowning opponents in MSU, Gladius-style (which is probably inevitable).

Codex creep is real... sorry IG players, it's your turn at the bottom of the wheel. Accept your fate with dignity and grace befitting a soldier of the Emperor (or just houserule in your Apoc formations early, since that's the intelligent thing to do).
To be fair, IG have usually been fairly near the bottom, 5E was something of an aberration. They pretty terrible throughout 3E and 4E (in fact IG were probably at their worst in 4E), were probably the weakest overall 2E army, and were only really able to do well in 6E because of allies shennanigans coupled with lots of FW Artillery units and basic Codex built armies did very poorly.

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Fort Benning, Georgia

Yoyoyo wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
Certainly they aren't sharing anything near the same results standings at any tournaments I can find data for, where IG have been doing astoundingly worse on a consistent basis than either Necrons or Eldar.
You probably know the issues that affect tourney-level players are completely different than what affects some scrub who simply lines up a bunch of Heavy AV12-14, bubblewrap and Lascannons at his end of the board and refuses to move. These players play completely differently because some keep an open mind and encourage unusual synergies, while others detest it and refuse to adapt.

Formations will eventually fix this when it bumps up scrub firepower and allows tourney players new options including drowning opponents in MSU, Gladius-style (which is probably inevitable).

Codex creep is real... sorry IG players, it's your turn at the bottom of the wheel. Accept your fate with dignity and grace befitting a soldier of the Emperor (or just houserule in your Apoc formations early, since that's the intelligent thing to do).


Imperial Guard have pretty much always been a fairly weak army so I'm not sure where this is coming from. They have had *one* tournament worthy list in the Leafblower which was pretty one dimensional and did not dominate very long.

So try again.
   
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I believe the problem doesn't lay with the guardsmen themselves, but with their weapons.

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preston

Yoyoyo wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
Certainly they aren't sharing anything near the same results standings at any tournaments I can find data for, where IG have been doing astoundingly worse on a consistent basis than either Necrons or Eldar.
You probably know the issues that affect tourney-level players are completely different than what affects some scrub who simply lines up a bunch of Heavy AV12-14, bubblewrap and Lascannons at his end of the board and refuses to move. These players play completely differently because some keep an open mind and encourage unusual synergies, while others detest it and refuse to adapt.

Formations will eventually fix this when it bumps up scrub firepower and allows tourney players new options including drowning opponents in MSU, Gladius-style (which is probably inevitable).

Codex creep is real... sorry IG players, it's your turn at the bottom of the wheel. Accept your fate with dignity and grace befitting a soldier of the Emperor (or just houserule in your Apoc formations early, since that's the intelligent thing to do).


Eh, now I would understand this if we in the Guard had ever once been a top tier army but we have never been so.
2E: Unless you went all out Vortex Grenade you usually lost. And even if you did you lacked the numbers to fight with after your initial alpha strike.
3E: The Leman Russ became famed as a static Battlecannon bunker but was actually pretty good. Sadly the rest of the army made up for that.
4E: With the increase in decent AP weapons and the introduction of the Tau (whom basically stole the gunline from the Guard and do it better) combined with the overall nerfing of vehicles, especially tanks, the Guard take a sudden drop. Thankfully most of us can think our way out of this to still perform adequately against most foes.
5E: Tanks are finally fixed to become something more viable and with the new codex drop Melta Vets become a popular unit. However Stormtroopers, Ogryns and Sentinels are largely forgotten as they cost more than they are worth. The dreaded Leafblower briefly raises its head but is in all honesty more of a ghost threat as it requires playing games of, at the very least, 2K or (preferably) above and allying with the Inquisition to pull off. The dreaded Leman Russ parking lot is another ghost threat that briefly appears and owes its success mainly to the fact that many player of certain armies do not bother to bring enough (read "more than token") dedicated AT weapons, which leads to much whining from said certain army players.
6E: The change to vehicle mechanics coupled with the release of several new, powerful, codexes sees the Guard drop from lower middle tier to close to the bottom, but fear not because the new codex is...... A complete and utter disaster. The new Imperial Guard codex drops and brings with it a mass of undeserved nerfs to the way in which the units function. The Lema Russ can no longer fire its main gun and secondary weapon(s) and is now slower than the Infantry. Several notable characters are dropped and those that remain are nerfed and/or increased in points as to become useless. Ogryns are even more overpriced and Bullgryns are an aborted joke. On a plus side Sentinels are now cheaper but have also suffered from the nerfhammer too. The Guard players struggle on though.
7E: Too add insult to injury the 7E book drops soon after and brings with it yet more indirect nerfs to the Guard. Soon after this the infamous Decurion Codex drops, followed by Codex: Ultramarysues and Codex: Scatbikes. The Imperial Guard are reduced to being a painful joke, forced to bring SH's to most games to stand even the slightest chance of winning.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I would advocate for minimum squads of 5e Stormtroopers in larger games, simply because of Special Missions.

Other thoughts include:
-Lower the costs of Chimeras by 10.
-Remove Rough Riders as a fast attack, make them a platoon option for Troops; allow them +3" when running. Allow Veterans and HQS horses.
-Replace "Incoming!" Order with "Hold The Line!" Unit fires as normal, then goes to ground with the +2 cover bonus. No using this ability on Cavalry (However, with Forward For The Emperor...).
-Battle Psykers generate 1 WC per 3 Psykers in the squad; these may only be used by the PBS in question.
-Guard have far more "specialists" than other armies: Commissars, Psykers, Priests and Enginseers. They're cute but they eat up points while not scaling up linearly. Getting a "free" character for taking certain units could be an option (ex: 2 Russes=1 free Enginseer, 2 PBS=Free Primaris Psyker, etc)
-Scout Sentinels will not be viable as long as it remains easy to grant ignore cover to autocannon-equivalent weapons. Fix that and add camo netting base (or maybe Thermoptic Camo). Optionally, give them Hit and Run.
-Armored Sentinels get to go in Heavy Support, and get a 3rd Hull Point. Give them a second gun. They're now a slower heavier Eldar War Walker.
-Drop Sentinels are Elite, armor 11/10/10. They count as being equipped with Jet Packs, and have BS 4.
-All Ogryns have Carapace by default, are 30 points base. Same as a you-know-what of Chaos, losing out on Beast status, Rage, and funky mutations for better overall stats. They have the options for Ripper Guns at 5 points/model, or dual Close Combat Weapons. May optionally upgrade Ripper Guns to Power Bayonets at + 5/model.
-Bullgryns are a 3+ save by default,
-Make Ogryn Ripper Guns akin to a mini Frag Cannon. Template, S4, AP -, Assault 1 Rending. Maybe Assault 2 if you really want to compare yourself against D-Scythe Wraithguard...*cough*
-Drop the point cost of the Taurox Prime by 15 points. 85 points for a glorified Typhoon is somewhat more reasonable

This is all before discussing the tanks and artillery that Guard are known for in the first place. These changes would add basic survivability to the Guard in most standard firefights (they would still have issues with ignore-cover and melee but this is expected), would give them better mobility for scenario play, and clear out a few list-building traps. Ratlings still need to get back to the kitchen, for rules for black market fixers and sabotage aren't really in the scope of a standard 40k game...

Initial thoughts are appreciated as usual.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/08 14:03:24


 
   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

Personally, I'd give all infantry in the IG codex a permanent +1 to cover, giving everyone a minimum of 6+ cover. Means you don't have to make Guardsmen 4ppm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/08 14:05:18


 
   
 
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