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Am I the only that that thinks Ghazy, who is supposed to be the biggest and baddest Ork in the entire galaxy, comes across as being just too weak in game? Against most other big wigs he seems to usually come up short. Like a Warboss with mega armor and the lukky stikk are far cheaper and just about as good in a fight. I feel like such an important character should be much more of a power house than he currently is. The 2+ invuln only on the turn in which he calls a WAAAAGGHHH just does not seem enough. Same with his ghetto FNP save.

Its because he is still missing Maraki the Grot
Maraki was the definition of 'You Jammy Dodger'
2+/2++?, WAAAGH! Banner? Was taken as a bodyguard for Ghazzy, meaning in 7th ed games, he benefits from Ghazzys high T?

Well the fluff doesn't match the tabletop. Nobody doing the rules writing for GW seems to be a giant Ork fanboy so we didn't get OP as gak rules for him. In addition nearly all the "Lords of War" characters are really lackluster considering they occupy the same unit slot as a bloody Wraithknight or Imp Knight.

On a similar note we have a Mega Armored Warboss who is the same toughness and 1 less wound than a Tau Commander with the armor upgrade. The Commander can even take a decent invuln save and 5+ FNP but the Warboss is stuck with a 6+ FNP and zero invuln save.

It's largely due to the timing of ork codex. at the start of 7th edition GW decided to generally tone down codexs and several releases after that reflect that. Then Necrons happened and everything after that does have a bit more of an edge.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Then Necrons happened and everything after that does have a bit more of an edge.

Which is like saying the guns on an Iowa-class battleship are a bit more bigger than the ones used by infantry.

A marine can't kill 1000 guardsman in game either. The fluff doesn't always match up.

Maybe his rules are written with the idea that mighty as he is, he is about to meet his comeuppance, so the 'dice are loaded' against his favour? (just kidding, really)

Out of interest, how does he fair against Old Yarrik, rules wise?

Keep in mind the rules for ghaz are also in the same codex as the rules that state that a Nob in Eavy Armor and a PowerKlaw is somehow more expensive then a Nob in Mega armor with a power klaw

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Keep in mind the rules for ghaz are also in the same codex as the rules that state that a Nob in Eavy Armor and a PowerKlaw is somehow more expensive then a Nob in Mega armor with a power klaw

You don't even need Eavy Armour. A Nob with a PK but without Eavy Armour is still 3pts more than a Meganob with PK! I hadn't even noticed until you pointed it out (I don't play Orks, but do face them a lot), that's a ridiculous situation. There are downsides to Mega Armour (slow and purposeful, bigger target), but not to the extent that it makes the core Nob less valuable than one with a 6+ save!

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Keep in mind the rules for ghaz are also in the same codex as the rules that state that a Nob in Eavy Armor and a PowerKlaw is somehow more expensive then a Nob in Mega armor with a power klaw

What?! god bless it G-Dub... they need to playtest, as in just a month or two of a game a day with a codex before release, this is pants on head silly

 Lobukia wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Keep in mind the rules for ghaz are also in the same codex as the rules that state that a Nob in Eavy Armor and a PowerKlaw is somehow more expensive then a Nob in Mega armor with a power klaw

What?! god bless it G-Dub... they need to playtest, as in just a month or two of a game a day with a codex before release, this is pants on head silly

Nope. Only about 20% of the fan base actually plays 40k as a game (yes, they actually said that!!!)

But if that were true, why make rules such as army wide 4+ RP, free transports, assault out of DS, superheavies in standard games, etc, etc.

Those stats are misleading without context, what is the sample size, is it significant and more importantly, as a percentage, which group buys more from them, the 20% gamers or the 80% non-gamers (or casual, idk how they are defining it).

Anyway, Ghazghull is overcosted a bit. Take away the upgrades (Power Klaw, Big Shoota and co) and he has a guaranteed WL trait, EW and 2++ on Waaaagh for I think maybe 30-35~ more than a naked Warboss.

 Frozocrone wrote:
But if that were true, why make rules such as army wide 4+ RP, free transports, assault out of DS, superheavies in standard games, etc, etc.

Those stats are misleading without context, what is the sample size, is it significant and more importantly, as a percentage, which group buys more from them, the 20% gamers or the 80% non-gamers (or casual, idk how they are defining it).

Anyway, Ghazghull is overcosted a bit. Take away the upgrades (Power Klaw, Big Shoota and co) and he has a guaranteed WL trait, EW and 2++ on Waaaagh for I think maybe 30-35~ more than a naked Warboss.

PK/MA 40
BS 5

45pts

All ork warbosses have a guaranteed warlord trait so no go there, and Ghaz's is only special because it gives himself a 2++ for 1 turn and it allows 1 unit of MA nobz that he is attached to, to run and assault.

a nekkid warboss is 40pts. Ghaz nekkid is closer to 200.

Laugh now but one day he will have primarch like rules and he will command the ork cheese list to murder the weak eldar and tau lists.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
But if that were true, why make rules such as army wide 4+ RP, free transports, assault out of DS, superheavies in standard games, etc, etc.

Those stats are misleading without context, what is the sample size, is it significant and more importantly, as a percentage, which group buys more from them, the 20% gamers or the 80% non-gamers (or casual, idk how they are defining it).

Anyway, Ghazghull is overcosted a bit. Take away the upgrades (Power Klaw, Big Shoota and co) and he has a guaranteed WL trait, EW and 2++ on Waaaagh for I think maybe 30-35~ more than a naked Warboss.

PK/MA 40
BS 5

45pts

All ork warbosses have a guaranteed warlord trait so no go there, and Ghaz's is only special because it gives himself a 2++ for 1 turn and it allows 1 unit of MA nobz that he is attached to, to run and assault.

a nekkid warboss is 40pts. Ghaz nekkid is closer to 200.

He meant a default warlord trait which you can use to plan your strategy instead of it being random.

And regarding the costs, Ghaz is a Warboss with Cybork body, Mega Armour, Big Shoota, Power Klaw, Bosspole and Stikkbombs. A warboss with that same gear would cost around 115pts (if they could take big shootas which i think they can't) vs the 225 pts that ghaz cost.

So what does that 110 points give you? +1 WS so that MEQ HQ's can't hit you on 3's, +1 Wound, +1 Attack, 2++ for a turn, allows your MAN's to run and charge with the waagh and he is eternal warrior.

The eternal warrior alone is usually a 40ish point upgrade, so you are paying around 70 pts for all those extra stats and allowing your HQ slot to be filled with meks/painboys.

He isn't OP and maybe slightly overcosted but 90% of the special characters are so the is on par with many of them

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Am I the only that that thinks Ghazy, who is supposed to be the biggest and baddest Ork in the entire galaxy, comes across as being just too weak in game? Against most other big wigs he seems to usually come up short. Like a Warboss with mega armor and the lukky stikk are far cheaper and just about as good in a fight. I feel like such an important character should be much more of a power house than he currently is. The 2+ invuln only on the turn in which he calls a WAAAAGGHHH just does not seem enough. Same with his ghetto FNP save.

He was impressive when his rules were originally written. His rules haven't really changed however in like 7 years and 4 editions.

 MarsNZ wrote:
A marine can't kill 1000 guardsman in game either. The fluff doesn't always match up.

They can't in most fluff either

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
But if that were true, why make rules such as army wide 4+ RP, free transports, assault out of DS, superheavies in standard games, etc, etc.

Those stats are misleading without context, what is the sample size, is it significant and more importantly, as a percentage, which group buys more from them, the 20% gamers or the 80% non-gamers (or casual, idk how they are defining it).

Anyway, Ghazghull is overcosted a bit. Take away the upgrades (Power Klaw, Big Shoota and co) and he has a guaranteed WL trait, EW and 2++ on Waaaagh for I think maybe 30-35~ more than a naked Warboss.

PK/MA 40
BS 5

45pts

All ork warbosses have a guaranteed warlord trait so no go there, and Ghaz's is only special because it gives himself a 2++ for 1 turn and it allows 1 unit of MA nobz that he is attached to, to run and assault.

a nekkid warboss is 40pts. Ghaz nekkid is closer to 200.

He meant a default warlord trait which you can use to plan your strategy instead of it being random.

And regarding the costs, Ghaz is a Warboss with Cybork body, Mega Armour, Big Shoota, Power Klaw, Bosspole and Stikkbombs. A warboss with that same gear would cost around 115pts (if they could take big shootas which i think they can't) vs the 225 pts that ghaz cost.

So what does that 110 points give you? +1 WS so that MEQ HQ's can't hit you on 3's, +1 Wound, +1 Attack, 2++ for a turn, allows your MAN's to run and charge with the waagh and he is eternal warrior.

The eternal warrior alone is usually a 40ish point upgrade, so you are paying around 70 pts for all those extra stats and allowing your HQ slot to be filled with meks/painboys.

He isn't OP and maybe slightly overcosted but 90% of the special characters are so the is on par with many of them

Eternal warrior is 40 points? So what about that shield that space marines can take that gives them a 3++ or a 4++ (not sure) and eternal warrior?

And ALL Ork Warbosses come standard with a warlord trait "Waaagh" Ghaz's is the exact same except he gets a 2++ for 1 turn and if he is attached to a MANZ unit that one unit can run and assault....thats it. Cybork isnt a thing, why pay 5pts for a 6+fnp?

I would rather take a Warboss in Mega Armor (100pts) and then give him DLS for 25pts. So for 125pts I have a Warboss that hits just as hard (S10) hits 1 time fewer, at the same WS and gets to reroll to hit/wound rolls until he fails 2 of them and he is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. No he doesn't get Eternal warrior, unless I take the Waaagh Supplement Super Cybork but meh. . So math hammer wise he inflicts more casualties, the only downside? No Invul, because apparently Orks don't need invulnerable saves in CC because since they are a ranged army they never get into CC......wait.....what?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
No Invul, because apparently Orks don't need invulnerable saves in CC because since they are a ranged army they never get into CC......wait.....what?

Orks don't have invuln saves because that would prevent the heroic Beakies and Panzy Gits from winning challenges against the "bad guys".

nareik wrote:


Out of interest, how does he fair against Old Yarrik, rules wise?

Yarrick deals 0.83 wounds to Ghaz without 2++, Ghaz deals 1.38 wounds to Yarrick . Besides, Ghaz has a big shoota while Yarrick has a stormbolter. So, Ghaz has somewhat higher chances but it mostly depends on how good Yarrick throws his 3+ comebacks. Oh, and there's always a chance Ghaz will fail his 9 ld (add negative modifiers) and get swept. Yep, he's the only LOW that can realistically get swept, fall back, get pinned...all in all, enjoy all the aspects of morale that everyone seems to have forgotten by now.

And in actual games, Yarrick is a much better warlord cause he synergises well with the army, gets orders - the only character that can hide in a unit and still throw orders in the book iirc - doesn't cost too much, doesn't need a transport cause you take him in a footslogging list anywayz. While Ghaz is a 90-95 pts points more expensive than a DLS megaboss that's not much worse. They both can't handle CC powerhouses, they both die to ap2. But DLS boss is much more durable vs non-ap2, adds ws to the squad, deals more reliable damage. Yep, no EW, no +1 wound, no 2++, no running in MA... But 90-95 pt difference. That's a unit of 5 freaking lobbas or 70% of a truckboy squad.

For what Ghaz brings to the table as he is, i'd price him 170 pts. Anywayz, in current edition of mobility and shootiness it's hard to justify a slow expensive character. Heck, Abaddon is great in mellee. Yet, he's below average simply cause he's not on a bike and costs a ton of points.

Thanks for that comparison! I thought "Morale" was something you shout when your tankard runs out of Bugmans!

On the note of Abaddon I'm planning to run him in a unit of Slaanesh Bikers for majority T5, a FNP save and a way to 'sling shot' him into combat by having the bikes conga line in front of him. We'll see if the idea is any good! Perhaps Ghazzy could attempt something similar? I suppose Ghazzy has access to cheaper assault transports though?

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
But if that were true, why make rules such as army wide 4+ RP, free transports, assault out of DS, superheavies in standard games, etc, etc.

Those stats are misleading without context, what is the sample size, is it significant and more importantly, as a percentage, which group buys more from them, the 20% gamers or the 80% non-gamers (or casual, idk how they are defining it).

Anyway, Ghazghull is overcosted a bit. Take away the upgrades (Power Klaw, Big Shoota and co) and he has a guaranteed WL trait, EW and 2++ on Waaaagh for I think maybe 30-35~ more than a naked Warboss.

PK/MA 40
BS 5

45pts

All ork warbosses have a guaranteed warlord trait so no go there, and Ghaz's is only special because it gives himself a 2++ for 1 turn and it allows 1 unit of MA nobz that he is attached to, to run and assault.

a nekkid warboss is 40pts. Ghaz nekkid is closer to 200.

He meant a default warlord trait which you can use to plan your strategy instead of it being random.

And regarding the costs, Ghaz is a Warboss with Cybork body, Mega Armour, Big Shoota, Power Klaw, Bosspole and Stikkbombs. A warboss with that same gear would cost around 115pts (if they could take big shootas which i think they can't) vs the 225 pts that ghaz cost.

So what does that 110 points give you? +1 WS so that MEQ HQ's can't hit you on 3's, +1 Wound, +1 Attack, 2++ for a turn, allows your MAN's to run and charge with the waagh and he is eternal warrior.

The eternal warrior alone is usually a 40ish point upgrade, so you are paying around 70 pts for all those extra stats and allowing your HQ slot to be filled with meks/painboys.

He isn't OP and maybe slightly overcosted but 90% of the special characters are so the is on par with many of them

Eternal warrior is 40 points? So what about that shield that space marines can take that gives them a 3++ or a 4++ (not sure) and eternal warrior?

And ALL Ork Warbosses come standard with a warlord trait "Waaagh" Ghaz's is the exact same except he gets a 2++ for 1 turn and if he is attached to a MANZ unit that one unit can run and assault....thats it. Cybork isnt a thing, why pay 5pts for a 6+fnp?

I would rather take a Warboss in Mega Armor (100pts) and then give him DLS for 25pts. So for 125pts I have a Warboss that hits just as hard (S10) hits 1 time fewer, at the same WS and gets to reroll to hit/wound rolls until he fails 2 of them and he is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. No he doesn't get Eternal warrior, unless I take the Waaagh Supplement Super Cybork but meh. . So math hammer wise he inflicts more casualties, the only downside? No Invul, because apparently Orks don't need invulnerable saves in CC because since they are a ranged army they never get into CC......wait.....what?

Ork Warbosses do NOT have a Warlord Trait. They have the Waagh special rule. It is not a warlord trait but it is a special rule that can only be used if the warboss is your warlord. Ghazghkull has the prophet of the waagh warlord trait... which is a 1 on the ork warlord chart. Just wanted to clarify this that waagh is not a warlord trait

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
But if that were true, why make rules such as army wide 4+ RP, free transports, assault out of DS, superheavies in standard games, etc, etc.

Those stats are misleading without context, what is the sample size, is it significant and more importantly, as a percentage, which group buys more from them, the 20% gamers or the 80% non-gamers (or casual, idk how they are defining it).

Anyway, Ghazghull is overcosted a bit. Take away the upgrades (Power Klaw, Big Shoota and co) and he has a guaranteed WL trait, EW and 2++ on Waaaagh for I think maybe 30-35~ more than a naked Warboss.

PK/MA 40
BS 5

45pts

All ork warbosses have a guaranteed warlord trait so no go there, and Ghaz's is only special because it gives himself a 2++ for 1 turn and it allows 1 unit of MA nobz that he is attached to, to run and assault.

a nekkid warboss is 40pts. Ghaz nekkid is closer to 200.

He meant a default warlord trait which you can use to plan your strategy instead of it being random.

And regarding the costs, Ghaz is a Warboss with Cybork body, Mega Armour, Big Shoota, Power Klaw, Bosspole and Stikkbombs. A warboss with that same gear would cost around 115pts (if they could take big shootas which i think they can't) vs the 225 pts that ghaz cost.

So what does that 110 points give you? +1 WS so that MEQ HQ's can't hit you on 3's, +1 Wound, +1 Attack, 2++ for a turn, allows your MAN's to run and charge with the waagh and he is eternal warrior.

The eternal warrior alone is usually a 40ish point upgrade, so you are paying around 70 pts for all those extra stats and allowing your HQ slot to be filled with meks/painboys.

He isn't OP and maybe slightly overcosted but 90% of the special characters are so the is on par with many of them

Eternal warrior is 40 points? So what about that shield that space marines can take that gives them a 3++ or a 4++ (not sure) and eternal warrior?

And ALL Ork Warbosses come standard with a warlord trait "Waaagh" Ghaz's is the exact same except he gets a 2++ for 1 turn and if he is attached to a MANZ unit that one unit can run and assault....thats it. Cybork isnt a thing, why pay 5pts for a 6+fnp?

I would rather take a Warboss in Mega Armor (100pts) and then give him DLS for 25pts. So for 125pts I have a Warboss that hits just as hard (S10) hits 1 time fewer, at the same WS and gets to reroll to hit/wound rolls until he fails 2 of them and he is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. No he doesn't get Eternal warrior, unless I take the Waaagh Supplement Super Cybork but meh. . So math hammer wise he inflicts more casualties, the only downside? No Invul, because apparently Orks don't need invulnerable saves in CC because since they are a ranged army they never get into CC......wait.....what?

Haven't read the SM newest codex but it used to cost more than 40 pts, the chaos BL one costs 40 and gives you only EW and adamantium will so... yeah, EW is an expensive upgrade, specially on a model with 4 wounds.

As mentioned above waagh isn't a warlord traid. You need re-read the warlord trait section on the BRB it seems.

It also has 1 less wound, and the addition of a 2++ even for a turn is huge when facing equally decked assault HQs, a juggerlord for example would destroy that kustom warboss before he even gets to hit, however when facing ghaz the jugger will die for sure since ghaz should survive any number of ap2 attacks. Special characters aren't usually the most optimal point investment on their codexes, they are a mix of fluff and rules, you can't take away cybork body from ghaz since he has half of his skull made of metal (iirc) just like you can't take away the plasma pistol from kharn even thou plasma pistols are terrible.

regardless of any of that ghaz, like most of the current ork codex, is under powered, over priced and terrible.

I cant help but feel that Ghazy should have t6 at least. He is the biggest, meanest and greenest of all da orks in the galaxy, so why is a warboss on a bike tougher than him or Chaplain Cassius? Like no disrespect to Cassius, but it seems strange that he has superior toughness than ghazy.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Am I the only that that thinks Ghazy, who is supposed to be the biggest and baddest Ork in the entire galaxy, comes across as being just too weak in game? Against most other big wigs he seems to usually come up short. Like a Warboss with mega armor and the lukky stikk are far cheaper and just about as good in a fight. I feel like such an important character should be much more of a power house than he currently is. The 2+ invuln only on the turn in which he calls a WAAAAGGHHH just does not seem enough. Same with his ghetto FNP save.

He only comes across as weak because of the last two years of absurd and insane power bloat. Just a short time ago, a T5 W4 2+sv S10 character with a gob of attacks was considered quite beastly. It's only when we get things like entire armies of Knights, Decurion RP Wraiths, and Wraithknights, that Ghaz starts to look weak.

Throwing LoW back into Apocalypse solves a lot of that.

Not really. I wouldn't be scared of him regardless.