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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

This thread is for discussing news items specifically relevant to US politics, especially the 2016 Presidential Election. Politics is a wide-ranging subject. But it does not cover anything and everything. If you have a question about whether a topic is best discussed here or in its own thread, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

Keep in mind that Rule Number Two is Stay On Topic - and this applies even in the Off Topic Sub-Forum.

And please use the modalert system for reporting off-topic posts rather than responding to them and therefore providing the derailment assist. Thanks in advance!

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I saw this link via a friend's facebook page.... Clearly, this is a slanted website, though it does seem to be feeling the Bern


http://trofire.com/2016/05/09/wall-street-makes-pick-executives-overwhelmingly-back-clinton/


For the TL;DR crowd: basically, Clinton has received some 20+ million bucks from "Wall Street" and has campaign promises to end such huge sums of money in political donations, but why should we believe her?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/09 23:27:13


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

We shouldn't. No candidate short of Bernie is going to run on real campaign finance reform, and no Congress is going to support such an initiative unless campaign finance reform becomes the difference between being elected and not being elected, which isn't happening any time soon.

Granted;

As others have said, what does the financial district think giving such a massive amount of money to Clinton will buy them? If she claims that she won’t be swayed by generous donations, why would they bother?


Is a completely false assumption. Campaign finance can be directly correlated to votes. Being able to fund a campaign, put out ads, make public appearances, buy talented organizers, etc. is a big part of winning. Giving money to a candidate is not just about getting "favors" but about getting the person you want elected elected. If corporations think Trump is too toxic, and Bernie is too anti-them, then the only real recourse they have is to throw everything at Clinton and hope the money translates into a win. Maybe she won't give them favors, but if the alternatives are worse...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/09 23:36:04


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 LordofHats wrote:

Is a completely false assumption. Campaign finance can be directly correlated to votes. Being able to fund a campaign, put out ads, make public appearances, buy talented organizers, etc. is a big part of winning. Giving money to a candidate is not just about getting "favors" but about getting the person you want elected elected. If corporations think Trump is too toxic, and Bernie is too anti-them, then the only real recourse they have is to throw everything at Clinton and hope the money translates into a win. Maybe she won't give them favors, but if the alternatives are worse...



From an academic sense, I agree with you... But from what clickbait articles that are surfacing now (such as Verizon "donating" 1.2 billion over the course of several years, and in that same time span, getting tax breaks worth 10s of billions) show that there does seem to be a suspicious level of tit-for-tat giving.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

If it were so simple, then no one would need a Lobby to advocate for them in government, yet everyone has one and actively lobbies. It looks bad yes, and people are right to notice I think. It is however important to remember that it's not that simple.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 LordofHats wrote:
If it were so simple, then no one would need a Lobby to advocate for them in government, yet everyone has one and actively lobbies. It looks bad yes, and people are right to notice I think. It is however important to remember that it's not that simple.


From the standpoint of something like Sprint vs. Verizon, it is that simple. But you are right that it isn't simple. I think part of the problem, and one that Sanders was trying to address was that in having this huge, professional lobbying apparatus in the country, those of us nowhere near the top don't really have a voice for our actual concerns. I mean, sure, petition.whitehouse.gov or whatever the website is, is nice and all... but how many people actually use it? IIRC, the "Death Star" petition is about the only one that I've ever heard of coming from that website, that the president has publicly commented on. Naturally, I'm not suggesting that the POTUS needs to publicly comment on every single petition that meets his viewing criteria, but if it's on an issue that would require actual debates and writing of new laws, it might be nice for the people to hear him/her say, "I saw this petition asking for the monday after the Superbowl to be named a national holiday... I gotcha, and we're gonna work on it, figure something out"
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






So, something im seeing among my Facebook Feed.
People Writing Bernie Sanders in. Now Im a realist and I know he will now not be president.
But I think that is how Trump might win, because the base for democrats is splitting.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, something im seeing among my Facebook Feed.
People Writing Bernie Sanders in. Now Im a realist and I know he will now not be president.
But I think that is how Trump might win, because the base for democrats is splitting.


The base for both parties is. I'd expect the Libertarian party to see it's biggest turn out ever this year.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, something im seeing among my Facebook Feed.
People Writing Bernie Sanders in. Now Im a realist and I know he will now not be president.
But I think that is how Trump might win, because the base for democrats is splitting.


The D base is a lot less split than the R party right now. Clinton will not get a lot of the younger Sanders crowd, but frankly, she was not going to get those votes anyway because that demographic typically does not turn out on election day. Obama got a much better than average turn out on 2008, but it was already going back down in 2012. Sanders may have been able to get another uptick in their participation, but Clinton never was.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 djones520 wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, something im seeing among my Facebook Feed.
People Writing Bernie Sanders in. Now Im a realist and I know he will now not be president.
But I think that is how Trump might win, because the base for democrats is splitting.


The base for both parties is. I'd expect the Libertarian party to see it's biggest turn out ever this year.


I agree with this... If these assessments are accurate (that some Left folks are planning on voting Sanders, regardless, and some Right folks are gonna vote Libertarian or write-in Cruz or whatever) then I think that the issue will come down to who turns out in greater numbers.

If Libertarians turn out in greater numbers, then HRC will likely be president, if Sanders' supporters turn out in greater numbers, it may be a toss-up, but the probability of a Trump presidency is greatly increased.

Or we could see an electoral college map that looks akin to the 1860 map, when Lincoln got elected, which would be very interesting to me.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
If it were so simple, then no one would need a Lobby to advocate for them in government, yet everyone has one and actively lobbies. It looks bad yes, and people are right to notice I think. It is however important to remember that it's not that simple.


From the standpoint of something like Sprint vs. Verizon, it is that simple. But you are right that it isn't simple. I think part of the problem, and one that Sanders was trying to address was that in having this huge, professional lobbying apparatus in the country, those of us nowhere near the top don't really have a voice for our actual concerns. I mean, sure, petition.whitehouse.gov or whatever the website is, is nice and all... but how many people actually use it? IIRC, the "Death Star" petition is about the only one that I've ever heard of coming from that website, that the president has publicly commented on. Naturally, I'm not suggesting that the POTUS needs to publicly comment on every single petition that meets his viewing criteria, but if it's on an issue that would require actual debates and writing of new laws, it might be nice for the people to hear him/her say, "I saw this petition asking for the monday after the Superbowl to be named a national holiday... I gotcha, and we're gonna work on it, figure something out"

How do you stop the lobbiest revolving door?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 djones520 wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, something im seeing among my Facebook Feed.
People Writing Bernie Sanders in. Now Im a realist and I know he will now not be president.
But I think that is how Trump might win, because the base for democrats is splitting.


The base for both parties is. I'd expect the Libertarian party to see it's biggest turn out ever this year.

If the Libertarian party gets 5% of the vote, then I believe they'd qualify for federal funding in 2020, which could be a meaningful start.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 01:17:45


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279213-ryan-ill-step-down-as-convention-chairman-if-trump-asks

Looks like Ryan can't wait to get away from the GOP Presidential Election this year. He probably needs all the energy to fight the mighty power of Palin!
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 whembly wrote:

How do you stop the lobbiest revolving door?


Do you mean like what was showcased in the documentary "Merchants of Doubt" ?? Or do you mean something else entirely?
   
Made in us
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USA

I don't know what Merchants of Doubt is, but the Lobbyist Revolving door refers to the "Revolving Door". This is another case of "it's not really that simple" in that this is usually treated as a tit for tat kind of relationship, which isn't really the case. However it is a relationship that just doesn't look good, and it's one that people should pay a lot of attention to (far more than currently is). A lot of the shadier things in politics end up looking even worse because of this phenomena, and it's basically conspiracy theory fodder.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 01:26:47


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 whembly wrote:

How do you stop the lobbiest revolving door?


Do you mean like what was showcased in the documentary "Merchants of Doubt" ?? Or do you mean something else entirely?

Nein...

Although the influence powerhouses that line Washington's K Street are just a few miles from the U.S. Capitol building, the most direct path between the two doesn't necessarily involve public transportation. Instead, it's through a door—a revolving door that shuffles former federal employees into jobs as lobbyists, consultants and strategists just as the door pulls former hired guns into government careers.

When there's opportunities for graft... that's a whole lotta jack.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Ahh gotcha... So to explain a bit... Merchants of Doubt was a documentary about a fairly significant number of lobbyists in key positions (think, Nick Nailor from "Thank You For Smoking" and you get the idea here) and how they literally jumped ship from Tobacco to oil, furniture, cell phones, climate change, etc. And that they are more responsible for the rhetoric of "doubt" that is sent through national and local media outlets. In this case, it isn't a left/right issue, it's an industry/government issue.


As to the revolving door itself... It may not entirely work, but perhaps something as simple as the ethical hiring practices that military members are supposed to adhere to. I'm referring to the policy here where, if in uniform, you oversaw the contract on the F-22 and had intimate knowledge of the program from the military perspective, you couldn't take off the uniform and enter the F-22 project from the civilian side (there's grey area here apparently, in that you can take employment in Lockheed or whoever, you're just supposed to be placed under different projects/areas of the company where you cannot affect outcomes on the project you worked on in the military)

It's not 100% tight, but in laymen's terms, it's what I came up with just now.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

I was listening to some political commentators on the radio this morning. They had some interesting opinions and pointed out some interesting facts.

They thought that Hillary would suck up a bit more of the Independent voters. However (and this is interesting) they thought that Trump has the potential to snag a sizable amount of the Bernie Sanders people.

While this sounds slightly ridiculous at first glance, if you look at everyone's stances on certain key issues you will find that Trump is actually more in line with Sanders than Clinton is. The men seem like polar opposites they do share some interesting parallels.

This could make the election exciting, and actually gives me hope that people are paying attention to the issues for once instead of looking for the "R" or "D" next to a name.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 cuda1179 wrote:


While this sounds slightly ridiculous at first glance, if you look at everyone's stances on certain key issues you will find that Trump is actually more in line with Sanders than Clinton is. The men seem like polar opposites they do share some interesting parallels.


I think that does sound ridiculous.... Especially because, I think if you care to look through the old politics thread, you will see that Trump's stances seem to need the caveat of "today." As in, today he's against abortion.... tomorrow he may forget that he said he was against abortion, but now is for it. Obviously, my example is a bit of hyperbole, because I can't recall him saying much on abortion itself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 04:00:25


 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




Not terribly surprising, but Trump wins overwhelmingly among active duty military in a head-to-head with Clinton.

Way too much disengagement, though. This year really sucks.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Seaward wrote:
Not terribly surprising, but Trump wins overwhelmingly among active duty military in a head-to-head with Clinton.

Way too much disengagement, though. This year really sucks.



Somewhat unsurprisingly, the numbers are pretty close to the officer/enlisted ratio listed in their total respondents.
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Somewhat unsurprisingly, the numbers are pretty close to the officer/enlisted ratio listed in their total respondents.


That is a little surprising to me, actually. That officers are more likely to back Clinton seems like a complete reversal from the politics I remember from my not-so-long-in-the-past day.

I choose to blame Army officers.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Seaward wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Somewhat unsurprisingly, the numbers are pretty close to the officer/enlisted ratio listed in their total respondents.


That is a little surprising to me, actually. That officers are more likely to back Clinton seems like a complete reversal from the politics I remember from my not-so-long-in-the-past day.

I choose to blame Army officers.



Lol, I'm saying that less as a statement on military ideology, and more on the "proven" metrics that people with a college education tend to lean more left of center than people with limited education. So, from the standpoint that all military officers must have a college degree, it makes sense.

Also, being that this survey was based on subscribers, and I mentioned this to the wife, the enlisted people who typically subscribed to Army Times or Military Times in general.... tend to be on the higher levels of the Enlisted scale.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

I would suspect officers might fall into the category of "doesn't like Clinton, dislikes Trump more." Especially in the Army. That's a demographic that generally likes what would now be called "Establishment Republicanism."

   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Lol, I'm saying that less as a statement on military ideology, and more on the "proven" metrics that people with a college education tend to lean more left of center than people with limited education. So, from the standpoint that all military officers must have a college degree, it makes sense.

Also, being that this survey was based on subscribers, and I mentioned this to the wife, the enlisted people who typically subscribed to Army Times or Military Times in general.... tend to be on the higher levels of the Enlisted scale.


That's definitely the trend for the general population, but if memory serves, it's (usually) reversed among military officers in that they tend to lean more heavily conservative than less-likely-to-have-degrees enlisted. I dunno if it's ever been polled at more than an informal level by outlets like Military Times, though, so it could just be bad data that became conventional wisdom.

Purely anecdotal experience, but naval aviation was definitely Republican-heavy, if only because Republicans = more flight time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LordofHats wrote:
I would suspect officers might fall into the category of "doesn't like Clinton, dislikes Trump more." Especially in the Army. That's a demographic that generally likes what would now be called "Establishment Republicanism."


There's probably something to that. I don't like Trump, at all, but I will vote for him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 04:34:10


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Heh... one of my favorite sites:
14 People Explain Why They Want Donald Trump To Become President
Spoiler:
1. I’m seriously thinking about voting for trump, and here is why. I firmly believe that our system of government is deeply flawed, if not completely broken. Yet we still keep voting for the same type of people. If trump wins, there’s a good chance the whole thing will collapse from his absurdity. Then maybe we could start over and build something better that works. A vote for trump is a vote for full system breakdown, which I believe is exactly what we need.

So... he/she's in the Burn It Down™ crowd.

2. So I’ve spent the last 30 years living outside D.C. And at least since the Bush Sr. administration I’ve paid pretty close attention to politics, and have become pretty disillusioned with both parties. Basically as I see it every candidate we get from either side has the same flaws, flaws that Trump, despite being a very flawed individual in his own right, doesn’t share.
First, every politician is a corporate whore. Campaign finance law basically exists to be super muddled, keep out 3rd parties, and disguise where any politicians money is coming from. We legitimately don’t know who our leaders owe favors to, it’s usually a lot of people, and it’s definitely influencing policy. With Trump we know exactly where his money came from, it’s going to be a lot harder for random lobbyist/backer to manipulate Trump. We’ve even seen this reflected in some policy ideas he’s talked about like the changes to the tax code to close loopholes that he knows as well as anyone because he’s used them himself for decades.
Second, if you think about the traits good leaders have had, from a historical figure you admire to a great coach or the boss you really liked, typically those people are straightforward and honest with people, speak their mind and stand up for what they believe in, are open minded but firm in their convictions, and tend to shine when making difficult decisions. I think the traits necessary to be a politician are the opposite of all that. To be a successful politician you have to hide your true thoughts and motives when they’re at all controversial and instead give people what they want, you have to avoid tough decisions like the plague and stand for what no one is opposed to. Just look at political debates, no one answers any questions, they all talk and talk and say nothing. Trump seems to legitimately say what he thinks. He seems honest, even when what he thinks is pretty weird. He legitimately doesn’t care if people aren’t going to like what he has to say. He answers those questions in those debates, it’s pretty refreshing.
I’d actually go so far as to argue that Trump is open minded. He used to be a Democrat, now he’s a Republican, he’s still very liberal on a large number of issues. He was on a Comedy Central roast and was a good sport about it. He’s clearly capable of laughing at himself, which implies he’s aware he may be wrong at times.
I don’t think he’s racist at all, though he’s definitely more worried about terrorism than I feel is warranted. He’s definitely an donkey-cave, but I’m not interested in having him as a friend. George W. seemed like a genuinely nice guy and we invaded two countries, Obama seems like a genuinely nice guy and NSA spying and drone strikes are at an all time high. Maybe being a nice guy isn’t that important to running a country.
Trump has been the victim of gotcha journalism and misquotation or out of context quotation pretty heavily recently, and I think people don’t know what he really stands for. He believes some weird gak, but it’s not all as crazy as it’s made out. For instance his statements that made the front page recently on the internet were wildly misrepresented. He was asked specifically about ISIS’ ability to recruit online and was talking about trying to take steps to limit that. To me it was obvious from what he said that he doesn’t know much about the Internet, but to me what he said about “get with Bill Gates” that was so heavily mocked here was pretty clear in context, that he was saying he wants to meet with experts in the field and see what our options are. As much as it’s been ripped I thought he was making a point mentioning Gates. Trump knows Bill Gates politically, and how liberal he is, and I think was implying it’s a non-partisan issue and showing the angle they’d take, which was what the next line mocking people crying about freedom of speech was about. Trump knows Bill Gates is the last guy on earth who would want to filter the Internet and restrict freedom, that’s the point in dropping his name. I’m far more concerned with the similar statements, from a more informed position, that Hillary and Obama have already made concerning freedoms and spying on the Internet.

This guy/gal is full of Zen...

3. As a legal immigrant I despise illegal immigrants. At worst they should be put at the back of the “queue”. Hillary’s offer to legalize them all is pandering. As a person who grew up in the western world, I respect the rule of law. Philosophically if you have a problem with people cutting in line in front of you at a coffee shop or while merging into traffic or at an amusement park, then you and I are in complete agreement on this topic. Also immigration is a privilege not a right. A huge part of the world wants to get into the US . And the US has historically welcomed these people with open arms. But to demand that you be let in like it is a fundamental right is not fair to the people who live here those who were born here and those who came here legally. The people who are here paid their dues, I don’t think it is unfair to ask the others do too.

One of the smartest things that Trump tapped into is *this* anger.

4. I think the support he has is a symbol of how fed up Americans are with how unbalanced and dishonest the system has gotten. We want politicians who will actually represent the people, not corporate entities. Even if his honesty is ignorant it’s still a change in the direction of having leaders that aren’t completely cynical.

Is this wrong? I mean... Trump's not a politician, but it ain't like he isn't the elite ya know?

5. I fullheartedly support Donald Trump and find him to be the most qualified candidate for the job.
Is he an donkey-cave? Yes. Is he not politically correct? Yes. Everything he says is completely controversial and on the surface it seems like he is totally outrageous.
However, he is the savior in such a corrupt and dishonest system.
Here is a list of things I like about him. Many of them significant and others small.
Our leadership is terrible. We have individuals across the world torturing innocent people and planning to kill thousands of American’s as we speak and nothing is being done about it. He will literally ruin ISIS. He doesn’t want to close Guantanamo because he isn’t an idiot. Constitutional rights don’t apply to terrorists.
He cannot be bought by any private lobbyist group.
He speaks his mind (i.e. no teleprompter and he does not have speeches written for him)
He never EVER apologizes. Idk I personally just kind of like that.
Everyone freaks out because they think he’s a racist. “Oh what he wants to deport 11 million people! What a racist!” “Oh he wants to stop illegal immigration to reduce crime. Racist!” “He wants to temporarily stop people of the islamic faith from coming into America for national security reasons so Congress can figure out issues regarding ISIS. Racist” Please. He’s not actually dumb enough to think he could deport 11 million illegal immigrants, given, they are legally not allowed to be in this country. He uses this classic method of negotiating called ‘anchoring’ as he talks about in his book the Art of the Deal. You want to sell a car for $25000? Ask for $28000 then negotiate down. By asking so much from Congress as to not allow Muslims in and deport 11 million people he will get a better reaction from democrats than by simply asking for a little better regulation of some sort for illegal immigrants and/or Muslims. No one has the right to come into America. We should build a massive wall and allow people to come in legally.
Regarding his statements about Muslims not being allowed to come into America. Yes obviously there is no way of knowing who is Muslim and who isn’t. So the next step is prevent certain regions from coming into the U.S. And Congress LITERALLY JUST DID THAT TUESDAY. If you are from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon I think..? and one or two other countries in the middle east or have been there in the past 5 years you cannot come into the United States without adhering to our “strict” Visa policy (which is a joke, which is why Trump wants to stop it completely). The article is on CNN. The house passed it 407-19. And American intelligence expects that ISIS has the ability to make fake passports to get where they want. So that is really good!/s Also Rand Paul wants to temporarily halt immigration from those countries (a.k.a. Muslims) to get national security concerns worked out as well as Trump. But the media doesn’t talk about that cuz feth Trump amirite? fukin racist lol.
I don’t think people comprehend the fact that 21% of all Muslims in Syria support ISIS? Do people not understand that threat? If I remember correctly from a few recent polls, an average of like 8% of all Muslims in middle eastern countries are chill with ISIS and what they are doing. So I mean while we have millions of people rooting for innocent American’s deaths and tens of thousands of them plotting to kill innocent people across the world we are sitting here freaking out because Trump wants to TEMPORARILY halt Muslim (a.k.a. certain countries) entry into the U.S. Okay. Dude, feth logic!
Almost every single source of media that bashes him has some sort of clickbait headline that Sander’s supporters glance at and don’t even look into the situation. At first I hated Trump for what he was saying about Hispanics and for other BS media reasons. Then I actually listened to him talk and actually saw what he was like. Is he perfect? No. No candidate is though. And no matter what side you are on you absolutely 100% cannot deny that Trump is more genuine and less hitler like to at least to some degree than the media portrays him. If you don’t agree with that, you obviously have only seen headlines of CNN and Huffington Post articles.
Amazing Businessman. I was appalled in the first GOP debate where they questioned his business ability because he purposefully let his companies go bankrupt so he would save money. IN fething 2009. Anyone that says he isn’t a good businessman is ignorant. He has compounded his wealth at 44% since he got his first $1 million from his dad. Way better than some of the best hedge fund managers in the world.
We literally keep losing to everyone (China and other Asian Countries) for Jobs, Production, Trade, and GDP. I am 100% confident that he will make America an economic powerhouse again.
He wants to tax any couple making less than $50,000 per year 0%. Any individual making < $25k per year also 0%.
Simplifying tax code. He wants to make the IRS so much smaller and more simple. It is absurd with what we are dealing with now.
Other candidates suck. I like Bernie’s personality but he is a socialist that thinks the rich are the devil and thinks everyone deserves to have an iPhone, 4 kids, and a 3 story house. And a pussy. Hillary is corrupt as feth. Jeb”!” is a pussy. Ben Carson does not have the capacity as a human being to run a nation of 300 million+ people. Ted Cruz I like just not as much as Trump. Everyone else is irrelevant.
Things I dislike about trump: His environmental stance, Maybe a bit much on being an donkey-cave to people.

lolwut?

6. Frankly, he is possibly the most capable candidate I have seen.
Firstly, he is a strong figure. I’m only 26, but in my entire time voting, and learning about politicians, they have always come off as weak and pathetic. Their game is to make you like them. People rarely came to the table saying what they wanted to do, but they just said sound bites like “We need to save the middle class! Tax breaks for the middle class! Better schools!” When pressured on anything slightly controversial they could crumble and apologize. Trump stands by what he says against great opposition, and Tends to be correct, forcing the media to apologize. This just makes every allegation afterwards seem less credible.
He is very savvy with economics, listen to him speak. https://youtu.be/r-HPlMHnORo?t=86 . He has a good understanding of the economy, the problems that exist within it, and how to utilize the upper class to re-invest in America or face higher taxes. The tax structure he offers up in 91′ seems relevant even today to help alleviate some of the complaints we have about 1%’ers and wall street.
He is loud, and crass, and isn’t intimidated by people telling him to speak a certain way. As a kid raised on the internet, I always took free speech for granted. I could say anything, and everything I wanted on the internet with no fear of repercussions. When I came to the internet I saw a completely open arena where you could talk about anything, have any opinion, and voice yours without fear. Worst case sceneario? you make a new screen name instead of DarkSephirothx1950. As I got older, and the internet got more mainstream, I got more excited that people would join the free thinking, free talking movement, but sadly it slid in the opposite direction. Social media is tied to everything, and if you say the wrong thing it can be met with firm opposition and potentially losing your job. Trump signifies that culture for me at least. We have the first amendment, but it doesn’t mean gak if we don’t have a culture of free speech, and we don’t.
He has the most potential to actually beat Hillary. If he runs as independant it will probably suicide the republican party, they will be split, and hillary gets the white house.
I can’t possibly understand peoples aversion to deporting illegal immigrants besides their feelings. illegal immigrants hurt the lower class the worst, and they are in a bad enough spot as it is. If you are going to break the law, you should be prepared to face the consequences of your actions. If I shot up heroin, I wouldn’t expect any sympathy for my choice to break an established law. These workers come in and take the “undesirable jobs” for low wages. Guess what? When you have an undesirable job, it must be met with compensation equal to what people are willing to do it for. If they want to offer 5$ an hour to pick potatos, and nobody offers to do it, their option is to offer more pay for that work, or not harvest the potatos. Illegal imigration removes low education individuals ability to negotiate their wages. Food prices will increase, but everybody thinks its ridiculous that such hard jobs pay so low anyway.

Sounds like this voter wants an Authoritarian Daddy...

7. I do like the things Trump says about campaign finance, straight calling people like Bush out for being run by his donors. And I think hillary is a robot.

Hillary's a Terminator donchanknow?

8. He isn’t a pandering politician. He is relatively centrist and populist. He has a long track record without any damaging scandals. He seems more than the others to be genuinely interested in being a good leader for the country, rather than only for his base (as he doesn’t really have a base to pander to.)
In short, the rest of the field looks slimy and self-serving. Trump has proven successful enough at serving himself that he comes off as credibly genuine and not like he’s running to make more money or get more recognition or power. He is less easily corruptible than a politician looking to trade favors and pander for votes.
And the media reaction to him only serves to make the media look like corrupt establishment boot lickers seeking to control the narrative and the political process entirely.
I guess it takes power to speak truth to power, sometimes.

Don't know he'd by "less" corruptible... o.O

9. I want to preface this by saying I’m not decided on who I will vote for. I’ve supported candidates from both parties in the past, and I don’t agree with Trump 100%, but when it comes to thousands of Muslims coming over here, I have to say that as a gay man that worries me.
Let’s not mince words. Muslims are not at all in favor of gay rights (Page 14 for the lazy). Sure some are I guess, but they’re a small minority and they tend to be people who grew up in 1st world nations.
Now you may be thinking “why not just vote for Hilary or Bernie? They’re way more pro-gay than Trump.” True, but theres a little problem. Hilary only cared about gay rights when it became politically inconvenient for her not to and I have a whole host of problems with Bernie. Namely:
-Tax policies
-Gun Rights
-Abortion
-Immigration
-Foreign Policy (Climate change caused ISIS apparently. Not our foreign intervention, but climate change.)
-Affirmative Action
-The fact that he won’t be able to pass a single bill because neither party really supports him. Do we need more Gridlock?
-He’ll most likely die in office
Then there’s also the fact that even as a gay dude I don’t give a feth about gay marriage. Sure I think it should be legal for those who want to get married, but in my personal (selfish) view it doesn’t affect me one way or another. I will never get married in my life, so you can make it as illegal as you want, won’t affect my life at all. But you know what will affect me? Countless people coming into the country thinking that my sexuality is immoral, should be outlawed, or even punishable by death.
I find it so funny how liberals will on one hand sing the praises of the LGBT community but then turn around and welcome the most homophobic and bigoted people on the planet. Seriously. Go look at that chart again. 71% of millenial aged Muslims think that homosexuality should be outlawed. If Liberals heard that 71% of American white men thought that I guarantee that they’d parrot it from the highest mountain. We would never hear the end of it. Yet when Muslims think the same thing we get the NOT ALL MUSLIMS speech. Ok, fine. I will concede that not allMuslims; just a sizable majority of them. And apparently I’m supposed to feel comforted by that, as if to say “Suresome Muslims may want to kill you for the way you were born, but since it’s not 100% shut up or we’ll compare you to Hitler.” (Apparently Hitler was a 21 year old blonde-haired, bearded gay dude-TIL).
I ask you, dear Redditor (who is no doubt typing furiously about how wrong I am and how I’m a fascist) please consider for a moment how you would feel if you were in my shoes. How would you feel if your president was allowing God knows how many people into your country who want you dead? I figure you’d probably be pretty scared, and any rebuttle of “shut up or you’re Hitler” wouldn’t soothe your fears.
I concede that Trump is a stupid blowhard who says whatever crosses his mind, but how many of you have spent years complaining that politicians are too scripted, that they don’t say what they believe, or they’re too beholden to moneyed interests? Well Trump is the answer to what a politician would look like without all of those things; crude and unrefined, but honest. He says what he really thinks, even if it isn’t good politics. He isn’t right about a lot of things but he does appeal to me simply because he isn’t a politician.

...this is the most reasoned rationale so far.

10. I like the fact that he isn’t a politician nor plays the “political game” like it should.
I agree that immigration is a VERY serious problem. We just can’t afford supporting so many illegal immigrants. My father came here legally and he had to go through the long process of the system to become a US citizen, why cant others?

Indeed... why can't others follow the rules as it exist today?

11. I agree on being more careful with immigration, less gun control (or I think in his view leaving it up to states.), and focusing on getting our debts paid off.
I also feel like he is less of a liability, should he actually be a bad president. It would be like electing a guy who HAS to be on his best behavior, or get impeached.

Oh, I don't know about that... which presumes he'd overcome HRC in the first place.


12. He’s an donkey-cave, but at least he’s honest, and isn’t really into bullshitting people. Besides, I don’t want a third Bush or a second Clinton in office anyway. The Presidency is not a hereditary monarchy.

Anecdotally, this is the most common rationale that I've encountered in support of Trump. Thing is, my BS meter dang new breaks everytime I listen to Trump.

13. Because over time our entire political system has become a complete joke. It’s completely based on money. And these are just the popular mantras, but after 30 something years on this planet, I’ve decided they’re true, but for specific reasons.
No one involved in the White House or on the Hill has an actual “job” like they used to when the country was founded. Being a Senator or a Rep used to be be something else you did, not the only thing you did. You didn’t get paid a livable salary to come to DC, and you didn’t spend all year (minus vacations) in the city, you were at home, in your home state, doing your job. You ran a store, you were a farmer, a doctor, a butcher or some gak. Entire lifetimes are spent in office…why? How is that reality? Every single one of them is a millionaire…how does that represent anyone? How can they possibly relate to a huge swath of the country? The districts at a state/local level are absolute dogshit, carved up literally block by block in some arbitrary fashion that negates the effectiveness of being represented in the first place. And the term “middle class” is completely meaningless. There is no definitive line that says ‘above this, you are middle class, but above this, you are rich’. It’s an impossible to define completely meaningless term that does nothing but make everyone feel like a unique and special snowflake…the “average american citizen” snowflake. 40% of our income, out of the gate, goes directly to the Government. In addition to all the consumption taxes we pay (sales tax, property tax, gas tax, estate tax, capital gains tax, and on, and on, and on), and yet these idiots aren’t even marginally close to HALF of a balanced budget.
They trundle out on tv, radio, in the paper, and talk about taxes, about nonsensical political moving and shaking, about topics that seem to “matter” but realistically make zero difference. Major headlines are made for bills about personal rights, privacy, and a slew of other things, and then completely negated by riders on other bills under the radar, piece by piece, until the people that paid for the influence get what they originally wanted anyways. The entire voting populace, which is what, a third of the eligible voters that are alive and mentally coherent at any given November, are given the illusion of having a say, when it doesn’t matter. They call, they put Facebook posts up, they put signs and banners on, send stupid emails, write letters…’we’re making a difference!’. No, you’re not. You’re killing time, like knitting, but more social, and you don’t have something to show for it later.
It’s a COMPLETE joke. An absolute circus. Our country exists still solely by accident, and by the forward motion created in WWII by becoming one of the largest economies and military powers in the world. And with each generation, we become more entitled, less creative, less hard working, and more egocentric than the generation before. It’s a fething gak show, and these asshats get on TV and talk about jobs, the economy, and the ‘good ol American dream’.
So I love Trump. I fething love him. I wish he was actually going to run all the way to the White House instead of just fart around until the primaries like he usually does. I wish he’d take shots and get on TV and give press conferences drunk off his ass. I wish he’d tell reporters to go feth themselves. I wish he’d treat International diplomacy like it was an episode of what’s his show where he got to say “You’re Fired”. I LOVE that he pisses off all the politicians on both sides, because he’s different than the good old boys (and gals) that come up year after year after year. How can he possibly be worse than what politician after politician after politician does in office? What’s he going to do, piss off an ally by spying on them? Inflame enemies by attacking their countries with remote controlled planes? Spend more money than we have? Pass laws for things with good intentions, like healthcare for people who don’t have it, without considering some of the gigantic gaping holes in getting it out there…like a working website to sign up for it in the first place? Sit on his ass and do nothing while OPM has the biggest leak of clandestine and TS information in the history of mankind? Bail out gigantic banks instead of busting them up after they fethed around and lost billions of dollars and screwed over half of the globe? Have the most non-secretive affair ever? Then lie about it and spend a million man hours talking about who he did or did not feth instead of governing? Cause gas lines and shortages, fail to rescue hostages from a shithole by piss poor planning? Invade a country and blow it to gak without figuring out how to get back out of said country, after we just did the same thing 40 years prior?
Seriously…how the feth could Trump be WORSE than the parade of human turds in suits that march into the Capitol and White House every day, every year? He can’t. He can’t possibly. But the sheer fact that he’s universally hated by every one of those lying out of touch idiots makes me want to vote for him as King let alone President. Go Trump.

Tell us how your really feel mang. And lol at "human turds in suits".


14. He’s not a bought man ( or women ), he does the buying, not the other way round
he’s honest about his opinions, and agree or disagree with them, at least you actually know what he thinks
he’s a survivor , he’s had up’s and downs, and he doesnt give up, he keeps on going, and he comes out on top in the end again and again
when charged with being ignorant of things a 8th grader should know, henry ford famously said that he could push a button, and have someone come and answer any question posed to him. He didnt need to know it himself, because he found good advisors, and listened to them
the Don may not be an expert in foreign affairs, but he doesnt have to be, because he has the business sense to listen to good advice
and just the fact that he is a non nonsense guy helps america on the world stage, and at home. Does anyone think that netanyahu would pull his gak if the Don was in charge ? You think putin would laugh at the Don ?
he is a strong leader, and thats precisely what america needs right now

Another point people bring up seemingly convinced that Trump would surround himself with good peeps...


Still on the #NeverTrump, #NeverHillary camp.


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Trump says his ban on Muslims entering the USA will contain exceptions for certain individuals, following the election of Sadiq Khan as Mayor Of London. Khan was planning on visiting the USA in order to see community programs in action in NY and Chicago, in the hope that ideas could be swapped.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/10/donald-trump-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-exception-muslim-ban

I think that it's embarrassing for the USA that this idea of banning Muslims from entering is still being considered, and unworthy of any presidential candidate, be they Republican or Democrat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 08:44:20


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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Trump says his ban on Muslims entering the USA will contain exceptions for certain individuals, following the lection of Sadiq Khan as Mayor Of London

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/10/donald-trump-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-exception-muslim-ban

I think that it's embarrassing for the USA that this idea of banning Muslims from entering is still being considered, and unworthy of any presidential candidate, be they Republican or Democrat.


I think we're all pretty much aware of how much of a fething idiot Trump is lol.

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 whembly wrote:

Still on the #NeverTrump, #NeverHillary camp.



Just out of curiosity, have you read this piece by David Horowitz...


http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...trump-pouters/

I've read some pf Horowitz's books (like Destructive Generation).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/10 10:26:44


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The embarrasment is the large number of people who agree with him.

Admittedly in the UK it's the same, but we don't have a constitution that forbids religious discrimination. In the USA it will be a lot of the same people relying on the 2nd amendment to protect their guns while denying the separation clause.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
The embarrasment is the large number of people who agree with him.

Admittedly in the UK it's the same, but we don't have a constitution that forbids religious discrimination. In the USA it will be a lot of the same people relying on the 2nd amendment to protect their guns while denying the separation clause.


Let's say for arguments sake that Trump is elected. Would love to be a fly on the wall when Trump explains his Muslim ban to America's close ally, Saudi Arabia

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