Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'll cut to the chase, here's the list, from Atlantik Wall.


Company HQ - 2ic panzerfaust

Grenadier platoon - 3 squads

Grenadier Platoon - 3 squads

Grenadier anti tank gun platoon - 2 Pak40's.

4 minefields - 4 HMG nests

SS Panzer platoon - 5 Panzer IV's

SS panzergrenadier Platoon - 3 squads

Grenadier ASssault gun platoon - 3 StuG G's

Rocket launcher battery - 1 section with 3 15cm NW41


All in all it's 1740 by my calculations. I have a little of everything, apart from AA. I could take out the Pak 40's for some AA, but as a defense heavy list what do you guys think?

Check the rules about deploying armoured units in fortified lists, iirc you won't be able to deploy the armour platoons in missions with prepared positions. So do you want two platoons?
Secondly 7 platoons = 3 deployed 4 off table. In some missions people will just pick off your reserves to win.
Thirdly, you have nothing above AT12, means you'll struggle against things like Churchill crocodiles or other high front armour units.
Hope it helps

I would replace the pak's with 88s if the points allow. You get great AT and AA support.

Not having the book in front of me but loving my C-T grenadiers, from the Earth & Steel days into Atlantic Wall..

How are you planning on running this? Obviously defensive, guessing two objectives, each getting a couple of minefields & HMG plus an infantry platoon, the Pak40 being the choice for ambushing, and in half on/half off thats it with the rest in reserves, all decently mobile except the NW41 which can hide and work ok on foot.

Things that will hurt you:
- lack of recce to divert enemy tank destroyers, infiltration and spearhead deployments, missions where you don't get to start on the objectives will be difficult as your starter forces are not that mobile or that bulky.
- Lack of panzerfaust in the grenadiers, if you are on the objectives apart from your Pak40 you have little to stop the enemy getting close before reserves arrive - either a few more Pak40 (so the volley they have will at like a deathly to at least one enemy tank platoon and cause a bit of caution - delay working in your favour) or an extra platoon of some sort so you can have four on to start with. Putting panzerfaust in the infantry (even just one) can scare smaller enemy tank platoons.
- Lack of tank assault 3+, combines with the point made about no AT:12+, you need something to keep Churchills honest, personally I prefer the assault option over heavy anti tank guns which can be killed at range.


You should do well against an infantry force, and decently against an enemy who hesitates long enough for the reserves to arrive, but a fast moving armoured force will walk over you in half on/half off missions before you can stop them - going round the minefields.

As you note its defensive heavy, but you avoid the usual trap of nothing to attack with. The SS panzers could work nicely, especially with the StuG nearby, but they are oh so fragile for the points.


Suggestions:
- unless you are heart set on the fortifications drop them, replace with a HMG platoon you can combat attach into the infantry, same fire output but harder to kill as they hit them on your skill not theirs.
- Add a small flak platoon (the 2cm Flak38 is decent and cheap)
- Add a foot recce platoon - useful for the recce move to counter enemy deployments and to get to a remote objective you try to hold quickly.
this gets you to nine platoons, eight after the HMG attach so four on/four off
- put Panzerfaust into the infantry

none of that should be overly expensive and should be covered by dropping the fortifications, indeed leaving more points for some extra bits, perhaps extra NW41 or maybe some cheap infantry guns, aim to have ten platoons, five defensive to start with being:
- grenadiers, inc HMG
- grenadiers, inc HMG
- scouts
- pak40
- infantry guns

which should be able to hold ground, then you have a nice counter attack force for the enemy to worry about and have to cover against.

Best bet though, try it.

The main focus of the list really is to use what I've got without having to add too much more to make up the points value.

I could add a HMG platoon, as long as no one would object to painting SS HMG's as grenadiers.



1715 points, looks like this.



Company HQ - 2 panzerfaust teams, panzerschreck team.

2 Grenadier Platoons - three squads each, Panzerfaust command teams.

Grenadier Machine gun platoon

Grenadier scout platoon

Grenadier anti-tank gun platoon - 2 PaK40's

SS Panzer platoon - 5 Panzer IV's

Artillery Anti-tank gun platoon - 2 PaK43 88's.

SS panzer grenadier platoon - three squads

Rocket battery - 1 section, three NW41's

Anti aircraft platoon - 3 2cm FlaK38's


How do you guys think this would work? I had to remove the stug's to get the better anti-tank. and by juggling points around I managed to get some panzerfausts in there.

I think that's a lot more viable. SS HMG as grenadiers, long as you point it out doubt people will have a problem, even in SS colours.

Using what you already have is a good way to go it has to be said, just be ready to evolve it over time


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yes the pak43 is brutal, but unlike the flak36 it can at least be concealed. Never used them but they are scary, and with the pak40 makes it hard to avoid both

Only things I don't have are the SS grenadiers, HMG platoon, AA and 88's.

The reason I asked about SS as grenadiers is that you get HMG's in the SS company/platoon box.

Are you thinking of the SS grenadiers or panzer grenadiers?

Have you considered as an alternative purchase pioneers, on attack they have flame throwers, on defence barbed wire.

If you haven't git the 88's I'd consider more pak 40's personally but keep the smaller aa

After looking at your list on Atlantik Wall, I have some suggestions. You have some of th German win buttons in this list, its quite good in fact.

1. Brummbar. Any list that allows these underpriced bad boys is tempting. Yes Brummbar are cheap for a reason, they have downsides, but they are very solid and hit hard If nothing else they will serve as perfect fire magnets.

2. Maultiers. If you want rockets take the mobile version, and always buy extra crew. Doing this makes them cheaper on a cost per effective launcher than even Nebelwerfers.

3. Jagdpanther. Expensive but if you want to kill heavy tanks these have you covered.

Other observations.

You have a lot of Panzer IV's and pais extra for SS, both are a bad idea. SS Tigers are worth the extra Panzer IVs are not, besides what are they to do. You have very mobile tanks with mediocopre guns in a fairly static list. Panzeerr IVs are for Panzerkompanie and work well as they are cheap so they boost numbers to reasonable levels. But in an infantery list they have little to offer. You would be better off with Pak40's and StuGs.

The list chosen has two versions, one with Festungs the other without, both have the same components. Festungs are good for making sure you know you are defending, and choosing your force accordingly. The assets you have chosen would fare better in the regular Grenardier list. Festungs are 30% of your points just for a minimum investment. I think you can do better by buying Pioneers with supply wagon.

In any footslogger list you need three basic infantry platoons. Keep your numbers up and play to their strengths. Make the third platoon pioneers, buy exrtra pioneers both platoons with supply wagons for some budget festungs for your list.

For your company command: Dont give all the HQ panzerfausts, you need the 1iC to hide, panzerfausts arent for hiding. Its ok to too, up the 2iC, or reverse so long as one of the two stands is hiding. Consider adding one sniper team, but before you dop buy the mortars. Two mortars for 40pts is a bargain because they can provide minimum cost smoke. Dont expect them to kill anything, buy them to smoke and nothing else. A mortar platoon will cost you over double for the same job.

Do take the MG platoon and split it into the other infantry platoons to boost their size.

What do you expect Panzergrenardiers to do in this list?