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djones520 wrote: So why aren't we up in arms about Canada, Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, and how they require it?
Because they aren't America? That's like saying "Why aren't we complaining about the UK's gun laws?" in defense of US gun restrictions.
The point is voter id disenfranching voters is absolute crap. Most nations in the world have it, to include many nations that we consider free. Hell, we have frequent arguments on here about how some of those nations are "free'er" then we are.
Sigvatr wrote: I don't get the problem with voter ID. How hard is it to get any sort of official ID in the US if you are a legal citizen?
It can be quite hard, especially if officials make it that way. Watch the video in a little bit (I think around 1:40) that's one person just trying to get an ID solely to vote. Compound that with the fact that laws like this serve no actual purpose (talks about it at 6:45).
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Sigvatr wrote: I don't get the problem with voter ID. How hard is it to get any sort of official ID in the US if you are a legal citizen?
It's not hard to get them. In fact, it's harder to live here without them.
Fun fact - - I just got married. Do you know what I had to show? TWO forms of government issued IDs: -Social Security Card -Government issued IDs (ie, Drivers License, Military ID, etc..)
Wouldn't you think your *right* to get married is a weee bit more important/life changing than exercising your voting rights?
And yet, your marriage isn't recognized unless you show the necessary IDsat the government officeto get the required paperworks isn't championed as some sort of 'disenfranchisement' of certain people!?!?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/18 22:11:24
I'd say voting is far more important than government recognized marriages. I would, in fact, say that it, and the first amendment, are our most important rights.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I'd say voting is far more important than government recognized marriages. I would, in fact, say that it, and the first amendment, are our most important rights.
Then if you believe it's so important, then you should champion VoterID laws as it's meant to prevent bogus ballots cast by foreigners, impersonators and frauds.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I'd say voting is far more important than government recognized marriages. I would, in fact, say that it, and the first amendment, are our most important rights.
Then if you believe it's so important, then you should champion VoterID laws as it's meant to prevent bogus ballots cast by foreigners, impersonators and frauds.
As always, how many bogus ballots are actually cast in elections?
Voter ID is terrible because the only places to get valid voter IDs will magically appear in areas almost inaccessible to minorities and the lower classes. They are simple yet another method of disenfranchising poor and minority voters by Republicans.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I'd say voting is far more important than government recognized marriages. I would, in fact, say that it, and the first amendment, are our most important rights.
Then if you believe it's so important, then you should champion VoterID laws as it's meant to prevent bogus ballots cast by foreigners, impersonators and frauds.
No, because the only type of voter fraud that ID laws stop are impersonation, which is practically non-existent. If you watched the video, you would see that there were 5 votes out of 1.4M in SC that were unaccounted for. 5
And the number for people without access to ID, (from the video)in Texas, 500,000 , NC and Wisconsin at 300,000 each, and 200,000 in Virginia.
So, it's a law that does nothing good, and impinges on people rights. If they were trying to make election fairer and more open, this is not what they would do.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I'd say voting is far more important than government recognized marriages. I would, in fact, say that it, and the first amendment, are our most important rights.
Then if you believe it's so important, then you should champion VoterID laws as it's meant to prevent bogus ballots cast by foreigners, impersonators and frauds.
As always, how many bogus ballots are actually cast in elections?
31 out of 1B cast.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/18 22:28:16
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Verviedi wrote: Voter ID is terrible because the only places to get valid voter IDs will magically appear in areas almost inaccessible to minorities and the lower classes. They are simple yet another method of disenfranchising poor and minority voters by Republicans.
So you're saying that these minorities and lower classes won't be able to get married too?
Verviedi wrote: Voter ID is terrible because the only places to get valid voter IDs will magically appear in areas almost inaccessible to minorities and the lower classes. They are simple yet another method of disenfranchising poor and minority voters by Republicans.
So you're saying that these minorities and lower classes won't be able to get married too?
So you're saying that these laws are necessary when they do nothing to actually prevent the problem of people being on the voter rolls and being able to vote in the first place?
We've done this dance before, Whembly. Every time it comes down to one simple fact:
These laws won't stop voter fraud if the person is on the voter rolls.
Verviedi wrote: Voter ID is terrible because the only places to get valid voter IDs will magically appear in areas almost inaccessible to minorities and the lower classes. They are simple yet another method of disenfranchising poor and minority voters by Republicans.
So you're saying that these minorities and lower classes won't be able to get married too?
They must not smoke, drink or live in buildings either. Or drive cars. Or collect welfare.
Verviedi wrote: Voter ID is terrible because the only places to get valid voter IDs will magically appear in areas almost inaccessible to minorities and the lower classes. They are simple yet another method of disenfranchising poor and minority voters by Republicans.
So you're saying that these minorities and lower classes won't be able to get married too?
They must not smoke, drink or live in buildings either. Or drive cars. Or collect welfare.
Right, because we haven't seen them attempt to make certain forms of ID that can be used for some of those ineligible for voter ID.
I thought the USA was the home of the free? Compared to Britain, you guys are enslaved
At elections, I don't even have to turn up with ID to vote. It's the same guy on the desk who's know me for years. He checks my name on the list, hands me a voting card and away I go.
To get married over here, all you need is a passport and two witnesses, who can be total strangers dragged off the streets
Our kids can get drunk at 18, and not have to wait until they're 21
And our gun laws are the most open on earth. You can own any firearm you want: rifle, machine gun, rocket launcher etc etc, as long as it's made from potato chips
Home of the brave? land of the free? It's a myth. You Americans need some Freeeeddoooom
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Actually, that's a lot what it's like in states w/o ID laws. You will register in your district and, when it comes voting time, you go to the assigned polling place. At that point they check your name and you so whatever that area does for voting. During the local elections we used a sort of multiple choice test thing (filling in bubbles with a pencil that they run through a machine), but they may have to drag out the old lever-operated voting machines depending on state law.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Right, because we haven't seen them attempt to make certain forms of ID that can be used for some of those ineligible for voter ID.
Oh I don't necessarily agree with voter ID laws (I don't really pay much attention to the issue), but I do find it interesting that it is claimed that one reason for enacting them is to restrict the voting rights of a certain demographic, when that certain demographic frequently engages in activity that requires photo ID.
Sigvatr wrote: I don't get the problem with voter ID. How hard is it to get any sort of official ID in the US if you are a legal citizen?
First, why bother commenting in a video without watching it? I mean, this was covered within the first like, 3 minutes of the video.
Second, one of the things he didn't speak to in the video was the expense. I needed to get my birth certificate a few years ago after my original got lost. To get a birth certificate for someone born in NYC, one needs to only pay the $15 fee, plus a $8.30 processing fee (lol, what was the first fee for). Of course, they can't mail it through the mail - they have to send it UPS only, which is another $15. So, nearly $40 for my birth certificate.
If I didn't have a driver's license, which of course people with ID don't, all I'd have to do is take a day off work to sit around the DMV, because my DMV isn't open on the weekends. Then pay another $10 fee.
These are real hardships for people who are just barely keeping the lights on and buying ramen and peanut butter. It's a day of work off, along with another 8 hours worth of wages at minimum wage.
It's absolutely undeniable that people will and are disenfranchised by these laws; and it's also undeniable that the problem that it's trying to address is statistically non-existent. However, I guess this is one example of commonsense legislation to make the nation safer at the cost of some of our rights that some of us are OK with.
Anyway, when we start getting into how people need ID to live anyway, and how you can't buy X without an ID, and so on, I point you to the link that D-USA posted above, because there is generally no new information or ideas ever to be had in these comments, I only piped in because John Oliver never mentioned that getting the paperwork for the ID is, in my opinion, surprisingly expensive.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Sigvatr wrote: I don't get the problem with voter ID. How hard is it to get any sort of official ID in the US if you are a legal citizen?
First, why bother commenting in a video without watching it? I mean, this was covered within the first like, 3 minutes of the video.
Second, one of the things he didn't speak to in the video was the expense. I needed to get my birth certificate a few years ago after my original got lost. To get a birth certificate for someone born in NYC, one needs to only pay the $15 fee, plus a $8.30 processing fee (lol, what was the first fee for). Of course, they can't mail it through the mail - they have to send it UPS only, which is another $15. So, nearly $40 for my birth certificate.
If I didn't have a driver's license, which of course people with ID don't, all I'd have to do is take a day off work to sit around the DMV, because my DMV isn't open on the weekends. Then pay another $10 fee.
These are real hardships for people who are just barely keeping the lights on and buying ramen and peanut butter. It's a day of work off, along with another 8 hours worth of wages at minimum wage.
It's absolutely undeniable that people will and are disenfranchised by these laws; and it's also undeniable that the problem that it's trying to address is statistically non-existent. However, I guess this is one example of commonsense legislation to make the nation safer at the cost of some of our rights that some of us are OK with.
Anyway, when we start getting into how people need ID to live anyway, and how you can't buy X without an ID, and so on, I point you to the link that D-USA posted above, because there is generally no new information or ideas ever to be had in these comments, I only piped in because John Oliver never mentioned that getting the paperwork for the ID is, in my opinion, surprisingly expensive.
Then those people must not have a job either. You are required to provide two forms of identification to be legally employed.
Anybody who can't provide an ID probably can't get a job either. Or they're not even going to bother voting, because hey thats a day they have to take off of work if the polling place is a good distance away(I think voting days should be mandatory days off of work IMO).
So sure, IDs might cost money to acquire, but you literally cannot function in our society without them.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
skyth wrote: You can be self employed and not need ID.
I suppose. But are you also self-employed, don't have a car, don't rent/own property, etc...
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
skyth wrote: You can be self employed and not need ID.
And it's also possible that they don't use tobacco, drink alcohol, cash checks, or drive anywhere, ever.
When we get down to it, the number of hairs we're splitting are getting pretty ridiculous, especially when you take into account how laughable our voter turnout in this nation really is. The incredibly small percentage of people who would face a true "hardship" in getting this is so small that it's ridiculous, and honestly if someone wants to vote, they will make it happen.
If I went through the effort to get my registration updated, and cast my vote from Kyrgyzstan, the amount of pity I'm going to feel for someone who had to spend half an hour at the DMV is pretty damn low.
I mean this argument is just ridiculous. I've spent multiple deployments where my job involved getting F-16's and B-1's into the sky so they could deliver bombs onto people who were trying to blow up voters. These were voters who faced the very real prospect of being murdered for the simple act of voting, and we're here fighting over how hard it would be for someone to get a card with their picture on it before they can vote.
Our societies views on somethings tends to upset me sometimes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/19 01:00:18
skyth wrote: You can be self employed and not need ID.
And it's also possible that they don't use tobacco, drink alcohol, cash checks, or drive anywhere, ever.
When we get down to it, the number of hairs we're splitting are getting pretty ridiculous, especially when you take into account how laughable our voter turnout in this nation really is. The incredibly small percentage of people who would face a true "hardship" in getting this is so small that it's ridiculous, and honestly if someone wants to vote, they will make it happen.
If I went through the effort to get my registration updated, and cast my vote from Kyrgyzstan, the amount of pity I'm going to feel for someone who had to spend half an hour at the DMV is pretty damn low.
I mean this argument is just ridiculous. I've spent multiple deployments where my job involved getting F-16's and B-1's into the sky so they could deliver bombs onto people who were trying to blow up voters. These were voters who faced the very real prospect of being murdered for the simple act of voting, and we're here fighting over how hard it would be for someone to get a card with their picture on it before they can vote.
Our societies views on somethings tends to upset me sometimes.
skyth wrote: You can be self employed and not need ID.
And it's also possible that they don't use tobacco, drink alcohol, cash checks, or drive anywhere, ever.
When we get down to it, the number of hairs we're splitting are getting pretty ridiculous, especially when you take into account how laughable our voter turnout in this nation really is. The incredibly small percentage of people who would face a true "hardship" in getting this is so small that it's ridiculous, and honestly if someone wants to vote, they will make it happen.
If I went through the effort to get my registration updated, and cast my vote from Kyrgyzstan, the amount of pity I'm going to feel for someone who had to spend half an hour at the DMV is pretty damn low.
I mean this argument is just ridiculous. I've spent multiple deployments where my job involved getting F-16's and B-1's into the sky so they could deliver bombs onto people who were trying to blow up voters. These were voters who faced the very real prospect of being murdered for the simple act of voting, and we're here fighting over how hard it would be for someone to get a card with their picture on it before they can vote.
Our societies views on somethings tends to upset me sometimes.
So are you arguing for or against voter ID?
He's arguing that it's okay if voting is nearly impossible because our voter turnout is terrible and unstable dictatorships have it harder, you know... like it says in the Constitution.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/19 02:08:24
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
