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Hi everyone, I want to make an interesting and competitive list using the ITC rules. The idea is that I've broken up the Buffmander into two squads with one being the very shooty one, and the other being more of a tank that shoots with the squads after deepstriking. This is just the rough version one list, so it'll evolve over time:

Hunter Contingent:
1x Commander [ Command and Control Node, Multi-Spectrum Snesor Suite, Stim Injector] (135)
3x Crisis Suit [2x Missile Pod, Early Warning Override] (171)
6x Fire Warriors [DS8 Turret /w Missile Pod] (64)
6x Fire Warriors [DS8 Turret /w Missile Pod] (64)
6x Fire Warriors [DS8 Turret /W Missile pod] (64)

12 Fire Warriors [DS8 Turret /W Missile Pod, Shas'ui Upgrade, Guardian Drone.] (140)
1x Cadre Fireblade (60)

1x Piranha [2x Seeker Missiles] (56)
Sniper Drone Team [3x Sniper Drones, 2x Firesight Marksman] (71)
Total: 825


Infiltration Cadre:
6x Pathfinders (66)
6x Pathfinders (66)
6x Pathfinders (66)
3x Stealth Suits (90)
3x Stealth Suits (90)
1x Piranha [2x Seeker Missiles] (56)
Total: 434 pts


Retaliation Cadre:
1x Commander [2x Plasma Rifle, Neuroweb System Jammer, Iridium Battle Suit, Stim Injector, Shield Generator.] (182)
3x Crisis Suit [2x Plasma Rifles, Counterfire Defense System] (171)
1x Crisis Suit [2x Fusion Blaster] (52)
1x Crisis Suit [2x Fusion Blaster] (52)
1x Riptide [Plasma Rifle, Ion Accelerator, Stim Injector, Early Warning Override] (225)
2x Railsides (130)
Total: 590

Grand Total: 1849

Well it isn't competitive that's for sure.

From the top why no PEn Chip on Batman?

Why 4 units of Firewarriors and a Fireblade? Massive investment in not a huge amount of firepower and very little that benefits from coordinated firepower.

Sniper team but no Marker drones to coordinate with seems odd too. Piranha could be swapped over.

Infiltration Cadre is awful. I know you've taken it for bringing the Retaliation Cadre in early but it only makes a difference if you go 2nd AND your opponent fires at it. Now you have 434 points to do that which is bringing little else to the table. I don't really see what in the list massively needs MLs and you could use CF to do that job cheaper and better. Whilst the seeker benefit is a bit meh as it is often wasted due to a unit with 3 MLs on it should be killed by your unit using those tokens anyway.

Tank Commander with plasma suits is OK. But no target locks hurts their effectiveness and lack the ability to join effectively with CF which is a massive issue for your entire army.

The 2 solosuits and Riptide likewise need a drone and a target lock so they can join the CF attack. Stims on the Riptide aren't needed.

Railsides really? Why? When the last book dropped in 6th Missilesides were miles better than Railsides and the only change since then is the Railsides have got worse.

So in short you've got very little benefit from CF which is essential to making Tau competitive. You've got loads of MLs in inefficient ways that aren't really needed. Whilst you have an abundance of S5 fire which you've over invested in. The core concept of the 2 Commanders is fine. But drop the infiltration Cadre and gear your list to take more advantage of coordinated firepower.

The PEN Chip was an oversight as I was debating which Commander to put it on at first, so I'll have to slot it in.

I like the fire power Fire Warriors provide, especially since each squad can now have a Missile Pod in it at the same cost as a generic Fire Warrior. The Fireblade team is an attempt to try out the Guardian Drone while also having 26 Pulse Rifle shots at full range, in addition to a Missile Pod, and 2 of those shots can be converted into a BS5 Markerlight from the Fireblade himself that has Split fire. The smaller squads also help in that they're rather cheap and can contribute to CF more.

I'm a little confused as to how the Sniper team would benefit a Marker Drone team, can you elaborate?

Yea, I'm not sold on the Infiltration Cadre, it's more that I wanted to take some Piranhas as Seeker platforms that could contribute to CF by dismounting their drones and counting as two units targeting so they could buff another unit. This would mean that the only tax I was paying was taking the two units of Stealth Suits in exchange for the potential of bringing in my Ret Cadre in even sooner and free Seekers, since turn 1 I'd probably be using Markers to shoot off the Piranha Seekers in an alpha strike, as opposed to buffing things too much, due to the Ret Cadre coming in turn 2, so the bonus Seeker was nice. I could always still take the Piranhas and then use Auxiliaries for Marker Drone teams, but it'd be a little more awkward due to not having a Mark'O.

I'm a little confused about why I'd want the target locks and drones? I get that it gives them the ability to gain +1 BS and then shoot at something else, though really that seems like a rather large points investment, along with losing a support system, when for about the same points you can simply take a Piranha and use the drone dismount to give them the same +1 BS. Basically it's 32 points for the Drone plus Target Locks, and 40 for a Piranha that comes with 2 drones.

I like the idea of taking a drone and target lock on the Fusion Suits and even the Riptide. I personally really like the Stim Injector on the Riptide as it makes it that much harder to kill, and it actually allows you to survive some of the bad Nova Reactor rolls.

Yea, you're right, the Railsides still aren't good, even with the extra BS point when deep striking and Relentless. I wish they'd be better, but oh well the the Missile Sides are just the better choice, I was just really hoping that with all the extra missiles in the squads and stuff the Rails would be better, but losing a total of 6 shots for a little gain isn't that good, especially with the Fusion Suits.

Dropping the Infiltration Cadre is probably the correct play, the Stealth Suit tax is just too high really, especially when I can get a Ghostkeel with those points or something. I think it would actually be a really solid formation if it only required one unit of Stealth Suits instead of two :/.

I'd put the PEN Chip on the buffsuit.

The Guardian drone is pretty pointless a 6++ is rarely going to make a difference on a T3 4+ unit. You'll often have a better cover or armour save anyway. Remember the model with splirfire doesn't have to be the one that splits off so you can fire the MP in the big squad at an AV12/13 target whilst the FWs shoot something else. Though that unit is 200 points for 26 S5 shots at 1 target (38 at half range). For 220 you could get 4 units of FWs with SMS for 36 S5 at 30" and 56 S5 at half range. If you're wanting S5 spam that is a better option though still wouldn't be my choice for competitive Tau.

Do combined Firepower between a Sniper Team and a Marker drone team. You now have Bs5 Marker Drones without the expense of a commander.

The Infiltration Cadre is a lot of points for not a lot of benefit. You have the Ret Cadre so don't need the auxiliary. You can take Piranhas in your Hunter Cadre if you want them. You don't need MLs as you have a batmansuit and you don't have a Stormsurge (no GMCs in ITC of I remember correctly). If you did just grab a drone squad for bs5 MLs. Stealthsuits can be good if they ignore cover and are Bs4 hitting rear armour... Otherwise no thanks.

The drones and target locks give your units twinlinked and ignores cover, you're not too bothered about the +1 Bs though that is also useful. Join all the units with the missile unit in a CF so they all get twinlinked ignore cover and +1bs (note if both the Piranhas join in then they and the Riptide get a further +1 Bs due to fire team). Their units have to shoot the same target so their drone does shoot said target allowing them to split off with their target lock and blow something else up. Marker drones work best on normal suits due to range (remember the drone must be in range of the designated target). That is 17 points on a normal suit 30 on the Riptide (which still makes him 5 points less than current config).

Ok, so I see why we disagree on the list so much now. I'm using the ITC rules format as that's the largest tournament circuit for 40k, and as far as I know they ruled that the only benefits you gain from Coordinated Fire is the +1BS and the sharing of Markerlights, so all of the things you're trying to do with the Buffmander buffs, Drone Controller, and more won't work in their rule set.

Sorry didn't know ITC had made yet another stupid ruling.

I actually think it's a brilliant ruling.

What taking a clear unambiguous rule and completely changing it for no reason? In what world is that a good ruling?

Eh, the wording is a little murky, though that's not really an important debate. The reason the ruling is good, is because it takes an otherwise utterly broken rule and reduces the power level so that it's still competitive and not either broken or useless.

The wording is not even remotely murky that argument is the domain of cowards. If ITC went through every codex and even handedly adjusted points/rules to create better balance that would be 1 thing. To arbitrarily decide this midtier codexes good rule needs to not do anything whilst this top tier codexes good rule is fine and dandy is just dumb.