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Hello again Dakka, I'm sure you're all probably sick of me by now, but I need some opinions. I'm about to start collecting my army of IG but I can't decide between these 2 army lists. They both seem fun. I'll probably end up collecting both eventually, but I need one sooner to go to a tournament coming up. Cheers all

---LIST 1---

- Emperor's Fist Armoured Company
+ Pask in a Vanquisher w/ Lascannon, along w/ another Vanquisher w/ Lascannon in his squad
+ Demolisher
+ Demolisher
+ Battle Tank
+ Enginseer

- Emperor's Blade Assault Company
+ Company Command Squad w/ Carapace, 3x Flamers, 1 Heavy Flamer in a Chimera w/ turret and hull mounted Heavy Flamer
+ Grenadier vets w/ 2x plasma in a Chimera
+ Grenadier vets w/ 2x melta in a Chimera
+ Grenadier vets w/ 2x melta in a Chimera
+ Hellhound
+ Hellhound

Inquisitional Formation
- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor w/ ML1, Bolt Pistol, Force Sword

---LIST 2---

CADIAN BATTLE GROUP

Command
- Company Command Squad (not enough points for him to have a Chimera so he's gunna be lolling around to die as orders are pointless in this list anyway)

Core
- Emperor's Fist Armoured Company
+ Pask in a Vanquisher w/ Lascannon, along w/ another Vanquisher in his squad
+ Demolisher
+ Battle Tank
+ Battle Tank
+ Enginseer

Auxiliary
- Emperor's Spear Aerial Company
+ Valk w/ Rocket Pods
+ Valk w/ Rocket Pods
+ Vendetta

- Militarum Tempestus Platoon
+ Command Squad w/ Medi-Pack and 3x Plasma (sit in the Vendetta)
+ 9x Scions w/ 2x Melta (sit in a Valk)
+ 9x Scions w/ 2x Volley-guns (perhaps flamers? Or could be plasma if I got rid of 5pts somehow) (sit in a Valk)

Inquisitional Formation
- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor w/ ML1, Bolt Pistol, Force Sword and 3x Servoskulls (joins the volley-gun scions in their Valk)

I like the look of the first one better; it gets you a nice amount of mechvets if you want to run a CAD at some point. The second list, however, has air support which will come in handy quite frequently.

In either list you should drop the CCS to save points. It's not required for either of those formations as they're stand-alone and you won't be getting any benefits from the Decurion bonuses. That's 125 points in the first list and 60 in the second that you could spend elsewhere.

I would use those points to change one of the LRBT to another Demomisher. Demolishers work well in tandem, as otherwise people see that S10AP2 blast and kill it dead quick. Two will ensure you get to survive long enough to get a couple shots off, and if one gets swarmed by a melee unit you can drop that pie plate right in the offending unit.

That's a really good suggestion GreenShoes. With that 125 points, I could also buy a 3rd Hellhound, or do you think the Demolisher is more worth while? Upgrading to the Demolisher leaves me with 105pts to spend. Perhaps adding an inquisitor and retinue could benefit the list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, changes made to the first list:

- Got rid of the CCS in the Chimera so that it is no longer a Battle Group, but is instead just the Formations
- Upgraded a BT to another Demolisher
- Added Lascannon to Vanquisher in Pask's squad
- Gave the CCS within the Assault Company Carapace armour, 3x Flamers and a Heavy Flamer
- Swapped the CCS's Chimera Multi-Laser and hull mounted heavy bolter w/ heavy flamers
- Added an Inquisitor w/ ML1, bolt pistol and force sword

That's s great use of those points! Good balance and an aggressive, mobile list! Again, flyers are gonna be tough but in personal experience I normally roll the dice on not even having to fight any or ignoring what is taken against me. I say roll with what you've got there, tho! Happy hunting!

Thanks GreenShoes! And thanks again for the suggestions

I really like the looks of list 1. Do you mind if I copy it?
I have a tonne of infantry models but having the Emperor's Shield Company is completely nonviable at 1850 points.

 Cadichan Support wrote:
I really like the looks of list 1. Do you mind if I copy it?
I have a tonne of infantry models but having the Emperor's Shield Company is completely nonviable at 1850 points.

Go for it man
It's a shame infantry suck at later pts levels. Luckily I love me some tanks

Yes go with list one.

As for list 2 it's kinda pointless. If you are running the battle group you need to make use of its benefits otherwise it makes no sense in running it.

So make sure you have a ccs and enough units for him to issues his orders to. As well as make sure you have plenty of lasguns and hot shot lasguns for the reroll ones!

Yeah I'm going with list 1. Much more synergy and seems like a lot of fun too

So there are problems with list 1 if you are going to take it to a tournament.

Firstly, I do not think that your russes are properly equipped. The variants you have chosen are very expensive and do not help you deal with your main nemesis: monstrous creatures/gargantuan monstrous creatures.

Secondly, you do not have much long-range ignores cover shooting, meaning that jet bike eldar and mounted assault/raven wing marines will get the jump on you and have the ability to hit you from beyond your effective range.

Thirdly, you have minimal protection for your armored investment from things like drop pods and scouting white scars grav bikes/storm wolf cavlary.

Fourth and finally, the number of chimera hulls you are bringing does not provide the target saturation you need (IMO) to let them live long enough to make a significant difference in the game.

To remedy these short comings, I recommend the following in order of priority:

1. You need a large body of guardsmen. I suggest a 40 strong blob of either conscripts or regular guardsmen to provide cover for your tanks as they either advance up the field or hide from podding melta-gunners turn 1. Bubble wrap will protect you from bikers and pods

2. More long-range ignores cover. This could be in the form of wyverns, the artillery formation, artillery carriages from forgeworld, or the eradicator variant of the leman russ.

3. Servo skulls on the inquisitor. These little guys are amazing.

4. If your group lets you (RAW is not friendly here) I would take leman russ thunderer siege tanks in place of the demolisher tanks. They are 140 points and have a hull (rather than turret) mounted demolisher cannon and no hull heavy bolter. For 30 points, it's a solid exchange.

5. Drop the armored core. If you want armor (and it's fun/cool) take your tanks from the imperial armor 1 armored company list. Specifically, tank commanders in vanquishers with beast hunter shells are MEAN. They can force rerolls on cover saves, have instant death, and make your leman russes objective secured.

6. If you really want to stick with the battle group, you need to get a battle group command, either another tank commander or a company command squad. In both this case and with your veteran company, you need to equip them to punish units who assaulted your russes. Essentially, your AV 14 tanks are bait to pull the enemy in close before you pounce with exceptionally strong short range shooting from the veterans.

I am proposing radical changes to your list, for which I apologize, but if you take what's listed up there to an event where winning is important to you/the other contestants, you may be disappointed. Most important change is the inclusion of an infantry platoon to shield the tanks.

-Ether

Ether wrote:


I am proposing radical changes to your list, for which I apologize, but if you take what's listed up there to an event where winning is important to you/the other contestants, you may be disappointed. Most important change is the inclusion of an infantry platoon to shield the tanks.

-Ether

To be fair, if you take pure Guard to a tournament expecting to win overall, you're just gonna be disappointed, regardless of what's in the list.

I don't disagree with your suggestions, Ether, as I make use of practically all of them myself, but I try to assume that people who build lists with certain units have a fondness for said units, so telling them to basically change the whole thing is like telling them they can only have fun by winning and crushing their opponents. If he likes MecVets and the tank detachment, he can use it. Expecting a new player to have access to the IA books and understand all the tricky nuances and combos for the army is asking a bit much.

I agree with all the changes you put forward Ether. But I'm going more for fun and a bit of competitive, more than full competitive. As GreenShoes said, I've chosen the units in this because I like them.

I love Leman Russes, so the more I can smash into a list the better, however I also loved the idea of mech vets with Hellhounds, as I was reading the graphic novel "Fire and Honour" just before the formation came out. When I saw it was a formation with special rules, I couldn't resist. Seeing both a tank formation AND the vets, I really liked the idea of it and seeing it as a list, it looks like it'd be a lot of fun, even if I lose probably half the time to stupid... stupid Eldar.

P.S. I'm totally going to be modelling my CCS Captain as Cpt. Hawkins and having my Vets the 71st Hellhounds

Awesome dude, sounds like they'll look great! Let me just push the blob again. If you cut a hellhound, drop psyker off the inquisitor, and streamline your russes, you can use those 230 points to snag a cheap blob. The inquisitor an chill with them to make sure they do't run away.

I heard that Hellhounds work best in pares. Wouldn't the one be taken out pretty quickly? And without the Demolishers, I'm lacking anti-TEQ. Can't use the Siege tanks because I want to avoid Forge World. Something else I could cut down on for the blob?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, what about this:

HQ
- CCS w/ Carapace, 2x flamers, 1x heavy flamer in chimera w/ 2x heavy flamers

- Pask in a Vanquisher w/ Lascannon, second Vanquisher w/ same loadout in squad

TROOPS
- Platoon
+ PCS
+ Squad 1 w/ Autocannon
+ Squad 2 w/ Autocannon
+ Squad 3 w/ Autocannon

- Grenadiers w/ 2x Plasma in a chimera

- Grenadiers w/ 2x Melta in a chimera

- Grenadiers w/ 2x Melta in a chimera

FAST ATTACK
- Hellhound

- Hellhound

HEAVY SUPPORT
- Demolisher

- Battle Tank

Inquisitional Formation
- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor w/ ML1, bolt pistol, force sword and 2x Servoskulls

Basically get everything I wanted, +guard blob. Only minuses 1 tank