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So, I have been invited to a city league tournament of sorts and wanted to join. Format is simple, 12 players play for some months and get at the end some nifty rewards offered by the store owner. So, after some thinking, I have decided to participate with a multi eldar list if they allowed multiple detachments. On a short email, I asked some questions about what kind of lists they were allowing and so far this seems legal to them. They allow multi-CAD lists as long as the detachments don't come from the same codex, which I find amusing, and they allow formation detachments too. They are playing 1850 points per list and have some different restrictions that fortunately don't apply to the list I am planning.

So I had this idea about a leadership-penalties based army, I thought it was original, then I browsed the forums and found out it wasn't and even has the "freakshow" label. Meh, but I pinky swear I got the idea on my own first. Given that I play both Eldar and Dark Eldar, (mechdar and Venomspam), I wanted to mix both on it, with a lil Harlequin sauce on the side to spice things up.

However, I have found some issues, not because I don't find useful units to play, but because I have too many options and not enough points, and I want to ask this community about the best options I can choose.

I'll explain what options are being hard for me to choose between after the list. So far the project goes like this:

Dark Eldar CAD
652

HQ:
Succubus 150
Archite Glaive
Haywire Grenades
The Armor of Misery
Splinter Pistol
Webway Portal

Troops:
7x Kabalite Warriors 131
Raider with Disintegrator, Chain Snares and Night Shields

7x Kabalite Warriors 131
Raider with Disintegrator, Chain Snares and Night Shields

Fast Attack:
5x Scourges 120
4x Sourges with Haywire Blasters

5x Scourges 120
4x Sourges with Haywire Blasters


Eldar Craftworlds CAD
912

HQ:
Autarch 90
Banshee Mask
Power Axe

Farseer 130
Jetbike
Spirit Stone of Anal'Tan

Troops:
Windriders 101
3x Shuriken Catapults
1X Jetbike Warlock

Windriders 81
3x Shuriken Cannons

Fast Attack:
Crimson Hunter 140

Hemlock Wraithfighter 185

Hemlock Wraithfighter 185


Harlequin Formation Detachment 285
Cast of Players:

Death Jester 60

Shadowseer 100
ML 2
The Mask of Secrets

Troupe 125
Troupe Master with Crescendo and Harley Kiss
Player with Harley Embrace
Player with Harley Embrace
Player with Harley Kiss
Player with Harley Kiss

TOTAL: 1849


So first to discuss, what am I trying to achieve with this list? A mixture of MSU flavor with a Leadership-based assault deathstar into it that however is able to function as an all comers list.

Each unit is supposed to have a role in the battlefield and I think so far I am achieving that objective. Anti-air is covered by the Hunter, Anti-tank is covered by the couple of suicide haywire scourge squads and the allmighty D delivered by the wraithfighters, while there's a lot of anti infantry everywhere, delivered by the drive-by kabalite units on raiders and the windrider squads, who also double as objective grabbers/contesters.

The deathstar is made of the Harlequin Troupe along the Autarch, the Shadowseer and the Succubus, all deployed as a unit by WWP. What's so deathstar about it? It is an assault unit with AP2 coming from high level melee specialists in the form of the Autarch, Succubus and Harleys, that do not eat overwatch thanks to the Banshee Mask, with Crusader as a bonus for high level mobility after deployment, with the succubus as challenge facing specialist.

But didn't I say something about the leadership thing? Well, the list has a total of 5 psychers, with the Farseer, the Shadowseer, the two Wraithfighters and the Warlock. 4 of them are supposed to grab telepathy and shoot a Psyshriek every round for a possible 4 shrieks on every psychic phase, with the chance of invisibility rolling around, or getting dominate to mindlock the most dangerous enemy unit forever. The leadership modifiers are the bubble provided by the succubus, another bubble provided by the shadowseer, and more for the flyers. With a WWP means that I deploy exactly in front of any unit giving it an auto -4 LD that might or not be increased by the optional presence of any of the Wraithfighters circling nearby. With at least 2 shrieks being cast it is a scary proposition for any deathstar looming on the battlefield. Shrieks do not need a roll to hit anymore thanks to the FAQ so I might grab the chance to abuse it.

So if I am so confident about my list, why am I asking for help? Well, there's a lot of options I am not sure about. I am going to detail which parts of the list I am not going to shift because I think it forms the "core" of the idea, which parts I am not convinced with, and which units I am not going to add simply because I do not have the models nor the will to buy them to do so.

Core units:

A Dark Eldar HQ with a WWP and the LD armor: This is essential for delivery, but I grabbed a succubus because I can kit her to be extremely useful for less points than an Archon would be, but I am open for ideas to switch her. I also thought about avoiding the WWP altogether and fitting a raider with good upgrades, (night shields, aethersails et al for some more points), for fast and easy delivery, but I am afraid of getting shot down somehow on the way.

Autarch with Mask: Gives no overwatch to the deathstar unit, needed for reserve improving purposes. What I am not sure about is if giving it the Power Axe to deal AP2 is worth it, or is it better to keep him naked with just the mask. Inside the unit it works well because he's dealing his damage as unwieldy, after the succubus and the harleys thinned most threats, but the problem might be I am wasting some points for overkill. I have been toying with the idea of getting him a fusion gun and having him leave the unit after DS to hunt for targets of opportunity but I am not sure about it.

Farseer: He is cheap, with tons of utility to throw around. What I am not sure about is if to have him running with the bikes, or going to join the deathstar.

The Wraithfighters: I'll be honest, I bought the models and I want to use them, plus they give both the Ld Penalty and the Psyshriek that make the army work around.

Harleys: I might toy around with the upgrades for the unit, but the Shadowseer and the Jester are vital for the rest of the army to work. I could switch this detachment for the Heroes' Path one, but I am not sure if I can use the solitaire to his max potential giving this list, plus I'd have to find the points for another small assault units to form the deathstar around, (Incubi, banshees or even scorpions could be a good replacement).

Not convinced:

All troops: Honestly, in this list, all troops are a tax. A needed tax to run the CAD and as only source of ObjSec. I thought Windriders are a good add-on given mobility and as an escort for the farseer/warlock while they fly around doing stuff. What I am not sure about is if its worth it to run them with upgrades or just running them naked. With them naked I might find the points to get a transport for the deathstar, which I am extremely interested about. Same with kabalites, not sure if I should run them naked as minimum units on naked venoms and save some points, (the death jester is supposed to run inside of those units, though), although if any of their raiders survive (and I plan to jink forever with them), they can start to shock things with reduced leadership given the chain snares upgrade.

Scourges: About these ones...I know I need a good source of ground based anti tank, and the eldar codices have so many of them that it is difficult to decide. At first I went for a couple of units of Fire Dragons on venoms, but the cost for each unit went up to 175 points. Fire Dragons are better than the scourges in every way for the role, but given that the scourges can DS by themselves without transports seemed like an improvement then. It's the cheaper option, and perhaps they might be more useful with heat lances. I'd like to hear some opinions about that. If anyone can propose a decent Anti tank unit that cost around 120 points it would be magnificent. Ravagers, for example, go for 125 points a pop customized for AT, but I'd be exchanging 4 AT shots for 3 each, or even FirePrisms could be useful. I'm really torn about what to use for this role, but I am willing to use up to 250 points for a solution that includes either DS or long range. I do own a Lynx, but the league doesn't allow FW models.

Crimson Hunter: I am also torn about this one. I'd like to have anti-air as to deal with aerial threats and the crimson hunter is the best plane hunter there is. I'm not sure only one is enough to deal with a massed flyer list, and I could use the 140p to buy another useful unit if I decide to ignore aerial combat altogether. Is it enough? Is it worth it?

Units I won't use

I don't have wraith units. No Wraith Guard, no Wraith Blades. No Wraithknights but a couple of wraithlords. No Grots. No FW models because the organizers won't allow it. That includes corsair lists, (I wanted to include those).


I know some of the players but I'm not aware of the entire meta. I know there's a Lion's Blade DA army, GK Paladin heavy army, Necron Decurion, Armoured IG, and at least three SM armies. Pretty sure someone is also bringing eldar as well.

So, open to listen to any input. Comments?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'm interested about which model should I designate as warlord, as to get the best traits for this army.

By the way, you can't use named characters. I forgot to say that. So no Lelith, or Eldrad.

Your math is off buddy.

652 for DE
912 for Eldar
60 for Jester
100 for Shadowseer
185 for Troupe ( this seems really high for 4 players and a master)

Yeah thanks!

The troupe is 125 p worth. My bad.

It's 652 DE plus 912 EC and 285 the Harleys.

What do you think of the list so far?

Just a suggestion, since your theme is rather similar to my own.

You could swap the Cast of Players for the Heroes Path. It still comes with everything you need in the form of the Death Jester and Mask Shadowseer but they also gain the benefit of infiltrate and Stealth and Shrouded, making them less of a suicide prospect then Webway portalling in. The Solitaire is just plain better than a troupe, he is faster and more survivable and more scary for the opponent. And we can also drop the Crimson Hunter, because since we no longer have an Autarch putting so many points into reserves seems perilous.

Of course this means you have no place for the Autarch, so drop him as well. Then we can make a few more points by turning the Dark Eldar detachment into an allied detachment, dropping a Gunboat and downgrading the Succubus into a single Lhamaean.

Ok, now you'll be thinking ''What the hell, he's gutted my list!'' But here you add the meat. Take the Dark Artisan formation from the Haemonculus covens list, 1 Talos, 1 Haemonculus and 1 Chronus join together to make a single unit. The big sell here is their special rule Freakish Spectacle, which is an aura 12'' -1 leadership mallius. Since the models are so large and they can webway in, this is a colossal range. Not to mention how ridiculously durable the unit is with 9 T7 3+/4++ wounds which if the Haemonculus is the warlord gets to re-roll 1's on FnP. This unit sets you back 350 points give or take a few wiggles and gives you; a huge -1 leadership debuff, a massively durable unit that deepstrikes perfectly in the opponents face, the safest warlord point you can get and a scary assault threat.

A massive area of -1 is better than 6'' of -2 and this unit is more reliable than the Harlequin paper deathstar. It also gives your army the Solitaire and allows the Death jester to position where he wants instead of wading into combat where he doesn't want to be. This is the kind of list I play except with more Harlequins and no Eldar and this unit is the perfect anvil and tank unit.

Not to burst your bubble, but I had a similar idea!

However, your list is very different to mine. I am trying to limit myself to 2 sources as it seems like that is most common in the UK.

I think you need to be careful about what starts on the table first turn as, if there isn't very much LOS blocking terrain on the table, your vulnerable venoms and 3-man bikes could take a lot of fire. A drop pod heavy army could do a lot of damage. Also, if deepstriking the deathstar against Tau or another army with interceptor, you might get blasted off the table. I suppose that's part and parcel of taking such an extreme list though; you can't be a perfect match against every list.

I like the addition of the wriathfighters in your list. The deathstar is potentially very powerful. Mask of secrets, armour of misery and no scatter deepstike will be deadly. Especially if it comes in on the same turn as both of your wraithfighters. You have a lot of leadership debuffs in your army if you can get them all into play it has a great potential to wreck the enemies army in one turn.

I find that it is hard to know how these lists will play as they are very unusual lists, but i think that is their strongest trait- people won't know how to play against them.

Thanks for you comments on my list.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:Just a suggestion, since your theme is rather similar to my own.

You could swap the Cast of Players for the Heroes Path. It still comes with everything you need in the form of the Death Jester and Mask Shadowseer but they also gain the benefit of infiltrate and Stealth and Shrouded, making them less of a suicide prospect then Webway portalling in. The Solitaire is just plain better than a troupe, he is faster and more survivable and more scary for the opponent. And we can also drop the Crimson Hunter, because since we no longer have an Autarch putting so many points into reserves seems perilous.

Of course this means you have no place for the Autarch, so drop him as well. Then we can make a few more points by turning the Dark Eldar detachment into an allied detachment, dropping a Gunboat and downgrading the Succubus into a single Lhamaean.

Ok, now you'll be thinking ''What the hell, he's gutted my list!'' But here you add the meat. Take the Dark Artisan formation from the Haemonculus covens list, 1 Talos, 1 Haemonculus and 1 Chronus join together to make a single unit. The big sell here is their special rule Freakish Spectacle, which is an aura 12'' -1 leadership mallius. Since the models are so large and they can webway in, this is a colossal range. Not to mention how ridiculously durable the unit is with 9 T7 3+/4++ wounds which if the Haemonculus is the warlord gets to re-roll 1's on FnP. This unit sets you back 350 points give or take a few wiggles and gives you; a huge -1 leadership debuff, a massively durable unit that deepstrikes perfectly in the opponents face, the safest warlord point you can get and a scary assault threat.

A massive area of -1 is better than 6'' of -2 and this unit is more reliable than the Harlequin paper deathstar. It also gives your army the Solitaire and allows the Death jester to position where he wants instead of wading into combat where he doesn't want to be. This is the kind of list I play except with more Harlequins and no Eldar and this unit is the perfect anvil and tank unit.

You raise very interesting points. I'm pretty convinced that the Heroes' Path, even costing some points more, is better than the unit I'm currently fielding. I'm going to take your word on that because I do own the models and fits perfectly.

On the other hand, I own no Cronos nor Talos, but maybe I'll be able to find some borrowed ones. If I do, I'll try that formation, but I can't be sure of it.

jonny123 wrote:Not to burst your bubble, but I had a similar idea!

However, your list is very different to mine. I am trying to limit myself to 2 sources as it seems like that is most common in the UK.

I think you need to be careful about what starts on the table first turn as, if there isn't very much LOS blocking terrain on the table, your vulnerable venoms and 3-man bikes could take a lot of fire. A drop pod heavy army could do a lot of damage. Also, if deepstriking the deathstar against Tau or another army with interceptor, you might get blasted off the table. I suppose that's part and parcel of taking such an extreme list though; you can't be a perfect match against every list.

I like the addition of the wriathfighters in your list. The deathstar is potentially very powerful. Mask of secrets, armour of misery and no scatter deepstike will be deadly. Especially if it comes in on the same turn as both of your wraithfighters. You have a lot of leadership debuffs in your army if you can get them all into play it has a great potential to wreck the enemies army in one turn.

I find that it is hard to know how these lists will play as they are very unusual lists, but i think that is their strongest trait- people won't know how to play against them.

Thanks for you comments on my list.

Thanks for your comment. It seems it is the scary part, but I'm planning to deploy all troops (windrider units and kabalites) and jinx ike crazy and hope to not get ignore cover fire on my face and get wiped. I'll have to be careful about that.

If the draft FAQ holds, you can't snap shot psychic shriek so it doesn't work when the enemy death star is invisible. Probably works fine in ITC format tho.

 axisofentropy wrote:
If the draft FAQ holds, you can't snap shot psychic shriek so it doesn't work when the enemy death star is invisible. Probably works fine in ITC format tho.

I think you may of read it wrong, you can shoot it at invis units but not flying monstrous creatures since they cannot be hit by weapons that don't need a to hit roll.

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
If the draft FAQ holds, you can't snap shot psychic shriek so it doesn't work when the enemy death star is invisible. Probably works fine in ITC format tho.

I think you may of read it wrong, you can shoot it at invis units but not flying monstrous creatures since they cannot be hit by weapons that don't need a to hit roll.

Only Snap Shots may be fired at Swooping FMC's.

Page 33 says weapons that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be "fired" as Snap Shots.

RAW Invisibility allows only Snap Shots.

Depending on how the final FAQ is written for Grenades, Swooping Hawks might be able to do your AA and AT in one, saving you points for other units. Heck, an Aspect Host saves you the FOC slots too.

I don't think you need 2 hemlock wraithfighters. 1 should he enough

So I have decided to drop this list for the league. After some hard thinking I decided I do not own the models to carry this out properly, and I'd end with a not satisfying list.

I decided to switch for this one